Questions on Transporting Investiture

[Doonl]

In RoW Mraize explains to Shallan that at least one of the goals of the ghostbloods on Roshar is to figure out how to both investiture and invested people long distances in the cognitive realm, as the investiture binds them to the planet, even saying that Shallan herself would be unable to leave thanks to her bond with Pattern. While this seems to in fact be true, since Gavilar in the Epiloge, and even Kalak both seem to be struggling with the same thing. However, I am fairly certain that we have seen examples of people doing exactly what they are trying to figure out. 

The most obvious example would Hoid, who we have seen on all of the shard worlds, and who not only has powers we dont yet really understand, but who has also gathered powers from each of the world we have seen him on. While I could see that maybe being a Mistborn would not stop you, since you yourself dont hold any innate power, and maybe the spren bond give enough connection to the planet through your spren, I would think that if that were the case, that the breaths that Hoid has would have tied him to Nalthis in a similar way. Further, Hoid's bond with Design should ground him on Roshar for the same reasons that Shallan is stuck, and yet we see him on Scadrial in Era 2, which is set after Stormlight 1-5. By himself, I wouldnt be that worried, since Hoid surely knows things Mraize does not, but this is hardly the only example of highly invested people and objects traveling.

Vasher and Vivenna both travel from Nalthis to Roshar, at least one of whom is returned and both has a divine breath, and requires some store of investiture to fuel himself. And, we are reasonable certain that both of them brought awakened swords with them to Roshar, which surely count as invested enough to be difficult to transport. Now again, the ghostbloods dont work with Vasher and Vivenna, so they could know some trick, but given what we have seen, that seems unlikely. 

In WoK we see both Galladon and Demoux on Roshar. Demoux is an allomancer, but as I said earlier, that might not have the same effects. However, Galladon is an Elantrian, who's power is literally linked to the city of Elantris, and who are highly invested themselves. 

I am probably missing a few other examples, but the most important one to me, appear later in RoW, where we see that the box that Mraize gave to Shallan holds an Seon, which are are splinters much like spren, and seem like they must be effected by the same problem. If Mraize has at least 2 Seons, since he was able to talk to Shallan, the question is, why are not only almost every other worldhopper we have seen seemingly capable of transporting investiture, but Mraize himself is in possession of something that should have needed the information he claims to be looking for to get to Roshar. Is he lying to Shallan, and already knows how, or do the ghostbloods simply not know the secret that literally everyone else seems to, and were given the Seons? 

[Clovermite]

My best guess is that the process of making heavily invested objects, or investiture itself, transportable varies for each shard or type of object/investiture. The ghost bloods probably haven't figured out how to do it for stormlight yet, and believe that it will be easier to do than investiture elsewhere.

At the very least, Stormlight seems like the easiest form of nearly-raw investiture to acquire. Breaths must be freely given, and each person is only born with one. The metallic arts tend to make it difficult to generate a surplus of investiture, unless you have access to both Feruchemy and Allomancy. Certainly, Kelsier has access to both...but it's not particularly scalable if only person is capable of generating the investiture. On Sel, we're not sure if there is a way to distill the investiture accessed through Dor, and we know that the magic there tends to be tied to connection with the land, and that the cognitive realm there is dangerous.

Taldain might work well, with the investiture being stored in the sand from the sunlight, but Autonomy locked that place down. Threnody is a mess, and we don't know of a way to get raw investiture from First of the Sun.

 

 

[knightedbishop]

Mistborn Secret History strongly suggests Elantrians associated with the Eeyrie have figured out how to sustain themselves off of Sel. We see them in the Cognitive adjacent to Scadrial, with some kind of energy cable powering their fortress, and them imbibing glowing liquid that seems to renew them. Raw investiture? Liquid from a shardpool? Remains to be seen!

[Doonl]

4 hours ago, Clovermite said:

My best guess is that the process of making heavily invested objects, or investiture itself, transportable varies for each shard or type of object/investiture. The ghost bloods probably haven't figured out how to do it for stormlight yet, and believe that it will be easier to do than investiture elsewhere.

