Characters by the end of book 5

[Chiberty]

What are everyone's predictions/hopes for the states each of the main characters will be in at the end of book 5? Here's mine:

Kaladin - Survives to become Teft in the back half, still at 4th Ideal

Shallan - Dies (nothing against her character, she just seems most likely to me)

Dalinar - Dies, then becomes a Fused

Venli - (no clue)

Szeth - Survives, having sworn the 5th Ideal

Navani - Survives, but dies near the beginning of book 6, Rushu replacing her as Bondsmith

Adolin - Becomes worldhopper

Back half flashback characters - Survive

Some of these are predictions, but they're also just what I hope will happen.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Chiberty

[GroundPetrel]

Kaladin--survives, better than even chance he swears the fifth Ideal.  May end up working with Leshwi.  

Shallan--absorbs Radiant, begins really patching herself up.   

Dalinar--nearly storms up his oaths but figures it out after a heart to heart with Adolin.  

Navani--no clue but she makes something really cool.  Like a jetpack or something.  Or a Shardgun.  

Adolin: Gets his butt kicked by far more powerful enemies up and down the book,  eventually hashes things out with Dalinar, probably awakens Maya near the end with words like "I will never allow you to be forgotten", and then in the post-climax chapters where they're regrouping after the latest world-shattering event he just ducks out and takes her to Kaladin's group therapy.  I would call it 40-60 odds against him awakening Maya without the suspected BAM situation with Connection being fixed.  

Renarin: Is key to the plot somehow.  Better than even odds they unscrew the BAM situation and he and Glys are important there.  

Jasnah: Teams up with the Sebarials and unscrews the legal system some more.  I have no evidence to support this as a possible plot thread but it'd be awesome.  

TaravOdium: Outsmarts himself and becomes a villain ten thousand times worse than Rayse could ever hope to be.  High chance he kills or breaks Cultivation and may even take her power for himself, throwing Hoid for a big loop.  Whatever he does, everybody's plans are off the rails. 

Venli: Along with Leshwi, likely openly switches sides in an attempt to stop the war.   Becomes a straight up good person as her atonement reaches a climax.  

Leshwi: Openly defies TaravOdium and probably ends up being teeth-clenched teammates -> vitriolic best-buds with Kaladin.  They both are really grouchy about this if it's pointed out.  

El: Main antagonist of some sort, the introduction in RoW makes it abundantly clear that this is a very important character.  

[Ramona Tehradin]

Here are my predictions. Can't wait to come back three years later to laugh on our assumptions: 

Kaladin

I think he has lot of loose threads that remain untied and we need to have an explanation which would possibly not be explained in a single book because that's too much. I do have a lot of possibilities for him and dying or degrading isn't one of them. He will SURVIVE.

• Becomes a Herald, taking over patron of Windrunners. It isn't a coincidence that they have specifically killed Jezrien and left Windrunners patroness. Also, the way people have been revering Kaladin does direct towards that path. While it would be thematically beautiful, but it wouldn't be actually accurate according to Kal's arc. 
• Takes temporary retirement from war and starts a therapy center for all soldiers. Trains his father and mother (if they are alive) along with Dabbid and other members of Bridge Four. Starts a medical revolution by allowing men (at least surgeons) to read. Maybe assist Jasnah (assuming she survives as well) in her goal to abolish slavery from Vorin countries. 
• Becomes Worldhopper. I think he has maximum chance of leaving Roshar with Syl (assuming they make a breakthrough in expanding Connection) and travel to different worlds with Hoid (FLUTE!) or maybe join Azure. Some WoBs indicate a potential meeting between our Kal and K from misty world. 
• Speaks 5th Ideal of course. 

Most Plausible theory- Ascends as Honor- I think Kaladin has more chances of becoming Honor than Dalinar does. His powers especially are very close to Honor and are much different from other Windrunners. Even his typical Radiant attributes are way different from other Radiants in general with Stormfather calling him Child/Son of Tanavast for a specific reason and Hesina's connection to Cultivation. There are a thousand other reasons and Kaladin has always been referred as a 'storm' which are of Honor. 

Shallan

Survives as well. I don't think killing her after she managed to overcome her trauma would do justice to her character. We can see her moving to Kholinar with Adolin and rebuilding their princedom. Absorbs Radiant by end of book, maybe 'awaken' Testament as well. 

Can be a worldhopper too. 

Dalinar- Dies/Becomes Fused. Swears 4th Ideal. 

