RoW Rhythms vs. Mistborn Rhythms

[TheDomanreiter]

So here's my idea.

Remember how Navani could faintly feel the rhythms only when she was touching a large amount of Stormlight? Thus proving the rhythms really do come from it? 

Well, in Mistborn, burning Bronze let a Mistborn hear the Rhythms of other allomancers, therefore giving them the ability to tell which metal they were using.

Coincidence? Correlation? Thoughts?

[StanLemon]

Brandon has underlying aspects of his magic systems and it does seem he's trying some threads with the RoW. Brandon has said a Seeker could hear the Rhythms of Roshar so it does seem all Investiture seems to possess Rhythms 

My personal hypothesis on why Roshar has such prevalent Rhythms is because it is so heavily Invested from High Storms

Edited December 20, 2020 by StanLemon

[Theoryspren]

I agree if the Rhythms come from Investiture it makes since that Roshar, which has an almost endless supply of Investiture has a lot more Rhythms.

[ZenBossanova]

This also brings up the idea of creating hybrid investiture among any of the 16. 

If you could make Honor+Harmony light, what would it do? Could Zahel do something unique with Honor+Endowment light? 

[Proletariat]

Huh. Thinking about it the idea of Rhythms applying for all Shards across the Cosmere gives a whole extra punny spin on Harmony's name - the hybrid Rhythms, and their lights, are literally produced by two people singing them in harmony together. 

[Honorless]

Yup! And unlike the case of Stormlight and Voidlight, Preservation and Ruin's Investiture did repel one another and annihilate one another upon contact! Wonder what that might imply...

[Raven Wilder]

Since reading Rhythm of War, I've been wanting to see if a bunch of singers chanting the Rhythm of Anxiety or the Rhythm of Joy at a Hemalurgic construct could take control of them the same way that Emotional Allomancy can.

[IndigoAjah]

Just as all Shards seem to produce Godmetals, I'm sure they all have Godrhythms too. 

 

I like this line of reasoning. Surely the Well of Ascension's Beat that Vin heard is Preservation's Rhythm? Maybe, as Bronze can pick up the difference in Allomatic Metals being burned, it can also be used to distinguish between different Surges being used? And Copperclouds can stop you doing that, and block Listeners/Fused from listening to the Rhythms on Roshar?

[Knight of Iron]

8 hours ago, Honorless said:

Yup! And unlike the case of Stormlight and Voidlight, Preservation and Ruin's Investiture did repel one another and annihilate one another upon contact! Wonder what that might imply...

Now, this is interesting. Harmonium itself is incredibly explosive due to this reason, I think. Does this mean that... anti-Investiture is not necessarily a new type of Investiture, but merely an opposite Investiture. And so Ruin and Preseervation directly annihilate one another? They are both anti-Investitures to each other?

[IndigoAjah]

6 minutes ago, Knight of Iron said:

Now, this is interesting. Harmonium itself is incredibly explosive due to this reason, I think. Does this mean that... anti-Investiture is not necessarily a new type of Investiture, but merely an opposite Investiture. And so Ruin and Preseervation directly annihilate one another? They are both anti-Investitures to each other?

So, if the (very possible though I don't really like it - I prefer 4 groups by Type of Intent) theory that every Shard has its opposite is true, then this means they've played, with say AntiVoidlight, the Rhythm and made the Light of, say Devotion... (My proposed opposite to Odium)

 

Could that be used to tap magic systems like the AonDor on Roshar?

[Knight of Iron]

2 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

So, if the (very possible though I don't really like it - I prefer 4 groups by Type of Intent) theory that every Shard has its opposite is true, then this means they've played, with say AntiVoidlight, the Rhythm and made the Light of, say Devotion... (My proposed opposite to Odium)

 

Could that be used to tap magic systems like the AonDor on Roshar?

I don’t have time to look for it now, but I believe there is a WoB that not all the Shards are opposite each other.