At the very least, Stormlight seems like the easiest form of nearly-raw investiture to acquire. Breaths must be freely given, and each person is only born with one. The metallic arts tend to make it difficult to generate a surplus of investiture, unless you have access to both Feruchemy and Allomancy. Certainly, Kelsier has access to both...but it's not particularly scalable if only person is capable of generating the investiture. On Sel, we're not sure if there is a way to distill the investiture accessed through Dor, and we know that the magic there tends to be tied to connection with the land, and that the cognitive realm there is dangerous.

Taldain might work well, with the investiture being stored in the sand from the sunlight, but Autonomy locked that place down. Threnody is a mess, and we don't know of a way to get raw investiture from First of the Sun.

 

 

This would be my guess except for the fact that Mraize seems to contradict this. He says that the reason that they are trying to figure out how to transport stormlight is that thanks to spheres, it is the easiest form of investiture to transport long distances. It seems like if the Ghostbloods knew how to transport the other forms of investiture across the cognitive realm they would not bother with stormlight. It is explicitly the easiest to transport.

[+Oltux72]

8 hours ago, Doonl said:

While this seems to in fact be true, since Gavilar in the Epiloge, and even Kalak both seem to be struggling with the same thing. However, I am fairly certain that we have seen examples of people doing exactly what they are trying to figure out. 

Kalak is a Herald. As such he is subject to the Oathpact. Concluding that his nature as a Cognitive Shadow would hold him back is unsupported.

8 hours ago, Doonl said:

In WoK we see both Galladon and Demoux on Roshar. Demoux is an allomancer, but as I said earlier, that might not have the same effects. However, Galladon is an Elantrian, who's power is literally linked to the city of Elantris, and who are highly invested themselves.

Yes.

8 hours ago, Doonl said:

 I am probably missing a few other examples, but the most important one to me, appear later in RoW, where we see that the box that Mraize gave to Shallan holds an Seon, which are are splinters much like spren, and seem like they must be effected by the same problem. If Mraize has at least 2 Seons, since he was able to talk to Shallan, the question is, why are not only almost every other worldhopper we have seen seemingly capable of transporting investiture, but Mraize himself is in possession of something that should have needed the information he claims to be looking for to get to Roshar. Is he lying to Shallan, and already knows how, or do the ghostbloods simply not know the secret that literally everyone else seems to, and were given the Seons? 

I am afraid you missed two other examples, which are unfortunately extremely relevant

• Nazrilof's Shadow weapon, which he fired on Scadrial. So it got a shade to Scadrial
• the Ire in Secret History guarded against Cognitive Shadows from Threnody and even had a specialised defensive device against them

The only unambiguous examples we have are

• Kelsier
• Spren
• Stormlight

Now we know that Investiture can be linked to Identity. It may just be that if your Investiture's Identity is not your own but a planet's (or an associated entity like the the Stormfather or a Shard) you are linked to that.

[Kingsdaughter613]

Mraize says the GBs know how to transport Stormlight. They’re trying to free Thaidakar, who is a piece of a Shard in many ways. That’s a completely different level.

[Doonl]

12 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Mraize says the GBs know how to transport Stormlight. They’re trying to free Thaidakar, who is a piece of a Shard in many ways. That’s a completely different level.

I admit that I actually didnt realize this when reading, I thought they could not transport Stormlight. However, it still seems like there are questions that this raises. For example, if the problem is simply that Thaidakar is simply too strongly bound to his native planet, then it would be conceivable that that the same issue would apply to objects like nightblood, which is probably the most highly invested object in the cosmere. Their problem cannot be their status as a cognitive shadow, since the Eyrie are worried about shades from Therenody while on Scadrial. To me, assuming that Thaidakar is in fact Kelsier, which seems like a safe bet at this point, it probably is the case that their direct connection to a shard would be the problem like you said, which is supported by Kalak not being able to leave, given his big connection to Honor. However, it does raise questions about how connected to a shard you have to be in order to not be able to travel. For example, we know that there is a kandra somewhere off of Scadrial, and they are very connected to Harmony. Again Wit is another example, but he also surely knows more than the Ghostbloods. Finally, Vasher is returned, given power directly from Endowment, which I would think would link him in a similar way to how Kalak is linked.

There is also the fact that Mraize knows how to transport Stormlight, but implies it is still not actually attainable, at least not without a great deal of work. Its possible that this is simply the problem of securing a way into the cognitive realm in order to transport the spheres, but that seems unlikely given the Ghostbloods power and reach.