Adolin - Survives. Doesn't becomes a Radiant but has a special 'bond' with Maya who starts to regain better cognitive functions. Starts life with Shallan. Worldhopper maybe.

Navani- Survives. Swears at least to third Ideal (can open perpendicularity?) Designs weapons of mass destruction which can be dropped from airships. Shardgun maybe. Possible Worldhopper after hearing her interest in visiting other worlds but probably won't due to her bond to Sibling. 

Szeth- Dies. Completes 5th Ideal but dies. 

Venli- Survives. Nothing much to say. Swears upto 3rd Ideal.

Jasnah- Survives, starts to make commentary on Oathbringer in loving memory of her uncle. Can become Worldhopper. Breaks up with Wit knowing his real intention. Starts to reform new world with her laws. 

Renarin- 50/50 chance of living/dying. I will assume Todium knows that Renarin is black spot he can't predict and would surely target him first and foremost. Also, we see that Renarin has accepted his hybrid powers and after hearing his conversation with Glys that they need more of their kind, I am scared to ponder upon worse. 

Leshwi- Dies a valiant death. Talks with Syl about Riah and accepts her fate.

Vyre- Dies. Killed by Kaladin. 

Taravangian/Odium- 50/50 chance of living/dying. If survives, is free from Roshar. Hurls across space to meet Autonomy and then move towards Scadrial. If gets splintered then maybe becomes dishard or trishard. 

Cultivation- 50/50 chance of living/dying

Honor- Gets reforged. 

Hoid- Survives, odiously. 

Others who can possibly die: 

• One of Heralds, Nale or Ishar maybe, Kalak. 
• Some Bridge Four members. 
• Kadash or Rushu 
• Queen Fen 
• Malata
• A Highprince (not Sebarial)
• One of Shallan's brothers 
• An Unamde (Those two remaining ones maybe)
• Some Unseen Court members.
• Many Skybreaks 
• A lot of Shin folks obviously 
• A lot of spren. 

Characters who will/might survive: Rlain. Dabbid. Lift. Ash. Taln. Thude. Oroden. Gavinor. Kalak. The Unmades. Remaining Bridge Four and Unseen Court. Rysn, Chiri-Chiri.

Possible Radiants by end of book 5 (assuming they survive): Dabbid. Thude. Ash. Yanagawn. Cord. Rushu. 

Possible Worldhoppers:

• Kaladin ( Scadrial/Nalthis/Threnody/Yolen).
• Shallan (Scadrial/Sel), Adolin (Scadrial/Sel) and agents of Unseen Court.
• Jasnah (Drominiad/Threnody/Obrodai/Sel). 
• Dalinar (If becomes a Fused) (Possibly one of Shardworlds which Mercy, Valor and Invention occupy, or another unnamed Shard.) 
• Navani (Ashyn)
• Vashar/Zahel, Azure/Vivenna and her sword, Hoid, Nightblood (reunited with Vashar). Hoid of course.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Ramona Tehradin

[GameOfGroans]

To think that some people used to say Game Of Thrones was too complex 

[Lightdancer]

15 hours ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

Navani- Survives. Swears at least to third Ideal (can open perpendicularity?) Designs weapons of mass destruction which can be dropped from airships. Shardgun maybe. Possible Worldhopper after hearing her interest in visiting other worlds but probably won't due to her bond to Sibling. 

I have been wondering if she can do the perpendicularity. I'd like to see that Shardgun...

I'm just here to give my two cents on Kaladin. Nobody here seems to think he'll die, which makes me happy. I want him to survive and become a therapist. Him becoming Honor would be cool (really cool) but I think I just want the catharsis of seeing Kaladin fulfill what I think is his calling.

I do expect that he'll swear the fifth ideal. I can't think of any specific evidence for that, but I'd like to see it.

[Toaster Retribution]

*Kaladin - Ascends to take Honor. I know, very crackpot, but Dalinar doing it is too storming obvious, and someone will.

*Shallan - Dies in a spectacular and self-sacrificing fashion. 

*Dalinar - The "you will be a Fused-clause" is too ominous to not be happening. Dalinar will totally become a Fused. 

*Adolin - I have always thought that he would die eventually, so he'll probably survive, and become an important general in the back five. 

*Szeth - Will probably die. I don't think he has much to do in the back-half, and we will be losing characters. 

