Frustration

I don't like this bond

116 posts in this topic

Navani bonds the Sibling despite the Sibling saying that she isn't worthy, and from what I've seen the community likes this, the book portrays it as, "I'm tired of people thinking I'm not good enough" but Worthiness is not something the reciver get's to decide. We saw the power Ishar had that is the consequences of the unworthy having power they shouldn't. Honestly kind of upset The sibling didn't break off the bond immedietly afterwards and get Rlain, we know that that is something they can do. Anyway what do you think?

Edited by Chaos
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5 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Navani bonds the Sibling despite the Sibling saying that she isn't worthy, and from what I've seen the community likes this, the book portrays it as, "I'm tired of people thinking I'm not good enough" but Worthiness is not something the reciver get's to decide. We saw the power Ishar had that is the consequences of the unworthy having power they shouldn't. Honestly kind of upset The sibling didn't break off the bond immedietly afterwards and get Rlain, we know that that is something they can do. Anyway what do you think?

So totally respect it doesn't work for you, to each your own. But since you did ask:

1.  Breaking the bond requires both sides to agree in order for the spren not to die.

2.  Personally I believe, and I think the books support this that no one truly starts the bond "worthy". That is the point of the bond. Personal growth. Navani may not be ideal, but she (or at least as stated by her/the book) is willing to put the work into being a better person. Like Dalinar. Like Jasnah. Like Kaladin and Shallan and Lift and so on and so forth. 

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I agree with @Pathfinder on this. Especially their second part. Take Adolin for example. There are people on this forum who think that he would fit Orders other than Edgedancer despite his Bond he seems to be forming with Maya. While he may not be ideal for Edgedancers, he does have the stuff and he very well could progress to being better because of it. I view Navani and the Sibling in a similar light.

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I agree too. The best example would be Venli. At the beginning, she was definitely unworthy of a Radiant bond. However, she grew over time and is becoming a better person. While some people might fit a particular Radiant order very well from the beginning, such as Kaladin, others (I would say probably a majority of Radiants overall) grow into it over time.

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9 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Navani bonds the Sibling despite the Sibling saying that she isn't worthy, and from what I've seen the community likes this, the book portrays it as, "I'm tired of people thinking I'm not good enough" but Worthiness is not something the reciver get's to decide. We saw the power Ishar had that is the consequences of the unworthy having power they shouldn't. Honestly kind of upset The sibling didn't break off the bond immedietly afterwards and get Rlain, we know that that is something they can do. Anyway what do you think?

Navani isn't worth because she captures spren for fabrials. They went over this argument in the books and the Sibling has relented. As of the end of the book, there doesn't seem to be a huge backlash or regret from the Sibling. Navani will probably be unable to create Fabrials going forward, but that's probably a good thing.

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14 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

1.  Breaking the bond requires both sides to agree in order for the spren not to die.

Long WoB

Spoiler

Questioner

So, the fan page wanted to know. Would it be possible for Hemalurgy to steal a living Shardblade? That was the top voted question.

Brandon Sanderson

Ok, so you're bonded to a Shardblade. You get spiked, then they spike off the bond so that the Shardblade is bonded to someone else.

Questioner

I assume so...

Brandon Sanderson

But can they do it with a living Shardblade? You can definitely do it with a dead Shardblade because its just stealing the Connection. With a living Shardblade, yes you could do that 'though the spren could break the bond at will.

Questioner

So the spren would survive? That was the second-- the corollary--

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh. Would the spren survive? The spren would survive as long as the oaths were--

Questioner

Intact?

Brandon Sanderson

--the person didn't break the oaths. But you could theoretically steal the bond, break the oaths, and kill the spren. If you wanted to. Its a very convoluted to kill a spren, they are easier to kill than that, but yes. You could do that. That is a viable but twisted route that you can do. You would end up with a dead spren and a Shardblade, so there is that. But there are easier ways to accomplish that...