[Kingsdaughter613]

19 minutes ago, Doonl said:

I admit that I actually didnt realize this when reading, I thought they could not transport Stormlight. However, it still seems like there are questions that this raises. For example, if the problem is simply that Thaidakar is simply too strongly bound to his native planet, then it would be conceivable that that the same issue would apply to objects like nightblood, which is probably the most highly invested object in the cosmere. Their problem cannot be their status as a cognitive shadow, since the Eyrie are worried about shades from Therenody while on Scadrial. To me, assuming that Thaidakar is in fact Kelsier, which seems like a safe bet at this point, it probably is the case that their direct connection to a shard would be the problem like you said, which is supported by Kalak not being able to leave, given his big connection to Honor. However, it does raise questions about how connected to a shard you have to be in order to not be able to travel. For example, we know that there is a kandra somewhere off of Scadrial, and they are very connected to Harmony. Again Wit is another example, but he also surely knows more than the Ghostbloods. Finally, Vasher is returned, given power directly from Endowment, which I would think would link him in a similar way to how Kalak is linked.

There is also the fact that Mraize knows how to transport Stormlight, but implies it is still not actually attainable, at least not without a great deal of work. Its possible that this is simply the problem of securing a way into the cognitive realm in order to transport the spheres, but that seems unlikely given the Ghostbloods power and reach.

Not-dead Physical Realm beings don’t have a problem traveling.

Nightblood and the Returned have special rules due to the nature of Endowment’s Investiture, per WoB.

I think Threnodite Shades have a damaged Connection to the Spiritual Realm, which is why they’re so mindless. SR includes the Connection to Threnody, so they can travel due to being disconnected from that Realm.

Both the Herralds and Kell became Shadows via direct Shardic interference. Originally, I think they were practically the same thing. However, once Kelsier ascended that ceased to be true.

As a Sliver, Kelsier’s existence is maintained by a piece of Preservation that is intrinsic to him now. The vary nature of what he is has been fundamentally altered. If Kelsier was stuck in a gemstone I think he would be fine. He’s no longer sustained by his ties to Preservation (which might be cut by such an act), but by the Sliver that is his essence. He’s much closer to a Spren then the Heralds are, in some ways.

It might be why we’ve been told that Kell could act as a Spren in a Nahel bond, but were RAFOd when specifying if ‘due to his being a Cognitive Shadow’ and RAFOd again with Threnodite Shades. (Or Brandon didn’t realize he’d answered once or he changed his mind...) It’s possible that Cognitive Shadows can’t, but a Cognitive SLIVER can.

So they’re not the same thing any more, but I’m not sure Kelsier realizes that.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

On 12/9/2020 at 5:37 PM, Doonl said:

the breaths that Hoid has would have tied him to Nalthis in a similar way

Brandon's said somewhere that the nature of the shard, Endowment, means the breaths become more connected to the holder than the planet. They're "given away" more than light is from roshar

[+Aletus]

On a tangent, are Kelsier and Hoid the only currently living Mistborn in the Cosmere? 

[Aspiring Writer]

35 minutes ago, Arch1tect said:

On a tangent, are Kelsier and Hoid the only currently living Mistborn in the Cosmere? 

Possibly.

Now, the question of transporting investiture annoys me as well, but I believe that there are different levels of diffcultly for transporting investiture, breath being the easiest and others being extremely annoying.

[Lupis]

1 hour ago, Arch1tect said:

On a tangent, are Kelsier and Hoid the only currently living Mistborn in the Cosmere? 

Probably, although I'm not convinced Spook isn't still kicking around somewhere. It also depends on your definition of living...

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, Arch1tect said:

On a tangent, are Kelsier and Hoid the only currently living Mistborn in the Cosmere? 

Marsh is still around for sure at the time of SA. Although he strictly speaking likely has only a subset of abilities.

We also obviously have no account of all beads of Lerasium.

7 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Not-dead Physical Realm beings don’t have a problem traveling.

Kelsier is strongly implied to be reincarnated.

7 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Nightblood and the Returned have special rules due to the nature of Endowment’s Investiture, per WoB.