*Venli - No idea how she will factor into the plot, but her reuniting with Eshonai in the Beyond sounds like a great way for her story to end, so I'll say that she dies in Book 5. 

*Navani - Survives, and continues to act as the lady who gets Urithiru to work in the back five. 

*Jasnah, Renarin, Lift, Taln, Ash - Lives, will be super-important in the back five. 

*Mraize - Dies, just to show that he wasn't really that important and the Ghostbloods are a MUCH bigger threat than him (hope he lives though, but I don't think that is happening). 

*Nale - Will defy all odds and make it to the back five. Brandon is a huge Les Miserables fan, and Nale is way too much of a Javert to go down halfway through the series. 

*Rlain - Will survive and lead the Singers in Venlis stead. 

*Taravangian - Will stay Odiuos way into the back-half, and possibly longer than that. 

*Rysn - Will live and be an important supporting character in Book 6-10. She will ride a lanceryn. 

*Hoid - Will keep on hoidin´. 

*Moash - No way he lives past Book 5. He will die, and Ash will be the one to kill him, for murdering Jezrien. 

 

[Gears]

Kaladin: Survives, Fifth Oath [my pet theory is "I will accept that I deserve protection"], starts a happy life away from war, possibly as a therapist. Alternatively, he dies in a self-sacrificing manner after swearing the Fifth Oath [which will be different from my pet theory in this case]. 

Shallan: Survives with Adolin, becoming a worldhopping duo ready to take on the cosmere. Radiant's reintegration is a tossup, though I'm leaning towards it happening because of Veil [though I mildly dislike the reintegration arc because it supports the narrative that people with DID have to reintegrate to be "fixed" and that people who choose not to reintegrate are settling for the "bad" option].

Dalinar: Loses the contest, becomes a Fused, begins the eternal conquest. Alternatively, Taravangian finds a loophole, the contest is invalidated, and Dalinar is left scrabbling at the barren stone, hoping for salvation when none will come. Either way, he will end Book 5 on a very low note, and Book 6 will open with a very sad Dalinar, if it features him at all.

Adolin: Survives, worldhopping duo, has an inverted bond with Mayalaran [where he gives her strength because she is the broken one and he remains whole].

Navani: Survives, masters fabrial science [even as she slows production of fabrials], swears another Oath, ends up chilling with the Sibling in Urithiru for 15 years, being an awesome queen [I know Jasnah's the queen, it's metaphorical].

Szeth: Survives, but with Dalinar's death/turning, he realises that obeying things, be they people or laws, is not the best way. He does not swear the Fifth Oath, but it sets him up for it after he cleanses Shinovar [which is where he goes off to for 15 years].

Venli: Survives, rebuilds her people, swears another Oath.

Jasnah: Survives, with Dalinar's death/turning writes a bittersweet undertext, goes on the warpath to overturn the social hierarchy and systematically eliminates the dahn/nahn system, rank based on eye colour, gender roles, and more. This occupies her for the 15 years we see, and the back half opens up with her struggling to keep her key supporters loyal even as the people love her. 

Renarin: Survives, founds a new variant of Knights Radiant with Sja-anat's Corrupted/Enlightened spren, becomes a bit more confident, maybe starts dating Rlain by back five.

Leshwi: Dies in battle against the Fused after finding out the fate of Riah and talking to Kaladin about Honor, Oaths, and the nature of morality.

Vyre: Either killed out of mercy or survives as an empty shell out of mercy. [Isn't it strange how mercy can be used to justify the most heinous of acts, if only you mean well?]

Taravangian: Survives. Depending on the result of the contest, he'll either be free to wreak havoc or just destroy Roshar.

Hoid: You and I both know that this one won't die for a long while.

[Brgst13]

Kaladin- Ascends to Honor

Ishar- dies

Dalinar- dies, becomes Fused.  Upon Kaladin's Ascension, swears Oath and becomes new Bondsmith Herald

[Aismeen]

On 12/11/2020 at 5:15 PM, Gears said:

Jasnah: Survives, with Dalinar's death/turning writes a bittersweet undertext, goes on the warpath to overturn the social hierarchy and systematically eliminates the dahn/nahn system, rank based on eye colour, gender roles, and more. This occupies her for the 15 years we see, and the back half opens up with her struggling to keep her key supporters loyal even as the people love her. 

