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Valigus

Does storm light give enhanced strength?

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I was thinking about who would win in a fight a mistborn or radiant and I remembered that dalinar reportedly lifted a stone that takes about ten men to lift which accounting for gravity on roshar and based on how much the average American man can lift means it took about 4200+ Newton’s which is well beyond normal human levels by a lot, even if my math is woefully wrong he is still managing feats well beyond normal. So does stormlight provide a strength buff or is dalinar just super strong on top of that dalinar is while strong still getting on in years.

so then I wondered how mu stronger is it then pewter since if stormlight can already heal, grant a coordination bonus, increase speed, etc... and increase strength by as much as this appears to this is ridiculous, the best feat I can think of for pewter is vin crushing a skull with a headbutt which is about 2300 newtons

correct me if my math is wrong but this is insanely overpowered if this is a universal strength buff. The fact that we haven’t noticed it is odd but I think it ultimately comes down to most fights with radiants they either have shards where it doesn’t matter, are fighting shardplate people or fused with likely similar levels of strength. 

Edited by Valigus
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16 minutes ago, Valigus said:

I was thinking about who would win in a fight a mistborn or radiant and I remembered that dalinar reportedly lifted a stone that takes about ten men to lift which accounting for gravity on roshar and based on how much the average American man can lift means it took about 4200+ Newton’s which is well beyond normal human levels by a lot, even if my math is woefully wrong he is still managing feats well beyond normal. So does stormlight provide a strength buff or is dalinar just super strong on top of that dalinar is while strong still getting on in years.

so then I wondered how mu stronger is it then pewter since if stormlight can already heal, grant a coordination bonus, increase speed, etc... and increase strength by as much as this appears to this is ridiculous, the best feat I can think of for pewter is vin crushing a skull with a headbutt which is about 2300 newtons

correct me if my math is wrong but this is insanely overpowered if this is a universal strength buff. The fact that we haven’t noticed it is odd but I think it ultimately comes down to most fights with radiants they either have shards where it doesn’t matter, are fighting shardplate people or fused with likely similar levels of strength. 

You are right that it would be overpowered, but Dalinar lifting that stone was not because of stormlight:

Quote

TheDanfromSpace

Could Dalinar lift stones of equivalent weight to the statue [in Thaylen City]? Assuming enough Stormlight. Or was that extra strength part of his Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

You are correct--Dalinar could not lift stones of equivalent weight in other circumstances.

General Reddit 2020 (March 5, 2020)

 

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2 minutes ago, Ookla the Unnamable said:

You are right that it would be overpowered, but Dalinar lifting that stone was not because of stormlight:

 

Do how did he lift it then?

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Just now, Valigus said:

Do how did he lift it then?

Probably something related to his Bondsmith powers. Maybe the stone wanted to be whole, so it changed its weight?

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1 minute ago, Ookla the Unnamable said:

Probably something related to his Bondsmith powers. Maybe the stone wanted to be whole, so it changed its weight?

Tension changing the density of the stone maybe?

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But if that is the solution could be like punch a person and make his fist super Dense on impact?

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1 minute ago, Valigus said:

Tension changing the density of the stone maybe?

Either that or tension gave strength to Dalinar, or Dalinar was subconciously using his surges to manipulate the stone like a Stoneward could.

Edited by Ookla the Unnamable
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Just now, Ookla the Unnamable said:

Either that or tension gave strength to Dalinar, or Dalinar was subconciously using his surges to manipulate the stone like a Stoneward could.

What if dalinar got a pair of knuckle dusters and just started going to town by increasing the density on impact?

actually windrunners could do it too, lash a sword that weighs a ton and then just hit someone with it and if you wanted to really do some damage Vance. The lashing right before impact

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Just now, Valigus said:

What if dalinar got a pair of knuckle dusters and just started going to town by increasing the density on impact?

He might be able to, but I feel that Dalinar would be more effective using his other powers.

1 minute ago, Valigus said:

actually windrunners could do it too, lash a sword that weighs a ton and then just hit someone with it and if you wanted to really do some damage Vance. The lashing right before impact

Yeah, they could. It would be better to lash it a lot before the impact though, as I don't think lashing increases mass, but gravity.

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19 minutes ago, Ookla the Unnamable said:

He might be able to, but I feel that Dalinar would be more effective using his other powers.

Yeah, they could. It would be better to lash it a lot before the impact though, as I don't think lashing increases mass, but gravity.

Yeah but you could take a high mass object and make it lighter

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I think that what Stormlight gives isn't great strength per se, but an adrenaline like ability that lets them push their body to the limits. Kaladin at the end of Oathbringer outright states that while it gives great endurance, it doesn't bestow great strength. A human running on adrenaline can lift potentially up to a ton for a brief period. Stormlight's healing properties go a long way towards this too, constantly healing the damage and rejuvenating stamina. 

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11 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

I think that what Stormlight gives isn't great strength per se, but an adrenaline like ability that lets them push their body to the limits. Kaladin at the end of Oathbringer outright states that while it gives great endurance, it doesn't bestow great strength. A human running on adrenaline can lift potentially up to a ton for a brief period. Stormlight's healing properties go a long way towards this too, constantly healing the damage and rejuvenating stamina. 