However, he did say that it was possible for Adonalsium in 16 completely different pieces than they did, which could imply even if there isn’t an opposite, that one isn’t possible. Hence brand new anti light

[IndigoAjah]

1 minute ago, Knight of Iron said:

I don’t have time to look for it now, but I believe there is a WoB that not all the Shards are opposite each other.

However, he did say that it was possible for Adonalsium in 16 completely different pieces than they did, which could imply even if there isn’t an opposite, that one isn’t possible. Hence brand new anti light

Fair enough.

 

Still, with Rhythms and Light, do you think you could artificially create (if you knew, say, Devotion's Rhythm from careful listening on Sel) a non-Rosharan Shard's Investiture on Roshar or elsewhere and hence use AonDor off Sel? That would be a game changer. We know you can use the Allomatic applications of Godmetals off Scadrial, and on Scadrial without the Shard themselves being present. 

[mathiau]

8 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

I like this line of reasoning. Surely the Well of Ascension's Beat that Vin heard is Preservation's Rhythm? Maybe, as Bronze can pick up the difference in Allomatic Metals being burned, it can also be used to distinguish between different Surges being used? And Copperclouds can stop you doing that, and block Listeners/Fused from listening to the Rhythms on Roshar?

Yes for bronze and yes for copperclouds.

As seekers can hear the rhythms, probably yes for Preservation's Rhythm

Actually, A-bronze and A-copper have a lot of additional applications when out of Scadrial

[Ishar]

8 hours ago, Knight of Iron said:

I don’t have time to look for it now, but I believe there is a WoB that not all the Shards are opposite each other.

There's a couple. Here's one, and here's another.

8 hours ago, Knight of Iron said:

he did say that it was possible for Adonalsium in 16 completely different pieces than they did, which could imply even if there isn’t an opposite, that one isn’t possible. Hence brand new anti light

I find this particularly interesting, especially when you look at what actually distinguishes shards, and how anti-lights are/were made. What distinguishes Shards mainly is intent. So the idea that you take a Shards light, isolate it from all sound/rhythms, then give it a different sound to change it to anti-light implies that intent is held in sound/rhythms, and that investiture holds intent by holding sounds/rhythms. I am pretty sure that if this were the case, it would open a very large can of worms about intent in the Cosmere. This makes me wonder if sound/rhythms were used in the process of creating Nightblood.

Edit: I just found a thread that appears to be exactly about the larger role of Rhythms and Identity in the Cosmere, but it contains Dawnshard spoilers, and as I have yet to read Dawnshard, I am not going to be looking at that thread yet.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Ishar

[IndigoAjah]

21 minutes ago, Ishar said:

There's a couple. Here's one, and here's another.

I find this particularly interesting, especially when you look at what actually distinguishes shards, and how anti-lights are/were made. What distinguishes Shards mainly is intent. So the idea that you take a Shards light, isolate it from all sound/rhythms, then give it a different sound to change it to anti-light implies that intent is held in sound/rhythms, and that investiture holds intent by holding sounds/rhythms. I am pretty sure that if this were the case, it would open a very large can of worms about intent in the Cosmere. This makes me wonder if sound/rhythms were used in the process of creating Nightblood.

Edit: I just found a thread that appears to be exactly about the larger role of Rhythms and Identity in the Cosmere, but it contains Dawnshard spoilers, and as I have yet to read Dawnshard, I am not going to be looking at that thread yet.

Strongly implies that they are all paired though with his choice of phrasing...

[StanLemon]

2 hours ago, mathiau said:

Yes for bronze and yes for copperclouds.

As seekers can hear the rhythms, probably yes for Preservation's Rhythm

Actually, A-bronze and A-copper have a lot of additional applications when out of Scadrial

A-Copper also has an unspecified effect on spren. Maybe it messes the Rhythms of their Investiture causing an effect like The Siblings/Void Fabrial dampening field? Though I doubt as strongly 

Also, maybe Copper protects from Rioting/Soothing is it attunes and amplifies/dampens people with specific Rhythms and Copper might block that

[Knight of Iron]

21 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

Fair enough.

