Elsecaller_17.5

Does anyone still want a Moash redemption arc?

95 posts in this topic

I would much rather Moash be a hurdle for our heroes to overcome than a cliche "bad guy becomes good again" trope.

I decided that based on which character I care about more. Moash, or Kaladin and the Radiants? Moash doesn't even come close.

While a Moash redemption arc may possibly be satisfying if written well enough, I believe that Moash written as a villain can provide so much more depth to the overall story and characters, especially Kaladin.

Edited by HoidvsVoid
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Honestly I would prefer not, mainly because a lot of villains in recent media have been given a redemption arc, and while I love the concept of it I don't think every villain needs to become good in the end. It almost cheapens them. 

That saying, I would not complain about it if Brandon decided to give him one, if he could do it right, which I have confidence he has the abilities to do. 

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I don't have an opinion I feel like Moash might be set up for redemption, but every Stormlight book has been so different from the others, that I can't tell.

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I hope not. Moash is the most villanious character in the series. He is more of a villain than Sadeas, Amaram, even Rayse. The only one who comes close is Taravangian. And having Moash go through a redemption arc would be too predictable, too much of a "been there, done that" arc, and require too much time. He is much more interesting as the guy who constantly, despite having better options, chose to turn away from everything that the Radiants represent. The guy is the perfect anti-Radiant. 

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I think after Rhythm of War, that train has left completely. It would have been doable over the course of two Stormlight-sized books, even though a satisfying redemption arc is hard to do even under those conditions. But now, instead of taking a few steps in the right direction, he's only gotten worse. One book before a 10 year time jump is just not enough for such a journey, and if that book really spans 10 days, it's completely impossible, and I can't imagine Brandon being so delusional as to try it. It's fair to say that's not what he has in mind for him.

Although whatever it is that Brandon plans to do, it seems to be very important for us to hate him when it happens, given how much his depiction in Rhythm of War is aimed at making him seem as insufferable as possible. . .

Edited by Elegy
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I was super anti Moash redemption arc before RoW, and while I don't want him to get like, a Venli level backstory and redemption, I really feel like he could have a Darth Vader moment with Kaladin right as he dies, despite him having killed Teft. I know Brandon could do it. And it would really fit thematically with the series, that no one is so far gone they can't be forgiven.

It could also go the other way and give us some vengeance against him too and I cheer for that, but I know if Moash somehow died saving Kaladin, I'd probably cry still.

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It depends.

 

If he's used to fuel Nightblood for a few seconds as his very existence, his eternal soul, is destroyed forever, does that count?

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Kaladin easily could have gone down the path that Moash did, that's why it makes such a stark contrast the whole Kaladin vs Moash. Their ideals and beliefs were so close, and yet they've turned out so different. Written wonderfully.

There's also some of this going on with Dalinar and Taravangian. So close, but fine differences in their morals. They were friends once.

Truthfully, I like seeing how close the characters can become yet one turns out evil and one turns out good. A parallel arc, in a way.

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Up until the end of RoW I wanted Moash to be redeemed. The second that Teft died, Moash became my least favorite person in the Cosmere. He killed the best character in the Cosmere. Now my favorite character is dead. Moash can be locked away on Braize with Odium.

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2 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

If he's used to fuel Nightblood for a few seconds as his very existence, his eternal soul, is destroyed forever, does that count?

Eternal soul is arguable, but if he used Nightblood to do good in those few seconds, I'd argue that it does.

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11 minutes ago, Ookla the Unnamable said:

Eternal soul is arguable, but if he used Nightblood to do good in those few seconds, I'd argue that it does.

Yes, Moash destroyed himself beyond all hope of return. A VERY good deed indeed.

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Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Yes, Moash destroyed himself beyond all hope of return. A VERY good deed indeed.

Unless the God Beyond *cough Brandon cough* sees fit to bring him back!

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Just now, Ookla the Unnamable said:

Unless the God Beyond *cough Brandon cough* sees fit to bring him back!

Nope. Nightblood death is 100% dead. It kills on all realms.

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Not every character deserves redemption. 

After what he did in this book, Moash falls in this category. Sadaes and Amaran had more redeeming qualities than this monster. 

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I think that Moash is following in old Dalinar's footsteps. Moash is following the same path as Dalinar in his OB flashbacks. He lives for violence, does something irredeemable (killing elhokar for Moash, The Rift for Dalinar), tries to escape the pain (Odium feeling-sucking with Moash, Drug abuse and Cultivation memory-sucking with Dalinar). It is for this reason I think that Kaladin will bring Moash back to his side. Redemption is such a big theme in SA so him returnign would really be a powerful moment.

 

As I was writing about this, I realised how much young Dalinar and Moash have in common. It also made me think about how Brandon said the Bondsmith squires would swear oaths knowing they would gain nothing from them. Moash's story would resolve nicely with something like swearing of the bondsmith third ideal (if I must fall, I will rise a better man) as a squire under Dalinar.

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I had zero expectaions for Moash and was disappointed by  him in RoW

Edited by Ookla The Frustrated
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Not a redemption arc. That would take too much time and I don't want to see him as a villain that continues into the last 5 books.

A redemption death is most likely. He comes in an saves Kaladin from something, even something he may have caused, and dies in the process. This would be a good bookend on the character. Either that, or he continues to descend into compete madness and we get to "see" it through his blind eyes.

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7 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

That's it just wondering.

These words are not accepted. Never. 

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Oh god, I don't even know anymore. By the end of Oathbringer, I thought Moash was one of the most interesting characters in the series, but by the end of Rhythm of War I legitimately just wanted him to die because I just wanted it to be over already. His characterization is so insane that I'm convinced I totally misread him when I believed there was ever any nuance to the guy at all. I can't even guess why he's still alive at this point, villains in the cosmere rarely overstay their welcome, but Moash is just a joke at this point. There must be some purpose he still has to serve, but his character is probably just gonna get worse from here. It sucks, because he could have been a really interesting character, but he's only used as the hate-sink of the series.

I can't ever get on board with the "storm Moash" crowd, because I take more issue with the way he's written than the character himself, but I feel like he's been broken beyond repair at this point. I'd kind of like something good to come out of his character, but I feel like expecting anything at this point is just setting myself up for disappointment.

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Moash was wasted, he wasn't used as a villian, he wasn't even an antaganist, he was just kind of, there. I can't see how Brandon will use him now, because anything just ends up ruining something. Wasted potential, and otherwise just wasted.

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As long as the redemption arc involves Moash's body decomposing and fertilizing some nice flowers, I am ok with it. Anything else would be terrible.

 

Edit: A friend has made the valid point that mediocre flowers would also be acceptable.

Edited by Ishar
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Yeah but after Rhythm of War, I don't think it's happening

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7 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Moash was wasted, he wasn't used as a villian, he wasn't even an antaganist, he was just kind of, there. I can't see how Brandon will use him now, because anything just ends up ruining something. Wasted potential, and otherwise just wasted.

People,people,trust in Lord God Brandon,He'll pull through.

That aside,I didnt think he was wasted. Odium used him sparingly and from his point of view,it was a good tactic. We have to remember this is playing out as a general commanding his armies(or whatever is close to that). I think he's been set up well,and him been blind now should be very interesting indeed. Maybe hemalurgically spiked eyes for steelsight mwahahaha(i'm kinda hoping for this,with Todium and all)

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