I think Threnodite Shades have a damaged Connection to the Spiritual Realm, which is why they’re so mindless. SR includes the Connection to Threnody, so they can travel due to being disconnected from that Realm.

Well, maybe, but that does not help us due to being anachronistic. Secret History happened at a time when people on Threnody still chose to become Cognitive Shadows with the "proper rituals". In fact it looks like the arrival of the Evil happened between Secret History and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell. The Shades likely existed already but were still on an unsettled continent.
The Cognitive Shadows the Ire and their guards talked about were not Shades as we saw them.

7 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Both the Herralds and Kell became Shadows via direct Shardic interference. Originally, I think they were practically the same thing. However, once Kelsier ascended that ceased to be true.

Is this actually true?

Preservation told Kelsier that he would not reach the well in time. That indicates that reaching the well in time would do the job. Preservation just literally pushed him into it.

And what kept the Heralds alive? Honor or the Oathpact?

7 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

It might be why we’ve been told that Kell could act as a Spren in a Nahel bond, but were RAFOd when specifying if ‘due to his being a Cognitive Shadow’ and RAFOd again with Threnodite Shades. (Or Brandon didn’t realize he’d answered once or he changed his mind...) It’s possible that Cognitive Shadows can’t, but a Cognitive SLIVER can.

The problem does not end there.

• Why would Rayse desire Dalinar's soul if he could not leave Roshar?
• How did Seons get to Roshar?

[Kingsdaughter613]

5 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Marsh is still around for sure at the time of SA. Although he strictly speaking likely has only a subset of abilities.

We also obviously have no account of all beads of Lerasium.

Kelsier is strongly implied to be reincarnated.

Well, maybe, but that does not help us due to being anachronistic. Secret History happened at a time when people on Threnody still chose to become Cognitive Shadows with the "proper rituals". In fact it looks like the arrival of the Evil happened between Secret History and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell. The Shades likely existed already but were still on an unsettled continent.
The Cognitive Shadows the Ire and their guards talked about were not Shades as we saw them.

Is this actually true?

Preservation told Kelsier that he would not reach the well in time. That indicates that reaching the well in time would do the job. Preservation just literally pushed him into it.

And what kept the Heralds alive? Honor or the Oathpact?

The problem does not end there.

• Why would Rayse desire Dalinar's soul if he could not leave Roshar?
• How did Seons get to Roshar?

Kelsier is a CS attached to a body. I meant never-died brings.

We really need a proper Threnody timeline. We know that Threnodites were able to become Shadows before Nazh left Threnody. We don’t know if that was still accurate when Kell meets Khriss and Nazh. I still think Ambition’s death did something to the link between Cognitive and Spiritual though.

What I meant was that Kell was sustained due to a direct Connection to Preservation’s Investiture. Cutting it at that point would probably have killed him.

The Oathpact gives the Heralds a similar Connection to Honor. Without it, they die.

I think a Shard can safely cut the Connection to a planet without damaging the Connection to a Shard.

Seons are similar to Spren. I think the GBs know how to get Spren offworld, but they haven’t yet been able to extend it to Shadows.

[+Oltux72]

42 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Kelsier is a CS attached to a body. I meant never-died brings.

We really need a proper Threnody timeline. We know that Threnodites were able to become Shadows before Nazh left Threnody. We don’t know if that was still accurate when Kell meets Khriss and Nazh. I still think Ambition’s death did something to the link between Cognitive and Spiritual though.

Very well. Threnody is fascinating but not on topic here.

42 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

What I meant was that Kell was sustained due to a direct Connection to Preservation’s Investiture. Cutting it at that point would probably have killed him.

So can we agree that the independent issue of getting a CS out of a system does not exist? The core issue is that some Investiture is tied to a place and if a CS happens to be made of such Investiture they will be bound otherwise they won't be. Why Investiture is tied to a place is an issue to be explored.

42 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

The Oathpact gives the Heralds a similar Connection to Honor. Without it, they die.

Small problem. Honor is dead.

42 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think a Shard can safely cut the Connection to a planet without damaging the Connection to a Shard.

Seons are similar to Spren. I think the GBs know how to get Spren offworld, but they haven’t yet been able to extend it to Shadows.