White Sand vol.1 Orem signing (June 29, 2016)

 

I disagree with the fit over time, especially in Bondsmiths where the power is so immence, and with The Sibling basically being threatened into it leaves a particularly uneasy feeling with me.

 

2 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

Navani isn't worth because she captures spren for fabrials. They went over this argument in the books and the Sibling has relented. As of the end of the book, there doesn't seem to be a huge backlash or regret from the Sibling. Navani will probably be unable to create Fabrials going forward, but that's probably a good thing.

I litterally like thirty minuets ago let my friend borrow RoW, but to the best of my knowledge that was not the case, All the Sibling said was "You are not worthy." 

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2 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

 

I litterally like thirty minuets ago let my friend borrow RoW, but to the best of my knowledge that was not the case, All the Sibling said was "You are not worthy." 

Spoiler

 

Our bond is unusual, the Sibling said. I still do not know what I think of what we've done.

"If we meant our words, and keep them, does it matter?"

What of fabrials? the Sibling asked. You did not promise to stop capturing spren.

"We will find a compromise," Navani said, picking her way out of the room with the crystal pillar. "We will work together to find an acceptable path forward."

Will it be like your compromise with Raboniel, where you tricked her?

"That was the best compromise she and I could come to, and we both knew it," Navani said. "You and I can do better."

I wish to believe you, the Sibling said. But as of yet, I do not. I am sorry.

 

The Sibling's primary reason for finding Navani not worthy was her practice of forcing spren into fabrials.

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11 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Long WoB

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

So, the fan page wanted to know. Would it be possible for Hemalurgy to steal a living Shardblade? That was the top voted question.

Brandon Sanderson

Ok, so you're bonded to a Shardblade. You get spiked, then they spike off the bond so that the Shardblade is bonded to someone else.

Questioner

I assume so...

Brandon Sanderson

But can they do it with a living Shardblade? You can definitely do it with a dead Shardblade because its just stealing the Connection. With a living Shardblade, yes you could do that 'though the spren could break the bond at will.

Questioner

So the spren would survive? That was the second-- the corollary--

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh. Would the spren survive? The spren would survive as long as the oaths were--

Questioner

Intact?

Brandon Sanderson

--the person didn't break the oaths. But you could theoretically steal the bond, break the oaths, and kill the spren. If you wanted to. Its a very convoluted to kill a spren, they are easier to kill than that, but yes. You could do that. That is a viable but twisted route that you can do. You would end up with a dead spren and a Shardblade, so there is that. But there are easier ways to accomplish that...

White Sand vol.1 Orem signing (June 29, 2016)

 

I disagree with the fit over time, especially in Bondsmiths where the power is so immence, and with The Sibling basically being threatened into it leaves a particularly uneasy feeling with me.

Totally respect that you can interpret that WoB differently, but they were talking about stealing the bond via hemalurgy. That as long as the radiant hadn't broken the oath when the bond was stolen, it would still work. At least for a little bit. I was referring to this WoB:

 

Spoiler

 

Overlord Jebus

Can a spren willingly break their bond anytime between the First and Fifth Oath, with their Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, this is possible--

Overlord Jebus

Essentially committing suicide isn't it though--

Brandon Sanderson

I just ascribe to that question-- A spren could at any point break it. Can they break it safely? That's a different question.

Overlord Jebus

Can they break it safely? *laughs*

Brandon Sanderson

There are methods in place where it can be stopped. So yes it can be done. But once you've started into this, once you've chosen on both sides, it's a dangerous process. But yes it can be done, and it can be done safely.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

 

As to what happened between the Sibling and Navani. The same exact conversation (to me), took place with Dalinar and the Stormfather and yet they progress:

 

Words of Radiance page 1071

"I am the sliver of the almighty himself. I am the stormfather. I will not let myself be bound in such a way as to kill me!"

