Master Silver Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 8 hours ago, Frustration said: Not even close There are only 16 shards no more no less. It's not the amount of investiture, it's the shard. Bound to what? But there are certain thresholds of holding enough investiture from a particular shard that changes you. For instance in the Mistborn series you have mistings and Mistborn. You even have Mistborns that are stronger than others. Eventually we see what happens when invested enough. Breath seems to be the same way with different levels. the 10th heightening being the highest that we know. But we we call both the tenth heightening and The Lord Ruler from the Mistoborn series, Slivers right? The Stormfather has been verified to have absorbed Tanavast's cognitive shadow (or merged with it), making Dalinar hold the most intact piece of the Shard of Honor. The Heralds are likely next, because of Honor blades, followed by Kaladin. We can't be certain if their is anything exceptional about Syl (the ancient daughter) besides being the only one left, but she could be qualitatively more connected to Honor than the other Honor spren. So yes, there is a point of no return where you pick up the Shard because you are so highly invested by that particular shard. Also there is a point when by being invested enough you fundamentally change. Again Breath is a great example of this. So Dalinar picking up another huge piece of investiture could change him. How we don't know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 15 hours ago, Master Silver said: But there are certain thresholds of holding enough investiture from a particular shard that changes you. For instance in the Mistborn series you have mistings and Mistborn. You even have Mistborns that are stronger than others. Eventually we see what happens when invested enough. Breath seems to be the same way with different levels. the 10th heightening being the highest that we know. But we we call both the tenth heightening and The Lord Ruler from the Mistoborn series, Slivers right? The Stormfather has been verified to have absorbed Tanavast's cognitive shadow (or merged with it), making Dalinar hold the most intact piece of the Shard of Honor. The Heralds are likely next, because of Honor blades, followed by Kaladin. We can't be certain if their is anything exceptional about Syl (the ancient daughter) besides being the only one left, but she could be qualitatively more connected to Honor than the other Honor spren. So yes, there is a point of no return where you pick up the Shard because you are so highly invested by that particular shard. Also there is a point when by being invested enough you fundamentally change. Again Breath is a great example of this. So Dalinar picking up another huge piece of investiture could change him. How we don't know. A large amount of investiture will stretch your soul, which is why you see Savants. However you seem to have a misunderstanding, no person following the basic pattern of a magic system will ever ascend. A shard holds 1/16 of all the investiture/matter/energy in the entire cosmere. Even to get enough to come even close to being able to seem like a Shard you would need so much investiture it's not even funny. For Breath this would be in the Decacillions, maybe even higher For Spren this is likely in the hundreds of thousands of bonds if not more. Lerasium is a bit different as it gives connection and investiture but you still need enough to become a savant, so at least a good month of non-stop burning And even if you did get a lot of investiture you would never become more than a sliver, investiture is not enough you need a Connection to the Shard in particular. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, Frustration said: A large amount of investiture will stretch your soul, which is why you see Savants. However you seem to have a misunderstanding, no person following the basic pattern of a magic system will ever ascend. A shard holds 1/16 of all the investiture/matter/energy in the entire cosmere. Even to get enough to come even close to being able to seem like a Shard you would need so much investiture it's not even funny. For Breath this would be in the Decacillions, maybe even higher For Spren this is likely in the hundreds of thousands of bonds if not more. Lerasium is a bit different as it gives connection and investiture but you still need enough to become a savant, so at least a good month of non-stop burning And even if you did get a lot of investiture you would never become more than a sliver, investiture is not enough you need a Connection to the Shard in particular. Thanks for the good (and kind) explanation. I spend most of time when it comes to the Cosmere in Stormlight Archives. But your explanation makes sense. Taking up a Shard would connect you to all of that Shard, 1/16 of the total power in the universe. Good example with Breath. So the god-King, whatever he is called that makes things lose their color, he is only at the 10,000-20,000 breath correct? What is Lerasium by the way, I don't remember? I do like systematizing where people are. Calling it power scaling would open a can of worms so let's not do that. Still, in Stormlight Archives their does seem to be a bit of power scaling going on as they discuss in RoW. Soldier vs Singer, Shard bearer vs Regal, Radiant vs Fused, Herald vs Unmade (maybe), Honor vs Odium. Bondsmiths seem to be somewhere between Unmade and Herald, but they certainly break the mold. Radiants of the 4th ideal also seem to have a significant edge over most Fused, rendering Fused technology somewhat ineffective. I can see Ishar somehow folding Jezrien's honor blade into Syl and Kaladin somehow making her a super spren. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 6 hours ago, Master Silver said: Thanks for the good (and kind) explanation. I spend most of time when it comes to the Cosmere in Stormlight Archives. But your explanation makes sense. Taking up a Shard would connect you to all of that Shard, 1/16 of the total power in the universe. Good example with Breath. So the god-King, whatever he is called that makes things lose their color, he is only at the 10,000-20,000 breath correct? What is Lerasium by the way, I don't remember? Suesebron has about 50,000 breaths. And Lerasium is from Mistborn. 