That looks like circular reasoning to me. Mraize tells us that Thaidakar has an issue similar to the Heralds. The Heralds are subject to the Oathpact.

[Kingsdaughter613]

38 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Very well. Threnody is fascinating but not on topic here.

So can we agree that the independent issue of getting a CS out of a system does not exist? The core issue is that some Investiture is tied to a place and if a CS happens to be made of such Investiture they will be bound otherwise they won't be. Why Investiture is tied to a place is an issue to be explored.

Small problem. Honor is dead.

That looks like circular reasoning to me. Mraize tells us that Thaidakar has an issue similar to the Heralds. The Heralds are subject to the Oathpact.

The Oathpact is their Connection to Honor, through which they are continually infused with Investiture. Honor may be dead, but the effects of his actions remain. The Knights Radiant can still use his surges, including Adhesion, for example. The power still exists, even Splintered and the Heralds are connected to that.

The GBs seem to know how to transport Splinters, like Seons and Spren, across worlds. Thaidakar and the Heralds seem to be a separate problem.

[Doonl]

3 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

The Oathpact is their Connection to Honor, through which they are continually infused with Investiture. Honor may be dead, but the effects of his actions remain. The Knights Radiant can still use his surges, including Adhesion, for example. The power still exists, even Splintered and the Heralds are connected to that.

The GBs seem to know how to transport Splinters, like Seons and Spren, across worlds. Thaidakar and the Heralds seem to be a separate problem.

So what we seem to have decided, mostly through process of elimination, is that the reason for Thaidakar and the Heralds inability to leave their planets is their direct connection to a shard which has invested into that planet. However, I still feel like that can't be the whole story. For one thing, it raises the question of how connected to a shard you have to be to have this difficulty. I mean spren are literally pieces of the power of shards. I would think that you cant get much more connected to a shard than that. Of course the Heralds and Thaidakar have different ways in which they are connected, but all that does is raise more questions as to what the difference is functionally. 

Also, I think Kelsier and Kalak might actually have different problems. I dont think that Kelsier is unable to leave because he was within Preservation's perpendicularity, but only because he held the power of preservation. The reason that I think this might be the case is because Todium seems to have no doubt in their ability to get Dalinar off of Roshar, despite Dalinar not only being bonded to the Stormfather, but also regularly summoning and standing within Honors perpendicularity, which I would think would have a similar effect as what happened to Kelsier. For Kalak, I think that once again there is a possible alternative reason than his connection with Honor. It is possible that the Oathpact itself is stopping him, since if Odium cant leave the system, maybe no one involved in the Oathpact can.

[Lupis]

2 minutes ago, Doonl said:

So what we seem to have decided, mostly through process of elimination, is that the reason for Thaidakar and the Heralds inability to leave their planets is their direct connection to a shard which has invested into that planet. However, I still feel like that can't be the whole story. For one thing, it raises the question of how connected to a shard you have to be to have this difficulty. I mean spren are literally pieces of the power of shards. I would think that you cant get much more connected to a shard than that. Of course the Heralds and Thaidakar have different ways in which they are connected, but all that does is raise more questions as to what the difference is functionally. 

Also, I think Kelsier and Kalak might actually have different problems. I dont think that Kelsier is unable to leave because he was within Preservation's perpendicularity, but only because he held the power of preservation. The reason that I think this might be the case is because Todium seems to have no doubt in their ability to get Dalinar off of Roshar, despite Dalinar not only being bonded to the Stormfather, but also regularly summoning and standing within Honors perpendicularity, which I would think would have a similar effect as what happened to Kelsier. For Kalak, I think that once again there is a possible alternative reason than his connection with Honor. It is possible that the Oathpact itself is stopping him, since if Odium cant leave the system, maybe no one involved in the Oathpact can.

Yeah, I've been of the opinion that whatever is left of the oathpact that is holding Odium in system affects everyone involved in the oathpact. At least until I see anything that is contrary to that anyway.

[+Oltux72]

18 minutes ago, Doonl said:

Also, I think Kelsier and Kalak might actually have different problems. I dont think that Kelsier is unable to leave because he was within Preservation's perpendicularity, but only because he held the power of preservation.

That is the one thing we have very solid counterevidence against.