 

The stormfather was convinced that Dalinar would break the oaths and kill him. Just like the Sibling was convinced of the same regarding Navani. Dalinar and the Stormfather grew together, and Dalinar is also a bondsmith. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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1 minute ago, Leuthie said:
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Our bond is unusual, the Sibling said. I still do not know what I think of what we've done.

"If we meant our words, and keep them, does it matter?"

What of fabrials? the Sibling asked. You did not promise to stop capturing spren.

"We will find a compromise," Navani said, picking her way out of the room with the crystal pillar. "We will work together to find an acceptable path forward."

Will it be like your compromise with Raboniel, where you tricked her?

"That was the best compromise she and I could come to, and we both knew it," Navani said. "You and I can do better."

I wish to believe you, the Sibling said. But as of yet, I do not. I am sorry.

 

The Sibling's primary reason for finding Navani not worthy was her practice of forcing spren into fabrials.

I remember The Siblings beef with fabrials, but I doubt it's the only much less the primary reason, They at one point reject humans as bondmates all together, and not due to fabrials.

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

Totally respect that you can interpret that WoB differently, but they were talking about stealing the both via hemalurgy. I was referring to this WoB:

 

  Hide contents

 

Overlord Jebus

Can a spren willingly break their bond anytime between the First and Fifth Oath, with their Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, this is possible--

Overlord Jebus

Essentially committing suicide isn't it though--

Brandon Sanderson

I just ascribe to that question-- A spren could at any point break it. Can they break it safely? That's a different question.

Overlord Jebus

Can they break it safely? *laughs*

Brandon Sanderson

There are methods in place where it can be stopped. So yes it can be done. But once you've started into this, once you've chosen on both sides, it's a dangerous process. But yes it can be done, and it can be done safely.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

 

As to what happened between the Sibling and Navani. The same exact conversation (to me), took place with Dalinar and the Stormfather and yet they progress:

Words of Radiance page 1071

"I am the sliver of the almighty himself. I am the stormfather. I will not let myself be bound in such a way as to kill me!"

 

 

That same WoB says it can be done safely.

On the Stormfather, the Stormfather still acspets, and not because their afraid of death, He says immediatly afterwasrd that they'll die anyways. The Sibling only accepts Navani becuse they where about to be murdered.

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9 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

That same WoB says it can be done safely.

Right, if both the knight and spren agree to voluntarily break it. Even then it is dicey. But as per the WoB i showed, if just the spren breaks it, they are essentially committing suicide. So if the sibling chose to break the bond and navani did not, then the sibling would die.

9 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

On the Stormfather, the Stormfather still acspets, and not because their afraid of death, He says immediatly afterwasrd that they'll die anyways. The Sibling only accepts Navani becuse they where about to be murdered.

The Stormfather assumes dalinar will lose anyway, but that doesn't change that the reason the stormfather didnt want to bond was because he felt sure dalinar would kill him. The stormfather has even restated that numerous times after the fact. Only later and gradually has the stormfather begun to respect dalinar and recognize his growth. Personally i really dont see the difference between dalinar and navani in this situation.

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3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Right, if both the knight and spren agree to voluntarily break it. Even then it is dicey. But as per the WoB i showed, if just the spren breaks it, they are essentially committing suicide. So if the sibling chose to break the bond and navani did not, then the sibling would die.

 

Spoiler

Overlord Jebus

Can a spren willingly break their bond anytime between the First and Fifth Oath, with their Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, this is possible--

Overlord Jebus

Essentially committing suicide isn't it though--

Brandon Sanderson

I just ascribe to that question-- A spren could at any point break it. Can they break it safely? That's a different question.

Overlord Jebus

Can they break it safely? *laughs*

Brandon Sanderson

There are methods in place where it can be stopped. So yes it can be done. But once you've started into this, once you've chosen on both sides, it's a dangerous process. But yes it can be done, and it can be done safely.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

No mention of both parties having to be willing.

