theory (THEORY) Moash becoming Bondsmith squire

[mbondy]

I thought about this while thinking about how Sanderson has treated other "inexcusable actions"

OB spoilers below:

Spoiler

Think about how young Dalinar acted in OB. He lived for violence, was fueled by hatred to burn The Rift, lived with the guilt of killing his wife, got a shard to suck away the pain.

RoW Spoilers:

Spoiler

Now think about Moash. He lived for revenge, was fueled by hatred to kill Elhokar, lived with the guilt of betraying Kaladin, got a shard to suck away the pain.

A lot of similarities right? I dismissed the similarities since there aren't any Bondsmith spren I see vibing with Moash but then Sanderson released that Knight Radiant order quiz, and he spoke about how even though they don't become radiant, Bondsmith squires still swore oaths simply for the ideals they represent. I could see Moash working under the current bondsmith in order to repent

Spoiler

similar to what is happening with Szeth.

Bondsmith Ideals really go along with Moash and would be perfect for a redemption arc. 

 

Of course I don't like Moash for what he's done, but Dalinar's done just as bad and he's my favourite character in fiction, so the presentation is really the reason I forgive one over the other. The presentation as Moash as a villain makes me think this is unlikely but I just thought this would be a cool way for his story to go

Edited December 15, 2020 by mbondy
Capitalizing Elhokar

[LuckyJim]

I dunno, if we're going by actions alone, Moash is nowhere close to the worst character in the series. That being said, it's pretty clear at this point that Sanderson has no interest in making Moash anything more than a vessel for the audience's hatred. Moash is depicted as evil incarnate, when even the Lady of Pains and the new god of hatred have had moments for the audience to sympathize with them.

Regardless, even if Moash were able to develop as a character, I don't think it would work out. The Alethi are notoriously unforgiving of regicide, and I don't think Navani would appreciate her son's killer being her husband's new squire. Not to mention, the core of what drove Moash to become a villain in the first place was his betrayal at the hands of kings and nobles who abused their power for personal gain. He's become completely disilusioned with a society that elevates one population at the expense of the other based on nothing but eye color, something serious would have to happen for him to be able to reconcile becoming a subordinate to one of the kings of the monarchy that allowed his grandparents to be thrown away so easily.

Edited December 15, 2020 by LuckyJim

[Honorless]

52 minutes ago, LuckyJim said:

I dunno, if we're going by actions alone, Moash is nowhere close to the worst character in the series. That being said, it's pretty clear at this point that Sanderson has no interest in making Moash anything more than a vessel for the audience's hatred. Moash is depicted as evil incarnate, when even the Lady of Pains and the new god of hatred have had moments for the audience to sympathize with them.

That being said, even if Moash were able to develop as a character, I don't think it would work out. The Alethi are notoriously unforgiving of regicide, and I don't think Navani would appreciate her son's killer being her husband's new squire. Not to mention, the core of what drove Moash to become a villain in the first place was his betrayal at the hands of kings and nobles who abused their power for personal gain. He's become completely disilusioned with a society that elevates one population at the expense of the other based on nothing but eye color, something serious would have to happen for him to be able to reconcile becoming a subordinate to one of the kings of the monarchy that allowed his grandparents to be thrown away so easily.

This.

[Kingsdaughter613]

Maybe squire to an Odium Bondsmith.

[Koloss17]

17 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Maybe squire to an Odium Bondsmith.

Can odium have a bondsmith? I dunno if that is possible. Would it be a bind with some unmade?

[Kingsdaughter613]

15 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Can odium have a bondsmith? I dunno if that is possible. Would it be a bind with some unmade?

There is a theory that BAM is Odium’s bondspren.

[Infinity Sliver]

3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

There is a theory that BAM is Odium’s bondspren.

really? I mean it does make sense but you'd think the old radiants would have noted it somewhere,although,we have like 6 more books so anything is possible

[Kingsdaughter613]

5 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

really? I mean it does make sense but you'd think the old radiants would have noted it somewhere,although,we have like 6 more books so anything is possible

My theory is that she only became this once Odium began fully Investing in Roshar. That’s why she could suddenly create Voidlight and Connect to the Singers.

[mbondy]

10 hours ago, LuckyJim said:

I dunno, if we're going by actions alone, Moash is nowhere close to the worst character in the series. That being said, it's pretty clear at this point that Sanderson has no interest in making Moash anything more than a vessel for the audience's hatred. Moash is depicted as evil incarnate, when even the Lady of Pains and the new god of hatred have had moments for the audience to sympathize with them.