Kelsier felt a force drawing him back on the way to the Ire. There he stole the gadget that let him take up Preservation. So it happened before he became a Sliver.

[Kingsdaughter613]

14 minutes ago, Doonl said:

So what we seem to have decided, mostly through process of elimination, is that the reason for Thaidakar and the Heralds inability to leave their planets is their direct connection to a shard which has invested into that planet. However, I still feel like that can't be the whole story. For one thing, it raises the question of how connected to a shard you have to be to have this difficulty. I mean spren are literally pieces of the power of shards. I would think that you cant get much more connected to a shard than that. Of course the Heralds and Thaidakar have different ways in which they are connected, but all that does is raise more questions as to what the difference is functionally. 

Also, I think Kelsier and Kalak might actually have different problems. I dont think that Kelsier is unable to leave because he was within Preservation's perpendicularity, but only because he held the power of preservation. The reason that I think this might be the case is because Todium seems to have no doubt in their ability to get Dalinar off of Roshar, despite Dalinar not only being bonded to the Stormfather, but also regularly summoning and standing within Honors perpendicularity, which I would think would have a similar effect as what happened to Kelsier. For Kalak, I think that once again there is a possible alternative reason than his connection with Honor. It is possible that the Oathpact itself is stopping him, since if Odium cant leave the system, maybe no one involved in the Oathpact can.

Kell couldn’t leave the system before he Ascended. And he can’t leave now. But there are different reasons for the restrictions.

Originally he WAS in the same position as the Heralds are currently. He was being directly and continuously infused with Preservation’s Investiture, just as the Heralds are infused with Honor’s. The exact mechanism was different, but the underlying concept was the same.

Post-Ascension, Kelsier no longer needs that Connection. He’s now a Sliver, fundamentally altered by the power he held. He IS a sliver of Preservation, similar to how Spren are splinters of Honor and Cultivation. This Investiture is intrinsic to him, which means he actually would be safe in a gem stone! But he’s still Connected to the greater whole that is in Harmony.

And he still has his original problem, as the original Connection still exists despite it no longer being necessary.

 

I see Spren and Heralds as having two different issues. Splinters (and Slivers) are drawn to the greater power that birthed them. I think of it a bit like a planet’s gravitational pull or a magnetic field. The power WANTS to be one again, so it draws the Splinters toward itself. If you can get a Splinter (or Sliver) far enough away they escape that pull and are free. Doing this is a trick the GBs (and some others) know.

Heralds have the issue you described. They’re tethered to the power sustaining them and don’t know how to break it without dying.

Kelsier has BOTH problems. He’s being pulled toward Harmony AND he’s tethered to the Shard. I suspect Kelsier’s concerned that trying to break the tether could lead to the Sliver somehow being drawn back to the greater whole. Or he’s unaware that there are two problems, not one. Or he may just not know how to break the tether at all.

[Doonl]

40 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That is the one thing we have very solid counterevidence against.

Kelsier felt a force drawing him back on the way to the Ire. There he stole the gadget that let him take up Preservation. So it happened before he became a Sliver.

You are right that Kelsier was held back by the power of Preservation at that time. The point I was making is that I dont think that that is the hurdle that the Ghostbloods are trying to clear. I think they already know how to get around that, given that they can move stormlight and spren. However, the connection created by actually holding the power of preservaton and becoming a Sliver is likley completely different, or at least much harder to deal with

 

37 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I see Spren and Heralds as having two different issues. Splinters (and Slivers) are drawn to the greater power that birthed them. I think of it a bit like a planet’s gravitational pull or a magnetic field. The power WANTS to be one again, so it draws the Splinters toward itself. If you can get a Splinter (or Sliver) far enough away they escape that pull and are free. Doing this is a trick the GBs (and some others) know.

Heralds have the issue you described. They’re tethered to the power sustaining them and don’t know how to break it without dying.

I think this is a great way to look at it, and now I really want to know what the Ghostbloods know how to do in order to Transport investiture. The only thing I can think of other than what we do in real life of go really fast is that maybe they are putting what they want to transport into an Aluminum box. Given how Aluminum blocks investiture, it seems likely that it could be used to cut whatever is inside off from the larger reserve of power it is connected to.