I agree. I think she mentioned being the last monarch of Alethkar in Rhythm of War, but I might be wrong. If I remember correctly, then in the future, Jasnah would probably try to overturn the social hierarchy like you said, including turning Alethkar into something besides a monarchy (a republic? democracy?). I don't think she'd do very much about Vorinism, since she'd receive a lot of backlash, but I do think she'd challenge Vorin gender roles (men not being able to read, women not being able to participate in politics and warfare).

[bmcclure7]

On 12/10/2020 at 10:25 PM, Chiberty said:

What are everyone's predictions/hopes for the states each of the main characters will be in at the end of book 5? Here's mine:

Kaladin - Survives to become Teft in the back half, still at 4th Ideal

Shallan - Dies (nothing against her character, she just seems most likely to me)

Dalinar - Dies, then becomes a Fused

Venli - (no clue)

Szeth - Survives, having sworn the 5th Ideal

Navani - Survives, but dies near the beginning of book 6, Rushu replacing her as Bondsmith

Adolin - Becomes worldhopper

Back half flashback characters - Survive

Some of these are predictions, but they're also just what I hope will happen.

 

1. Kaladin  Dies but returns as some sort of cognitive shadow or something.

 

2. Dalinar  Dies and becomes fused.

 

 Shallan   Lives and is a mother to several main characters in back 5.

 

Navani  Lives and takes over the human coalition going forward.

 

venli : Lives and leads her own listener of faction going forward.

Adolin: Also lives doesn't become a world hopper Serves as a mentoring role for the next generation Also his kids will be main characters.

 

Jashna : Dies but leaves behind a diary for her successor. 

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Shallan   Lives and is a mother to several main characters in back 5.

Hate to burst your bubble, but there's a maximum of 15 years between books, and we already know the back 5 main characters.

(Lift, Taln, Ash, Jasnah, and Renarin).

[bmcclure7]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Hate to burst your bubble, but there's a maximum of 15 years between books, and we already know the back 5 main characters.

(Lift, Taln, Ash, Jasnah, and Renarin).

No we know the POV that's not the same thing. 

For example Navani is not a POV but she is a main character. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by bmcclure7

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

Hate to burst your bubble, but there's a maximum of 15 years between books, and we already know the back 5 main characters.

(Lift, Taln, Ash, Jasnah, and Renarin).

They are the flashback characters, I doubt we will have much more Kal or Shallan in back 5 books. They will become minor characters. Having a fresh PoV who interacts with characters we already know would be much better than just more Kaladin, doing more Kaladin things. Oroden, Kaladin brother, would be an excellent new PoV.

I think that the end of SA5 will be a satisfying ending, yet won't bring full resolution to the conflict on Roshar with Odium, it will change the rules of the conflict. So here are my predictions for some characters:

Dalinar - he will lose the Contest of Champions and will become Odium's servant. It's a great way to introduce us to Cosmere scale conflict. He wil have lots of philosophical discussions with Taravangian.

Kaladin - He will be forced to become king of the Tower, as the Death Rattle predicts. He will reach 5th ideal. He could be killed.

Shallan - She will finally fully uncover her past, speak the 5th truth and become a mother. She will also be a major worldhopper in Cosmere, main rival of Ghostbloods

Adolin - he will bring Maya back to life, and they will made reverse bond where it's Maya who is the knight and gain strength from Adolin, and Adolin will "fill the cracks in Maya's soul".

Navani - She will bring fabrial industrial revolution and SA6 will starts with industrial Roshar thanks to her

Szeth - probably dead but he will cleanse Shinovar and bring it to the Coalition.

Jasnah - She will change the rules of government and society. She will be the last authoritarian ruler of Alethkar and most likely of Roshar.

Vyre - dead, killed by Kaladin

Taravangian - Alive and free, however weakened as his action will lead to accidental destruction of Kharbranth, which would mean breaking the deal he made with Odium, which would weaken Odium. Death Rattles predict this.

Stormfather - dead or severely hurt, highstorm cycle will be highly disrupted, or ended. Death Rattles predict this.

 

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

No we know the POV that's not the same thing. 

For example Navani is not a POV but she is a main character. 

Navani only became a main character in RoW, and probably will drop off again in KoW.

And again the oldest child would only possibly be fifteen, probably only ten.

[bmcclure7]

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Navani only became a main character in RoW, and probably will drop off again in KoW.

And again the oldest child would only possibly be fifteen, probably only ten.

I never said there would be the only main characters.

 

 I highly doubt it will take her 5 years To get pregnant.  There are plenty of books with teenage main characters. I don't see how it would be a problem. 