Regardless, even if Moash were able to develop as a character, I don't think it would work out. The Alethi are notoriously unforgiving of regicide, and I don't think Navani would appreciate her son's killer being her husband's new squire. Not to mention, the core of what drove Moash to become a villain in the first place was his betrayal at the hands of kings and nobles who abused their power for personal gain. He's become completely disilusioned with a society that elevates one population at the expense of the other based on nothing but eye color, something serious would have to happen for him to be able to reconcile becoming a subordinate to one of the kings of the monarchy that allowed his grandparents to be thrown away so easily.

I agree that something crazy would have to happen to get Moash back, and something equally crazy would have to happen to have Navani accept him. Do you guys want a redemption for Moash? Given how he represents the path Kaladin could have went down, I kinda want him to be redeemed as like a Sasuke to Kal's Naruto type way.

[Hoid the Former Drifter]

13 hours ago, mbondy said:

A lot of similarities right? I dismissed the similarities since there aren't any Bondsmith spren I see vibing with Moash but then Sanderson released that Knight Radiant order quiz, and he spoke about how even though they don't become radiant, Bondsmith squires still swore oaths simply for the ideals they represent. I could see Moash working under the current bondsmith in order to repent

can a person with an honorblade also be a squire/radiant? this could get really crazy (imagine shallan with the windrunner honorblade for example) aside from having two shardblades this could mean four powers, the resonances of each order, and some other weird resonances between two powers that a radiant will never have both of (gravity and soulcasting, for example) and maybe a resonance between each full power set.

[mbondy]

1 minute ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

can a person with an honorblade also be a squire/radiant? this could get really crazy (imagine shallan with the windrunner honorblade for example) aside from having two shardblades this could mean four powers, the resonances of each order, and some other weird resonances between two powers that a radiant will never have both of (gravity and soulcasting, for example) and maybe a resonance between each full power set.

Yo that'd be so sick, I think in the past Sanderson's RAFO'd whether you can bond two spren (DAWNSHARD SPOILER)

Spoiler

(Huio might end up a windwinner and dustbringer because he strongly exhibits dustbringer traits)

so having multiple surges could be even easier than getting an honourblade. If my crazy theory is right though, I'd imagine Moash would give up his honourblade but that doesn't negate the fact we could be seeing people with more than two surges in the coming books.

[Hoid the Former Drifter]

1 minute ago, mbondy said:

I think in the past Sanderson's RAFO'd whether you can bond two spren

Spoiler

shallan did but not two at the same time

 

[LuckyJim]

5 hours ago, mbondy said:

I agree that something crazy would have to happen to get Moash back, and something equally crazy would have to happen to have Navani accept him. Do you guys want a redemption for Moash? Given how he represents the path Kaladin could have went down, I kinda want him to be redeemed as like a Sasuke to Kal's Naruto type way.

I have complicated feelings on the topic. I originally found Moash interesting because it seemed like a major theme in his character was trying to fight back against oppression. The idea of Moash redemption appealed to me because it would involve validating his criticisms on the systemic injustice, and how everyone who supports this system without question is complicit in in that oppression. Now that it seems like he's just a evil guy only out for personal satisfaction, I don't find the idea as appealing, because it would probably be a more straightforward villain redemption.

On the subject of what a Moash redemption would even look like, before Oathbringer, my ideal future for Moash would have been one in which he joined the listeners. Rather than submit to a tyrannical god or tyrannical kings, he joins Venli in seeking true freedom. After Rhythm though, it doesn't seem likely to happen.

Edited December 15, 2020 by LuckyJim

[mbondy]

20 minutes ago, LuckyJim said:

I have complicated feelings on the topic. I originally found Moash interesting because it seemed like a major theme in his character was trying to fight back against oppression. The idea of Moash redemption appealed to me because it would involve validating his criticisms on the systemic injustice, and how everyone who supports this system without question is complicit in in that oppression. Now that it seems like he's just a evil guy only out for personal satisfaction, I'm don't find the idea as appealing, because it would probably be a more straightforward villain redemption.

On the subject of what a Moash redemption would even look like, before Oathbringer, my ideal future for Moash would have been one in which he joined the listeners. Rather than submit to a tyrannical god or tyrannical kings, he joins Venli in seeking true freedom. After Rhythm though, it doesn't seem likely to happen.

I liked the idea of him with the listeners too but agree that thats not gonna happen at this point. Dyou think Taravangian becoming Odium will change Moash's position among the fused? T has different motivations than Rayse so maybe he won't need a herald killer. Getting fired by Odium would bring all of Moash's feelings back which could spark some things. Moash suicide might be in the cards to represent the path Kal could have taken.

[mbondy]

41 minutes ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

  Reveal hidden contents

shallan did but not two at the same time

 

true. It might be different between different types of spren though (inkspren and honourspren not liking each other and all that). I hope it isnt since a dual knight radiant would be sick. Maybe if the surges overlap (lightweaver elsecaller combo being able to soulcast in two ways) there will be some mistborn style compounding.