 

5 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

The Stormfather assumes dalinar will lose anyway, but that doesn't change that the reason the stormfather didnt want to bond was because he felt sure dalinar would kill him. The stormfather has even restated that numerous times after the fact. Only later and gradually has the stormfather begun to respect dalinar and recognize his growth. Personally i really dont see the difference between dalinar and navani in this situation.

The way I see it, The Stormfather was reluctant, but did as his Father asked, The Sibling outright said, "I won't have you you are not worthy of this power, but on pain of death was forced to comply.

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Navani is the best person to bond the Sibling. She is a scientist, and the Rhythm of Tower represents science better than anything else. As stated in the text itself, it is nature + structure. Rlain may be a great candidate for Bondsmith, but not for Sibling.
And I don't like to talk about it as if Navani had stolen something from him, she formed this Bond out of necessity. Until then, she had shown no interest in that.
Obviously the two will learn a lot about the advantages of this bond, and the good it will have for both (and Roshar).

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2 minutes ago, Raphaborn said:

Navani is the best person to bond the Sibling. She is a scientist, and Tower Rhythm represents science better than anything else. As stated in the text itself, it is nature + structure. Rlain may be a great candidate for Bondsmith, but not for Sibling.

I would argue that Sibling has been around long enough to know what's good for them, and if they rejected Navani they had good reason.

3 minutes ago, Raphaborn said:

And I don't like to talk about it as if Navani had stolen something from him, she formed this Bond out of necessity. Until then, she had shown no interest in that.
Obviously the two will learn a lot about the advantages of this bond, and the good it will have for both (and Roshar).

Don't like as in it makes you uncomfortable or as in you disagree?

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11 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Overlord Jebus

Can a spren willingly break their bond anytime between the First and Fifth Oath, with their Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, this is possible--

Overlord Jebus

Essentially committing suicide isn't it though--

Brandon Sanderson

I just ascribe to that question-- A spren could at any point break it. Can they break it safely? That's a different question.

Overlord Jebus

Can they break it safely? *laughs*

Brandon Sanderson

There are methods in place where it can be stopped. So yes it can be done. But once you've started into this, once you've chosen on both sides, it's a dangerous process. But yes it can be done, and it can be done safely.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

No mention of both parties having to be willing.

So at this point I am confused. Did you not see the part I highlighted? Not being obtuse or sarcastic. Genuinely asking. You are perfectly entitled to interpret it differently, but the line I referred to is right there in the portion you quoted. I don't want to go back and forth posting the same portion. If you saw it and just disagree, then to each their own, but for myself at least, it definitely says both sides have to choose. 

Quote

The way I see it, The Stormfather was reluctant, but did as his Father asked, The Sibling outright said, "I won't have you you are not worthy of this power, but on pain of death was forced to comply.

The only thing Tanavast ordered the stormfather to do is send the visions. The stormfather was never asked to bond with anyone. But regardless, that still does not change for myself that both the SIbling and the Stormfather felt the exact same way about their bondies. 

 

edit: and going on your argument for the Sibling, the same can be said for the Stormfather. He has been around long enough to know what is in his best interest. If anything he has seniority on the Sibling. He has said on numerous occasions to Dalinar, Kaladin and refers to humans as whole, will kill the spren. That is why the Stormfather was so against Syl going to Kaladin. The stormfather feels all of humanity will kill spren. Just like the sibling. And just like the both of them, they bonded bondsmiths against their own will

 

But at the end of the day it is clear your view on the subject. I thought you were asking to understand what others thought on the subject?

Edited by Pathfinder
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1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

So at this point I am confused. Did you not see the part I highlighted? Not being obtuse or sarcastic. Genuinely asking. You are perfectly entitled to interpret it differently, but the line I referred to is right there in the portion you quoted. I don't want to go back and forth posting the same portion. If you saw it and just disagree, then to each their own, but for myself at least, it definitely says both sides have to choose. 