Still, with Rhythms and Light, do you think you could artificially create (if you knew, say, Devotion's Rhythm from careful listening on Sel) a non-Rosharan Shard's Investiture on Roshar or elsewhere and hence use AonDor off Sel? That would be a game changer. We know you can use the Allomatic applications of Godmetals off Scadrial, and on Scadrial without the Shard themselves being present. 

So I refreshed myself on how anti-Light is actually created, and I believe this could maybe be possible. The Coppermind mentions "dampening" the natural vibration of the light first, so you'd have to be producing the identical yet anti-Stormlight rhythm with a sphere. Then it has to be isolated from hearing its Shard's pure tone (which a vacuum would do, as there is no sound whatsoever).

And so then it could the Intent of the Investiture itself could be rewritten. I really like this relationship between the Rhythm of Investiture and the Intent of Investiture.

And I just realized this could be close to the official conversion method between types of Investiture! Perhaps we can turn Stormlight into Breaths, now.

[NumuhukumakiakiaiaIunamor]

28 minutes ago, Knight of Iron said:

So I refreshed myself on how anti-Light is actually created, and I believe this could maybe be possible. The Coppermind mentions "dampening" the natural vibration of the light first, so you'd have to be producing the identical yet anti-Stormlight rhythm with a sphere. Then it has to be isolated from hearing its Shard's pure tone (which a vacuum would do, as there is no sound whatsoever).

And so then it could the Intent of the Investiture itself could be rewritten. I really like this relationship between the Rhythm of Investiture and the Intent of Investiture.

And I just realized this could be close to the official conversion method between types of Investiture! Perhaps we can turn Stormlight into Breaths, now.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Navani only create anti-lights and combination lights? As far as I remember she didn't turn one type of light directly into another. Or am I misremembering?

[Knight of Iron]

1 minute ago, NumuhukumakiakiaiaIunamor said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Navani only create anti-lights and combination lights? As far as I remember she didn't turn one type of light directly into another. Or am I misremembering?

You're remembering correctly, we're just hypothesizing here.

[NumuhukumakiakiaiaIunamor]

3 minutes ago, Knight of Iron said:

You're remembering correctly, we're just hypothesizing here.

Sorry lol.

Can you remember when Navani was experimenting with light through a prism, and separating the different components. could anything be done with that now we know a rhythm needs to be involved? obvously at the time she hadn't combined lights to make towerlight or antilight etc

Edited December 23, 2020 by NumuhukumakiakiaiaIunamor
words

[Ishar]

11 hours ago, NumuhukumakiakiaiaIunamor said:

Can you remember when Navani was experimenting with light through a prism, and separating the different components. could anything be done with that now we know a rhythm needs to be involved? obvously at the time she hadn't combined lights to make towerlight or antilight etc

I mean, I am not sure what would be done. The prism thing felt more to me like a simple application of real-world light physics. It does bring up some questions about wavelengths of these different lights. Honestly though, I feel like if we go too far into this we are going to end up discussing some very complex wave-particle duality physics, and things get really complex really quickly.

[TheDomanreiter]

Also the fact that the real-life physics obviously will be tainted in a fantasy world.

[Honorless]

I wonder if the beats/pulses of the Well of Ascension is the pure tone/Rhythm of Preservation

[Kingsdaughter613]

12 hours ago, Honorless said:

I wonder if the beats/pulses of the Well of Ascension is the pure tone/Rhythm of Preservation

Makes sense.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

15 hours ago, Honorless said:

I wonder if the beats/pulses of the Well of Ascension is the pure tone/Rhythm of Preservation

Seems like it:

Quote

Menderbug

Is the Well's pulsing a 'pure tone of Scadrial'?

Brandon Sanderson

Yup!

Miscellaneous 2020 (Nov. 30, 2020)

Probably bronzepulses too:

Quote

MoriWillow

Is that tone and rhythm stuff universal to the Shards and Investiture elsewhere?

Brandon Sanderson

The tones can be expanded to other Shards and Invested Arts around the cosmere.

dIvorrap

Are the Allomantic pulses a Seeker hears (like drum beats) related to the tones of Preservation, then?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they are.

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 22, 2020)