[A Simple Pilgrim]

About Shallan's kids, even if they are only 14-15 in book 6, the back half will probably cover a multiple year period, they could be 18-20 in the last two books, and thus grow in importance as characters as time passes.

I do think that there will be major social change in Alethkar, but not complete social change. I don't think the nahn and dahn system will disappear, the same way that the caste system in India still exists in reality, even if legally it doesn't. I don't think Jasnah is going to do anything as extreme as mass land confiscation from the nobility and lighteyes - especially as they are the main source of soldiers in the nation. 

I do think that she will introduce democratic reforms, though I don't know if they will go straight to one man-one vote. Historically almost all democracies that evolved naturally had restricted franchise, or weighted voting, and that changed over time. 

There are legal privileges associated with 'caste' in Alethkar, I can see an expansion of those to more castes, though an interesting system in the future could be that your dahn and nahn receive some legal privileges but you pay higher taxes for it? It would be interesting to see Alethkar and Scadrial have different social and legal systems in the far future, rather than both converging on the same liberal model that dominates the west today. I don't think we are going to witness the fantasy version of Whig history in the cosmere lol.

Also Gavinor is totally going to be raised to be a monarch, and is probably going to be an awesome character, so I think he'd have something to say about abolishing the monarchy in his lifetime. 

Finally Brandon seems to have a propensity for hierarchical societies and monarchy/nobility. Scadrial Spoiler:

Spoiler

 

It would have been relatively simply for nobility to die in era 1, but noble houses are about as strong as ever in era 2, with even the Tekiels managing the transition to being some of the most important people on Scadrial for a full 1300+ years (impressive record). 

 

Edit: Also the fact that the most important figures to saving the Kingdom of Alethkar are all from the Royal family, and that the initial Knight's radiants all coming from the Royal family, or people very close to them, leading them to leading the orders. So by that logic, from the perspective of the average darkeyes and low ranking lighteyes divine right to rule looks alive and well, even justified. Also most high princes and nobility being on the front line of the war means they won't lose respect the way elites did OTL (due to changing nature of war).

Edited January 22, 2023 by A Simple Pilgrim

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

I highly doubt it will take her 5 years To get pregnant.  There are plenty of books with teenage main characters. I don't see how it would be a problem. 

The time gap is either 15 or 10 years Brandon isn't sure yet.

[bmcclure7]

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

The time gap is either 15 or 10 years Brandon isn't sure yet.

Even if it's just ten they'll probably still be important side characters.

[bmcclure7]

4 hours ago, A Simple Pilgrim said:

About Shallan's kids, even if they are only 14-15 in book 6, the back half will probably cover a multiple year period, they could be 18-20 in the last two books, and thus grow in importance as characters as time passes.

I do think that there will be major social change in Alethkar, but not complete social change. I don't think the nahn and dahn system will disappear, the same way that the caste system in India still exists in reality, even if legally it doesn't. I don't think Jasnah is going to do anything as extreme as mass land confiscation from the nobility and lighteyes - especially as they are the main source of soldiers in the nation. 

I do think that she will introduce democratic reforms, though I don't know if they will go straight to one man-one vote. Historically almost all democracies that evolved naturally had restricted franchise, or weighted voting, and that changed over time. 

There are legal privileges associated with 'caste' in Alethkar, I can see an expansion of those to more castes, though an interesting system in the future could be that your dahn and nahn receive some legal privileges but you pay higher taxes for it? It would be interesting to see Alethkar and Scadrial have different social and legal systems in the far future, rather than both converging on the same liberal model that dominates the west today. I don't think we are going to witness the fantasy version of Whig history in the cosmere lol.

Also Gavinor is totally going to be raised to be a monarch, and is probably going to be an awesome character, so I think he'd have something to say about abolishing the monarchy in his lifetime. 

Finally Brandon seems to have a propensity for hierarchical societies and monarchy/nobility. Scadrial Spoiler:

  Hide contents

 

It would have been relatively simply for nobility to die in era 1, but noble houses are about as strong as ever in era 2, with even the Tekiels managing the transition to being some of the most important people on Scadrial for a full 1300+ years (impressive record). 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Also the fact that the most important figures to saving the Kingdom of Alethkar are all from the Royal family, and that the initial Knight's radiants all coming from the Royal family, or people very close to them, leading them to leading the orders. So by that logic, from the perspective of the average darkeyes and low ranking lighteyes divine right to rule looks alive and well, even justified. Also most high princes and nobility being on the front line of the war means they won't lose respect the way elites did OTL (due to changing nature of war).