I saw, but Brandon only ever says dangerous Overlord was the one who asked if it was suicide and Brandon said it was possible to break safly. I suppose it's possible you interpretation was correct, but perhapse mine is, who knows.

2 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

The only thing Tanavast ordered the stormfather to do is send the visions. The stormfather was never asked to bond with anyone. But regardless, that still does not change for myself that both the SIbling and the Stormfather felt the exact same way about their bondies. 

And find a bondsmith, if my memory hasn't failed me.

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19 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

I saw, but Brandon only ever says dangerous Overlord was the one who asked if it was suicide and Brandon said it was possible to break safly. I suppose it's possible you interpretation was correct, but perhapse mine is, who knows.

Personally I saw the progression as: Can spren break the bond? -> Yes, but the question is if they can safely -> can they break it safely? Yes, if they both choose to, it can be done safely. Otherwise I don't see why he would mention both choosing. But it is clear we each view it how we view it. So I wish you luck, and hopefully the next book will make you feel better about the bond. 

Quote

And find a bondsmith, if my memory hasn't failed me.

Words of Radiance page 1070

"I was required to send those visions once the time arrived. The Almighty demanded it of me. I could no more disobey than I could refuse to blow the winds"

"The visions were his then" Dalinar said "and you the vehicle for choosing who received them?"

"Yes"

"Why did you pick me?" Dalinar demanded

"It does not matter. You were too slow. You failed. This Everstorm is here, and the spren of the enemy come to inhabit the ancient ones. It is over. You have lost."

......(few sentences not pertinent though I will post them if you wish)

"He wished for me to find you, but your kind have brought only death to mine."

 

So I take the quote to mean:

1. Tanavast forced the Stormfather to send the visions

2. The Stormfather got to pick who he sent the visions to

3. Stormfather picked Dalinar to stop the parshendi from summoning the storm. Dalinar failed

4. Stormfather only searched for people to send the visions to because of Tanavast

5. Stormfather is convinced humans will only kill his kind

6. Stormfather was required to send the visions, but not to bond. Otherwise he could not have refused Dalinar initially. Just like he could not refuse to send the visions anymore than he could refuse to "blow the winds"

 

but as with the WoB we were discussing, I certainly respect if you interpret "find you" to mean "find a bondsmith to bond". To each their own

Edited by Pathfinder
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3 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

I would argue that Sibling has been around long enough to know what's good for them, and if they rejected Navani they had good reason.

Don't like as in it makes you uncomfortable or as in you disagree?

Because I disagree.
It is obvious that Singers have more affinity today for someone like Sibling, and even for Sprens in general, but it is not their species that should define this. See how Honorsprens have treated humans so far, and how the Reachers have done so far. It is the individual person who needs to be judged, in which case I see Navani standing out.
She and Sibling have disagreements in relation to the Fabrials, but Navani did not argue otherwise. She asked for advice from the Radiant Sprens and even the Stormfather before continuing. Now she sees that there is another side, and she is willing to learn and give in. It is like the human being and his learning about nature. Learning your laws is important for advancement, but you need to learn that your actions have consequences. Disagreements can form even stronger and more sincere bonds.
Ah, they would have a good reason to decide to deny it, but shouldn't he at least try to talk to her first?

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4 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

I remember The Siblings beef with fabrials, but I doubt it's the only much less the primary reason, They at one point reject humans as bondmates all together, and not due to fabrials.

Of course that wasn't the only reason. The Recreance was a big reason. Something leading up to the Recreance lead the Sibling to originally leave humans behind. We don't know exactly what, but I'm sure it still holds.

But none of that is particular to Navani. Adolin went to Lasting Integrity to argue that humans today shouldn't be judged for things done thousands of years ago. The same argument can apply here. The Sibling "chose" Rlain because he isn't a human and is bondable. There was no other real consideration there. There was only prejudice.

The Sibling's only beef with Navani besides her being human was with her capturing spren. And it's a continuing beef and a challenge they'll have to get over.

