Domo4448

Oaths going forward

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Navani has bonded The Sibling.

What do you think her ideals will be?

 

Knowing Dalinar's ideals 

 

"I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together"

and

 "will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man. "

We can know That her oaths will also follow uninification but with the personal twist ,so maybe it'll be uniting the people of The Tower or maybe smaller groups, like how she  unites a group of scholars. Something about being an intellectual leader for sure.

Also for her third ideal maybe recognizing the damage her light/Anti-light advancements have/will cause to spren. so something like "will take responsibility for what my discoveries can do...." 

 

Edited by Chaos
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I think Navani will be about bring men and spren together. I don't know what Night Watcher does. 

 

edit: My real question is, what can Navani do with higher oaths that she can't do now? If the Tower or Sibling is functioning properly again, and he doesn't need to teach her fabrial technology (presumably this is in part what the Sibling along with the heralds did before), than aside from becoming more efficient with stormlight what good will it do? Tower is again presumably back to 100% minus the damage done by the recent fighting. So how does Navani swearing the higher level ideas help? 

Edited by Master Silver
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Maybe she will bring all women together? I just don't want to get warning points, so I will NOT write my sarcastic reason for it ;)

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7 hours ago, Domo4448 said:

Also for her third ideal maybe recognizing the damage her light/Anti-light advancements have/will cause to spren. so something like "will take responsibility for what my discoveries can do...." 

We have a wob that the universal part of the third ideal is the “I will rise each time a better man.” The taking responsibility is Dalinar’s personal twist on it.

I find it likely that Navani’s second oath will be nearly identical to Dalinar’s. Just because that is a general Bondsmith thing and most second oaths we’ve seen have been identical.

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Can Navani open perpendicularity as well? I'm not leaning much into this because we already have route to Shadesmar from Urithiru so most probably it would be rather noncoherent. Maybe IIRC, during a conversation with Reboniel, we saw that Navani was really interested in travelling to different worlds especially Ashyn after Reboniel told that they came from there. Maybe we can see her travelling to Ashyn in next book to learn more about Surges and how they destroyed it. 

I also think Navani would be very significant in freeing BAM because Melishi was the one who trapped her when bonded to Sibling and Navani undoing what he did would not only free our Unmade but also gain Sibling's acceptance, something like, 'I will Unite those who are meant to be bonded'/ 'I will Unite those who are meant to be free rather than binding'. 

She also has a lot of things to work on Lights, and we will see her finding Rhythms to unite Lifelight and Voidlight as well. 

I don't think she will swear her third Ideal in next book. Because we already have Dalinar/Kaladin/Szeth/Jasnah/Venli/Rlain/Renarin and other Radiants Ideals lined up already. Plus it would be too parallel to Dalinar swearing his ideals during Oathbringer and Navani has more route than just jumping in heroically to save everyone. She will be one helping the heroes with her knowledge. My bet is Dalinar will deal with Oathpact while Navani will deal with freeing BAM. 

Edited by Ramona Tehradin
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Hi, you cannot have spoilers in topic titles. I have removed the spoiler.

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I think one of her ideals will be "I will bring order from chaos" - she said this multiple times throughout the book, it seems to be a major driver for her character, and it has the feel of a radiant oath to me. I also like the idea of her parallelling Dalinar's "I will bring men together" with  "I will bring humans and spren together" or something in that vein.

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On 12/15/2020 at 3:20 PM, Master Silver said:

I think Navani will be about bring men and spren together. I don't know what Night Watcher does. 

 

edit: My real question is, what can Navani do with higher oaths that she can't do now? If the Tower or Sibling is functioning properly again, and he doesn't need to teach her fabrial technology (presumably this is in part what the Sibling along with the heralds did before), than aside from becoming more efficient with stormlight what good will it do? Tower is again presumably back to 100% minus the damage done by the recent fighting. So how does Navani swearing the higher level ideas help? 