I could see a theocracy/radiancracy as there future government system. One were a council of radiance govern society similar to the 9 for the fused. 

[bmcclure7]

19 hours ago, alder24 said:

They are the flashback characters, I doubt we will have much more Kal or Shallan in back 5 books. They will become minor characters. Having a fresh PoV who interacts with characters we already know would be much better than just more Kaladin, doing more Kaladin things. Oroden, Kaladin brother, would be an excellent new PoV.

I think that the end of SA5 will be a satisfying ending, yet won't bring full resolution to the conflict on Roshar with Odium, it will change the rules of the conflict. So here are my predictions for some characters:

Dalinar - he will lose the Contest of Champions and will become Odium's servant. It's a great way to introduce us to Cosmere scale conflict. He wil have lots of philosophical discussions with Taravangian.

Kaladin - He will be forced to become king of the Tower, as the Death Rattle predicts. He will reach 5th ideal. He could be killed.

Shallan - She will finally fully uncover her past, speak the 5th truth and become a mother. She will also be a major worldhopper in Cosmere, main rival of Ghostbloods

Adolin - he will bring Maya back to life, and they will made reverse bond where it's Maya who is the knight and gain strength from Adolin, and Adolin will "fill the cracks in Maya's soul".

Navani - She will bring fabrial industrial revolution and SA6 will starts with industrial Roshar thanks to her

Szeth - probably dead but he will cleanse Shinovar and bring it to the Coalition.

Jasnah - She will change the rules of government and society. She will be the last authoritarian ruler of Alethkar and most likely of Roshar.

Vyre - dead, killed by Kaladin

Taravangian - Alive and free, however weakened as his action will lead to accidental destruction of Kharbranth, which would mean breaking the deal he made with Odium, which would weaken Odium. Death Rattles predict this.

Stormfather - dead or severely hurt, highstorm cycle will be highly disrupted, or ended. Death Rattles predict this.

 

I highly doubt Kaladin will kill a helpless blind man.

[alder24]

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

The time gap is either 15 or 10 years Brandon isn't sure yet.

Lift is "10". Why not some other character as well? It will still cover multi year time period so we see will see them growing up. Shallan was 17 in WoK.

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

I highly doubt Kaladin will kill a helpless blind man.

I highly doubt Moash is "helpless". 

9 hours ago, A Simple Pilgrim said:

About Shallan's kids, even if they are only 14-15 in book 6, the back half will probably cover a multiple year period, they could be 18-20 in the last two books, and thus grow in importance as characters as time passes.

I do think that there will be major social change in Alethkar, but not complete social change. I don't think the nahn and dahn system will disappear, the same way that the caste system in India still exists in reality, even if legally it doesn't. I don't think Jasnah is going to do anything as extreme as mass land confiscation from the nobility and lighteyes - especially as they are the main source of soldiers in the nation. 

I do think that she will introduce democratic reforms, though I don't know if they will go straight to one man-one vote. Historically almost all democracies that evolved naturally had restricted franchise, or weighted voting, and that changed over time. 

There are legal privileges associated with 'caste' in Alethkar, I can see an expansion of those to more castes, though an interesting system in the future could be that your dahn and nahn receive some legal privileges but you pay higher taxes for it? It would be interesting to see Alethkar and Scadrial have different social and legal systems in the far future, rather than both converging on the same liberal model that dominates the west today. I don't think we are going to witness the fantasy version of Whig history in the cosmere lol.

Also Gavinor is totally going to be raised to be a monarch, and is probably going to be an awesome character, so I think he'd have something to say about abolishing the monarchy in his lifetime. 

Finally Brandon seems to have a propensity for hierarchical societies and monarchy/nobility. Scadrial Spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It would have been relatively simply for nobility to die in era 1, but noble houses are about as strong as ever in era 2, with even the Tekiels managing the transition to being some of the most important people on Scadrial for a full 1300+ years (impressive record). 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Also the fact that the most important figures to saving the Kingdom of Alethkar are all from the Royal family, and that the initial Knight's radiants all coming from the Royal family, or people very close to them, leading them to leading the orders. So by that logic, from the perspective of the average darkeyes and low ranking lighteyes divine right to rule looks alive and well, even justified. Also most high princes and nobility being on the front line of the war means they won't lose respect the way elites did OTL (due to changing nature of war).