I think I agree with you primary point with Navani and the Sibling bond. It's definitely problematic. But I disagree that the Sibling feels that they want to drop the bond now. The interactions we got to see at the end of the book show two beings that respect each other working out their differences. 

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1 minute ago, Leuthie said:

Of course that wasn't the only reason. The Recreance was a big reason. Something leading up to the Recreance lead the Sibling to originally leave humans behind. We don't know exactly what, but I'm sure it still holds.

But none of that is particular to Navani. Adolin went to Lasting Integrity to argue that humans today shouldn't be judged for things done thousands of years ago. The same argument can apply here. The Sibling "chose" Rlain because he isn't a human and is bondable. There was no other real consideration there. There was only prejudice.

The Sibling's only beef with Navani besides her being human was with her capturing spren. And it's a continuing beef and a challenge they'll have to get over.

I think I agree with you primary point with Navani and the Sibling bond. It's definitely problematic. But I disagree that the Sibling feels that they want to drop the bond now. The interactions we got to see at the end of the book show two beings that respect each other working out their differences. 

True there was a side of the sibling that didn't want a human, but at the same time, Navani was judged as unworthy, and while Rlain was accepted the Sibling didn't even consider a singer, or a bond, Rlain worked for it. Rlain stood to Unite Singers and Humans, Dalinar stood to Unite humanity, who does Navani stand to unite? What bonds is she needed to forge? She was judged as unworthy of the immence and honestly terrifing power of a Bondsmith. 

I never said the Sibling did want to break the bond, I'm surprised it didn't.

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2 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

 Rlain stood to Unite Singers and Humans, Dalinar stood to Unite humanity, who does Navani stand to unite? What bonds is she needed to forge?

Spren and humans, navani and the siblings bond will be about (among other things I'm sure) a way for science to advance on roshar in a way that is agreeable to both. 

A sort of obtuse support of this is that the sibling is a being of both honor and cultivation, adhesion and progression, bonds and growth. 

My mind ran away from me while making this post but I think the gist of what I mean is there lol

Edited by Haze
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27 minutes ago, Haze said:

Spren and humans, navani and the siblings bond will be about (among other things I'm sure) a way for science to advance on roshar in a way that is agreeable to both. 

A sort of obtuse support of this is that the sibling is a being of both honor and cultivation, adhesion and progression, bonds and growth. 

My mind ran away from me while making this post but I think the gist of what I mean is there lol

This is also my argument. Considering the current situation between Singers and Humans, Rlain would be much better as Rhythm of War Bondsmith. It is really sad that this option does not exist (yet).

Edited by Raphaborn
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7 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

 

  Hide contents

Overlord Jebus

Can they break it safely? *laughs*

Brandon Sanderson

There are methods in place where it can be stopped. So yes it can be done. But once you've started into this, once you've chosen on both sides, it's a dangerous process. But yes it can be done, and it can be done safely.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

No mention of both parties having to be willing.

Brandon Sanderson is devious and slippery answering such questons. "It can be done." does not say "They know how to do it." Nor that they can do it themselves. For example it may require the intervention of a Bondsmith.

Nor can we be sure that The Sibling can renege.

7 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

The way I see it, The Stormfather was reluctant, but did as his Father asked, The Sibling outright said, "I won't have you you are not worthy of this power, but on pain of death was forced to comply.

Dalinar was able to force the bond once conditions were met. But that was with the Stormfather who was under orders.

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

So I take the quote to mean:

1. Tanavast forced the Stormfather to send the visions

Yes

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

2. The Stormfather got to pick who he sent the visions to

Unclear. He may have been under orders he merely executed.

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

3. Stormfather picked Dalinar to stop the parshendi from summoning the storm. Dalinar failed

4. Stormfather only searched for people to send the visions to because of Tanavast

5. Stormfather is convinced humans will only kill his kind

6. Stormfather was required to send the visions, but not to bond.

Why could Dalinar force the issue?