6 hours ago, Master Silver said: I do like systematizing where people are. Calling it power scaling would open a can of worms so let's not do that. Still, in Stormlight Archives their does seem to be a bit of power scaling going on as they discuss in RoW. Soldier vs Singer, Shard bearer vs Regal, Radiant vs Fused, Herald vs Unmade (maybe), Honor vs Odium. Bondsmiths seem to be somewhere between Unmade and Herald, but they certainly break the mold. Radiants of the 4th ideal also seem to have a significant edge over most Fused, rendering Fused technology somewhat ineffective. I can see Ishar somehow folding Jezrien's honor blade into Syl and Kaladin somehow making her a super spren. I mean that's theoretically possible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 On 7/14/2021 at 8:13 PM, Master Silver said: The Stormfather has been verified to have absorbed Tanavast's cognitive shadow (or merged with it), making Dalinar hold the most intact piece of the Shard of Honor. I mean, I would say the Stormfather holds it, not Dalinar. He just lets Dalinar use it sometimes. (But the Nahel bond merging souls does make things weird.) On 7/14/2021 at 8:13 PM, Master Silver said: We can't be certain if their is anything exceptional about Syl (the ancient daughter) besides being the only one left, but she could be qualitatively more connected to Honor than the other Honor spren. I don't see why that would be the case, she was still made by the Stormfather, just a really long time ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apepi Posted July 26, 2021 Report Share Posted July 26, 2021 I would like Honor to be reforged into a different intent. Like virtue or glory. It would be a really cool thing to see a shard change it's intent to something of a similar meaning, like perhaps Odium could be made into passion if made the right way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Alm81 Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Kal will ascend. In RoW, while Kal was climbing the out side of the tower Brandon used the words "as Kaladin ascended" it could've been 'climbed' that's my theory and i'm sticking to it 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unite Them Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 I think Dalinar will take up the shard of Unity. The shard of Honor was shattered and in that shattering I think it coalesces back around someone who imbodies the original intent. However since it is being reformed within that individual the shard is also remade more in that persons character. Meaning that the shattered shard that was Honor is distilling into Dalinar as the shard Unity shaped by Dalinar's character. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalak_ Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 On 17/12/2020 at 7:32 AM, metaldragon said: Everyone seems to think that Dalinar will take up Honor since he bonded the storm father but I think Kalidin has a much stronger case. "Honor is dead but I'll see what I can do" Being called the son of Tanavast by the storm father and the sibling. Has embodied Honor for his entire life always choosing the honorable path no matter the circumstances. Has a growing following that has "faith" in him and use his brand as almost a religious symbol. Honor is Dead but I'm convinced we'll see what Kaladin can do. If Dalinar holds a shard it would be the shard of War. Hes the only character so far that has been chosen by both odium as a champion and by honor with the storm father accepting him. I predict. 1. Dalinar loses to Odiums challenger 2. Kaladin ascends to honor. 3. Honor kamikaze into odium leaving Both shards and Dalinar picking them up with his new shard making him the big bad and free to leave Roshar. Who better to carry the Shard of war than Dalinar? What better opposite to Harmony? It would be pretty sick to see dalinar do a harmony 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unite Them Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 On 7/26/2021 at 11:49 AM, apepi said: I would like Honor to be reforged into a different intent. Like virtue or glory. It would be a really cool thing to see a shard change it's intent to something of a similar meaning, like perhaps Odium could be made into passion if made the right way. or Unity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 So, Kaladin picking up the Shard to die wiping out Odium, would mirror another series too much. Taravangian and Dalinar have had a back and forth thing going for a while now. So in that case it would make sense for Dalinar to ascend and continue to oppose Odium. We also have the fact that Kaladin has served under Dalinar since the end of book one. So Dalinar ascending and Kaladin becoming the leader of the heralds would preserve that pattern. So that is on the one side. On the other side, we see Dalinar believing in Kaladin, along with the whole Tower. Very similar to how people believed in a certain Mistborn. But I am convinced that their will be some twist and Brandon will not repeat the same patter. I want some of our favorite characters to become immortal, but I don't want Kaladin to be omnipotent. I don't think it suits him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unite Them Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 If Kaladin were to ascend would he still be bound to his radiant oaths? That would be wild honor... But sworn to protect those that can't protect themselves... He'd be the god hero of the cosmere 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlit Shard Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 (edited) I think Taravangian will end up forcing Dalinar to break to deal somehow and then Kaladin ascends to Honor and fights Todium to defend the Cosmere. Edit: Sorry I just realized how long ago this had ended. Edited September 29, 2023 by Stormlit Shard 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinders Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 I like that idea, but my theory is that Dalinar will Bondsmith Honor back together somehow. Thus setting up for re-bonding Adonalism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trav Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 On 17/12/2020 at 8:32 AM, metaldragon said: always choosing the honorable path no matter the circumstances You reading a different book, lad? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendalloy Savant Posted October 11, 2023 Report Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) Hopping onto this revived thread with my thoughts. Meta-wise, I really don't think B$ would pull another similar shard moment with our SA shards. As I'm thinking towards the end of the cosmere, it would be really great to have a meeting of all the Shards (either virtually calling in to communicate with each other) or as a final showdown. It would be interesting to me if it's still a group of 16. Since we know one person can hold two shards, it got me thinking as my brain wanted to fill in the gap of a shard, what if we split a shard into two shards? What if Odium loses the challenge: His backup is to do whatever is necessary to break out of his bonds keeping him on Roshar. By committing self-splitting ("split-puku"? "Sui-split"? Name pending) he gets out of the technicalities limiting him by becoming Passion and Scorn. Now free of Roshar, but split apart, one of these semi-shards seek to reabsorb the other's Investiture, while the other attempts to flee. I seem to recall Brandon saying a splitting of a shard into two with different intents is possible but as of now it is unclear how it could happen. It would be a wild ending to Stormlight though. Either SA5 or 10. Edited October 11, 2023 by Bendalloy Savant 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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