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 hour ago, Doonl said:

You are right that Kelsier was held back by the power of Preservation at that time. The point I was making is that I dont think that that is the hurdle that the Ghostbloods are trying to clear. I think they already know how to get around that, given that they can move stormlight and spren. However, the connection created by actually holding the power of preservaton and becoming a Sliver is likley completely different, or at least much harder to deal with

 

I think this is a great way to look at it, and now I really want to know what the Ghostbloods know how to do in order to Transport investiture. The only thing I can think of other than what we do in real life of go really fast is that maybe they are putting what they want to transport into an Aluminum box. Given how Aluminum blocks investiture, it seems likely that it could be used to cut whatever is inside off from the larger reserve of power it is connected to.

I think Seon’s go in Aluminum boxes and Spren go in gemstones and then boxes. But Aluminum almost certainly plays a role.

I think you and I have different opinions on the problem. I think the problem is Kell’s original Connection to Preservation, which is similar to the Heralds. You seem to think the problem is Kelsier being a Sliver, which I view as being solved in the way as the Spren problem. 

[Doonl]

12 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think Seon’s go in Aluminum boxes and Spren go in gemstones and then boxes. But Aluminum almost certainly plays a role.

I think you and I have different opinions on the problem. I think the problem is Kell’s original Connection to Preservation, which is similar to the Heralds. You seem to think the problem is Kelsier being a Sliver, which I view as being solved in the way as the Spren problem. 

Here is the explanation for why I think that Kel's connection to Preservation is not the specific problem that the Ghostbloods are dealing with. I would think that any investiture has a similar problem, for example stormlight is inherently connected to Honor, hence the difficulty in transporting it. However, the GB have stated that they have cleared that barrier. While its possible that Kel's connection from being in the well is a little different, I dont think it is difficult enough, especially given the relative ease with which returned seem to travel. Even if it is easier for them thanks to the nature of Endowment, I wouldnt think that would remove the barrier entirely. By contrast, we have never seen a character who held the (close to) full power of a shard and then gave that up. We know that holding such power has a lasting effect even after giving it up because (Dawnshard spoilers)

Spoiler

Brandon said Hoid was once a Dawnshard and that is why he cant hurt people

Obviously I could be wrong since we still dont fully understand the Mechanics at play, but it just seems like Kel's origional connection to Preservation is not a large enough tie, or different enough from what we have seen transported before, to be such a barrier to the GB. 

As a slight tangent, it is also important to note that the reason for Kel's problems could be something we are completely unaware of, since who knows what he spend the 300ish years between Era 1 and Stormlight doing other than joining the GBs

[Raven Wilder]

I'm pretty sure Mraize said they hadn't figured out how to transport stormlight off-world yet. When talking about how easily transportable it is, I think he was comparing it to stuff like Elantrian or Allomantic Investiture (which is extremely difficult to remove from the special individuals it empowers).

The most likely explanation is that the techniques needed for transporting Investiture across worlds are different for each form of Investiture; what works for the Dor won't necessarily work for Breaths or stormlight or metalminds, so each one is a new puzzle that needs cracking.

[Honorless]

For highly Invested people it'd be more difficult to leave their system but I think what makes it really difficult for Knights Radiant to go very far from their system is their spren bond and it is the spren who cannot leave the system easily. We do have WoBs confirming this and the fact is that the spren live in the Cognitive Realm, which is what Worldhoppers use to hop around, with an existential threat on the horizon, why haven't they left? They can't, they're too Connected.

Another thing that might be holding back the Knights Radiant is Stormlight: as a form of Investiture, it is very Rosharan, it is tightly Connected to the planet and a crucial part of its ecology. Maybe that Connection holds them back too. Compare this to Allomancy, they are fine to move around, the Investiture they use is still in the Spiritual Realm, the metal is just the key to access it. I think the same goes for Feruchemy, the metalminds themselves are Invested but what's stored there is actually still stored in the Spiritual Realm, I think.

As for the Heralds and Thaidakar / Kelsier, things are even more difficult for them maybe because of their nature as Cognitive Shadows, the Returned are also Cognitive Shadows but the Five Scholars are considered early Cosmere scholars, maybe they devised a way to get off-world, it's also possible that Endowment's nature allows them to travel more easily, kinda like how Breaths are transferable.