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Otherwise he could not have refused Dalinar initially. Just like he could not refuse to send the visions anymore than he could refuse to "blow the winds"

Honor and the Stormfather are very much letter of the law. It is possible that the Stormfather was not required to admit that he could be forced if conditions were met.

7 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

He has been around long enough to know what is in his best interest. If anything he has seniority on the Sibling. He has said on numerous occasions to Dalinar, Kaladin and refers to humans as whole, will kill the spren. That is why the Stormfather was so against Syl going to Kaladin. The stormfather feels all of humanity will kill spren. Just like the sibling. And just like the both of them, they bonded bondsmiths against their own will

Well, to be perfectly blunt, Honor and Cultivation created The Sibling for a reason and, ethics aside, as a tool with a prescribed purpose - namely to be an HQ and fortress.

That is likely to show up at some point.

7 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

but as with the WoB we were discussing, I certainly respect if you interpret "find you" to mean "find a bondsmith to bond". To each their own

The purpose of the visions is to arrange for a duel of champions. Such an agreement requires somebody authorized to mess with the Oathpact. How would that work without a Bondsmith? In particular, as that Bondsmith has to speak for Honor, how would that work without a Bondsmith bonded to the Stormfather, who is Honor's remnant?

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I  want to. I believe its mostly the circumstances. The sibling was about to die, but did want to, so, what does she do? The only real option, bond with navani. Also, in the end, they seem to have an understanding. They see each other sides. Navani did not really understand what she was doing by imprisoning the spren. If she could go back, I believe she wouldn't. The Sibling understood the import of bonding again and started to see navaniś side better.

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2 hours ago, Haze said:

Spren and humans, navani and the siblings bond will be about (among other things I'm sure) a way for science to advance on roshar in a way that is agreeable to both. 

A sort of obtuse support of this is that the sibling is a being of both honor and cultivation, adhesion and progression, bonds and growth. 

My mind ran away from me while making this post but I think the gist of what I mean is there lol

Adolin and Maya seem to have that handled

1 hour ago, Raphaborn said:

This is also my argument. Considering the current situation between Singers and Humans, Rlain would be much better as Rhythm of War Bondsmith. It is really sad that this option does not exist (yet).

I mean he does like his Warform.

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Brandon Sanderson is devious and slippery answering such questons. "It can be done." does not say "They know how to do it." Nor that they can do it themselves. For example it may require the intervention of a Bondsmith.

Fair point, But Notum did say that it was possible to undo the bond without killing the Radiant until the Fifth Ideal was sworn.

57 minutes ago, Mayalaran said:

I  want to. I believe its mostly the circumstances. The sibling was about to die, but did want to, so, what does she do? The only real option, bond with navani. Also, in the end, they seem to have an understanding. They see each other sides. Navani did not really understand what she was doing by imprisoning the spren. If she could go back, I believe she wouldn't. The Sibling understood the import of bonding again and started to see navaniś side better.

Circumstance is for small amounts of time, if nuclear launch codes came into civilian hands and they used them to stop an alien invasion for example, the government is still going to change the code, whether or not they saved their lives.

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2 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Fair point, But Notum did say that it was possible to undo the bond without killing the Radiant until the Fifth Ideal was sworn.

Sylphrena is a Honorspren. The Sibling is not. And they did not do it then and there. As far as we know there is "Debonder" device bought from the Ire somewhere in Lasting Integrity.

Whatever be the case, for sure nobody ever tested divorcing a Bondsmith from The Sibling.

2 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Circumstance is for small amounts of time, if nuclear launch codes came into civilian hands and they used them to stop an alien invasion for example, the government is still going to change the code, whether or not they saved their lives.

A Spren is not the government. In particular they have a problem nreaking their word. The Sibling is a product of Cultivation and Honor. Cultivation is not a fan of regression and stasis. To Honor an oath is an oath.

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