IIRC, the Dustbringers are the only order that need to swear higher Ideals to unlock Surgebindings. I'm pretty sure that swearing the higher Ideals just makes Navani's powers more efficient, it doesn't unlock anything new. (though she might be able to manifest Plate at her Fourth Ideal). 

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16 hours ago, ReaderAt2046 said:

IIRC, the Dustbringers are the only order that need to swear higher Ideals to unlock Surgebindings. I'm pretty sure that swearing the higher Ideals just makes Navani's powers more efficient, it doesn't unlock anything new. (though she might be able to manifest Plate at her Fourth Ideal). 

And that is sort of my conundrum. We have seen with Kaladin and Shallan Radiants learn to use their powers, and this sort of has gone hand in hand with swearing new ideals. Kaladin's lashings and learning how to fall with style. Even in RoW we saw him learn to use adhesion much better. Same thing with Shallan and light weaving. She went from making singular light weavings to light weaving an army. I imagine she has her plate now even though we haven't seen it. If bonding the sibling and swearing higher ideals is supposed to go with discovering how to use fabrials (in a normal desolation cycle) having Navanii already as a master artifabrial scientist and scholar means that her journey will need to be different. Maybe she will learn about the nature of spren. I really hope it is well written and story telling doesn't take a back seat to some agenda.

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I think her second oath will come down to what she is swearing to unite. I suspect it will either be some combo of Humans/Spren/Listeners, or it will be the various types of Light.

Her third oath should probably have something to do with making things right with the Sibling and/or all Spren in relation to her work with fabrials.

As to what abilities she will gain as she levels up, I suspect that she will be able to use her powers to create the various combo Light types, and maybe even learn how to create anti-Light with her powers as part of the Avalanche in book 5. The caveat will be that she can only do it at the tower, good thing the contest of champs is happening there eh?

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On 12/17/2020 at 2:04 PM, Master Silver said:

And that is sort of my conundrum. We have seen with Kaladin and Shallan Radiants learn to use their powers, and this sort of has gone hand in hand with swearing new ideals. Kaladin's lashings and learning how to fall with style. Even in RoW we saw him learn to use adhesion much better. Same thing with Shallan and light weaving. She went from making singular light weavings to light weaving an army.

Swearing new ideals does make the use of powers more efficient.  Kaladin uses less power for the same lashings after the 3rd ideal than he did after just the first and second.   among other things that would make training easier.  likewise Shallan's ability to make an illusory army is less about being better at her powers and more about the being able to do more with the same amount of light (also as I recall she had access to a ridiculous amount of light in that scene, and illusions are one of th lowest power uses of stormlight that we have seen)

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On 12/19/2020 at 1:00 PM, Dunkum said:

Swearing new ideals does make the use of powers more efficient.  Kaladin uses less power for the same lashings after the 3rd ideal than he did after just the first and second.   among other things that would make training easier.  likewise Shallan's ability to make an illusory army is less about being better at her powers and more about the being able to do more with the same amount of light (also as I recall she had access to a ridiculous amount of light in that scene, and illusions are one of th lowest power uses of stormlight that we have seen)

Swearing new ideals certainly does make them more efficient. And perhaps it is just that the Radiants specifically Kaladin and Shallan (the two main radiants we have seen develope) have gotten better with their powers due to experience which happens to coincide with swearing more ideals. Dalinar has not seemed to progress as much as the other Radiants in terms of learning his powers, but understanding the powers of a bond smith may be more complicated. It just makes me wonder what Navani will be able to do. I think the Tower is actually not one Bondsmiths work, but the collective work of all the Bondsmiths that were ever bonded to the Sibling. Therefore, although Navani might be able to give it some upgrades, I don't see it being an impregnable fortress being relevant. But if they are able to grow enough food their to supply the remaining cities with Oathgates, even if they get cut off and besieged, that would be big. What can anyone learn in 10 days though? 

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