I do agree, I see Jasnah reforming the government to some form of elective constitutional monarchy, where the King/Queen has a highly diminished role. The Nahn/Dahn system is already failing - we had 1000 slaves jumping from the lowest status to becoming Shardbearers and 3 Dahn. Changes are necessary already, everyone can become a Radiant.

[bmcclure7]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Lift is "10". Why not some other character as well? It will still cover multi year time period so we see will see them growing up. Shallan was 17 in WoK.

I highly doubt Moash is "helpless". 

I do agree, I see Jasnah reforming the government to some form of elective constitutional monarchy, where the King/Queen has a highly diminished role. The Nahn/Dahn system is already failing - we had 1000 slaves jumping from the lowest status to becoming Shardbearers and 3 Dahn. Changes are necessary already, everyone can become a Radiant.

 He's blind how more helpless could he possibly get?

 

   I'm leaning towards them for me in a more theocracy/ Radiancracy  Similar to what the singers have but with  A council of 10 instead of 9, With the bondsmith acting as the understood leader. 

 

Whatever system they have I hope it's different from what they have in mistborn.  Democracy is good and all but it would be cooler to have some variation.

 

 

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 I'm leaning towards them for me in a more theocracy/ Radiancracy  Similar to what the singers have but with  A council of 10 instead of 9, With the bondsmith acting as the understood leader. 

 

Whatever system they have I hope it's different from what they have in mistborn.  Democracy is good and all but it would be cooler to have some variation.

There is a separation between the Tower and Alethkar, both are separate and independent states, that temporarily are ruled from the same place. The government you propose can be made in Urithiru but in Alethkar, I doubt it. They decided to remain separate when Jasnah was crowned instead of Dalinar.

7 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 He's blind how more helpless could he possibly get?

Blind with a Honorblade, possibly influenced by Dai-Gonarthis, having blood of Teft and many others on his hands. Representing what Kaladin could have become. He doesn't have to be killed in the fight, he can be killed as an act of mercy.

[Elder]

Moash is going to continue to assault Kaladin’s psyche via visions.  Kaladin will have his final battle with Moash and it will be a battle of ideals.

I do think Taravangian will outmaneuver Dalinar in the Contest of Champions.  But, it won’t necessarily go his way anyway.  Taravangian keeps thinking Dalinar can’t succeed, and Dalinar keeps succeeding anyway.

If Dalinar can pick up the Shards afterwards, he will be the Shard of War.  Dalinar may not be able to do it as a Cognitive Shadow.If not, Adolin has a nice blend of Honor and Odium in him.  So does Szeth come to think of it.  

Shalan and Adolin will seek out Ba-Ado-Mishram, fight the Ghostbloods, and save the Deadeyes.  That oughta completely upend social structures if you think about it.

Szeth is going to learn lessons of justice and mercy as he faces his people.  His “cleansing” of Shinovar won’t go how he thinks.

 

 

SP4 Spoiler

Spoiler

In the Sunlit Man, Nomad aka Sigzil talks about his oaths ending.  Not that he broke them, but that they ended. Maybe the Honor-Spren will reconstitute Honor, leaving some of these folks without their radiant bonds.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Elder

[offer]

41 minutes ago, Elder said:

Moash is going to continue to assault Kaladin’s psyche via visions.  Kaladin will have his final battle with Moash and it will be a battle of ideals.

I do think Taravangian will outmaneuver Dalinar in the Contest of Champions.  But, it won’t necessarily go his way anyway.  Taravangian keeps thinking Dalinar can’t succeed, and Dalinar keeps succeeding anyway.

If Dalinar can pick up the Shards afterwards, he will be the Shard of War.  Dalinar may not be able to do it as a Cognitive Shadow.If not, Adolin has a nice blend of Honor and Odium in him.  So does Szeth come to think of it.  

Shalan and Adolin will seek out Ba-Ado-Mishram, fight the Ghostbloods, and save the Deadeyes.  That oughta completely upend social structures if you think about it.

Szeth is going to learn lessons of justice and mercy as he faces his people.  His “cleansing” of Shinovar won’t go how he thinks.

  Reveal hidden contents

In the Sunlit Man, Nomad aka Sigzil talks about his oaths ending.  Not that he broke them, but that they ended. Maybe the Honor-Spren will reconstitute Honor, leaving some of these folks without their radiant bonds.

 

Please specify that this is a SP4 spoiler.