That’s fair, but honestly allowing a human being to operate at peak adrenaline fueled strength is basically low level super strength, that’s basically pewter too it’s like super adrenaline 

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17 minutes ago, Valigus said:

That’s fair, but honestly allowing a human being to operate at peak adrenaline fueled strength is basically low level super strength, that’s basically pewter too it’s like super adrenaline 

Pewter is more than that though. Tiny little Vin was able to almost casually slay Koloss with a sword that was larger than she was so the strength Pewter gives would still be better. Then you get all the other physical boosts Pewter gives that are strictly better. Only the endurance compares and only the healing is straight up better for Stormlight.

Edit: in every day life I would prefer Pewter, but if I was a soldier, I would choose Stormlight just for the healing.

Edited by StanLemon
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18 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Pewter is more than that though. Tiny little Vin was able to almost casually slay Koloss with a sword that was larger than she was so the strength Pewter gives would still be better. Then you get all the other physical boosts Pewter gives that are strictly better. Only the endurance compares and only the healing is straight up better for Stormlight.

It's also worth considering that Pewter gives a fixed physical boost that's actually independent of your own physical capabilities. A bigger/brawnier pewter thug doesn't get a bigger magical strength boost, just his mundane strength added to that. It's why Vin being small allowed her to jump so disproportionately higher than a pewter thug with a foot or two on her (frankly Vin could probably casually out hop Singer War Form's while on pewter). Which is a big difference compared to Stormlight "merely" allowing the body to run at 100% of its theoretical limit for an extended period of time.

Course the healing is really the biggest deal. Stormlight by itself automatically makes someone something between a regular Bloodmaker and a compounded one. That'd be worth it even without all the other physical boosts. Much less the various surges Surgebinders possess.

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On 12/9/2020 at 7:23 PM, StanLemon said:

Pewter is more than that though. Tiny little Vin was able to almost casually slay Koloss with a sword that was larger than she was so the strength Pewter gives would still be better. Then you get all the other physical boosts Pewter gives that are strictly better. Only the endurance compares and only the healing is straight up better for Stormlight.

Edit: in every day life I would prefer Pewter, but if I was a soldier, I would choose Stormlight just for the healing.

I also believe she was using iron and stee on the sword

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3 hours ago, Valigus said:

I also believe she was using iron and stee on the sword

She wasn't, she was almost out of Steel and Iron after doing the horshoe running maneuver.

Quote

She ducked to the side as another koloss attacked. Coins didn't stop these things, and they all weighed too much for her to Push them anyway without an anchor. Besides, her steel and iron reserves were extremely low

She swiped, pewter aiding her strength as she cut off an arm from one koloss, then a leg from another, before finally going for the head of a third.

Edited by StanLemon
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On 12/9/2020 at 0:14 PM, Ookla the Unnamable said:

You are right that it would be overpowered, but Dalinar lifting that stone was not because of stormlight:

Quote

TheDanfromSpace

Could Dalinar lift stones of equivalent weight to the statue [in Thaylen City]? Assuming enough Stormlight. Or was that extra strength part of his Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

You are correct--Dalinar could not lift stones of equivalent weight in other circumstances.

General Reddit 2020 (March 5, 2020)

 

Thinking the Unnamable notting of the understanding. Saying of the Brandon ising of Dalinar, notting of having the strength of enough.

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15 hours ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

Thinking the Unnamable notting of the understanding. Saying of the Brandon ising of Dalinar, notting of having the strength of enough.

Why are you talking in high imperial? I am understanding it. The questioner specifically stated that Dalinar had stormlight.

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14 minutes ago, Ookla the Unnamable said:

The questioner specifically stated that Dalinar had stormlight.

Yes, but you originally said:

On 12/9/2020 at 0:14 PM, Ookla the Unnamable said:

You are right that it would be overpowered, but Dalinar lifting that stone was not because of stormlight:

Quote

TheDanfromSpace

Could Dalinar lift stones of equivalent weight to the statue [in Thaylen City]? Assuming enough Stormlight. Or was that extra strength part of his Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

You are correct--Dalinar could not lift stones of equivalent weight in other circumstances.

General Reddit 2020 (March 5, 2020)

 

when the WoB clearly states that it was because of stormlight.

As for the High Imperial, see here.

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3 minutes ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

when the WoB clearly states that it was because of stormlight.

As for the High Imperial, see here.

What the WoB states is that Dalinar, with Stormlight, could not lift a stone of equivalent weight under normal conditions.

Also, I know what High Imperial is.

Edited by Ookla the Unnamable
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12 minutes ago, Ookla the Unnamable said:

What the WoB states is that Dalinar, with Stormlight, could not lift a stone of equivalent weight under normal conditions.

Also, I know what High Imperial is.

I guess it comes down to interpretation then. I think it's pretty clear that it says Dalinar could not lift that stone without stormlight, but because he had stormlight, he was able to push his body far enough to get that stone back into place. Then, he used his surges (possibly his resonance) to reattach it to its supports. I think Brandon could've answered more clearly, so I admit that you might be right. Just, what I got from that was not the same thing you got from it.

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Just now, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

I guess it comes down to interpretation then. I think it's pretty clear that it says Dalinar could not lift that stone without stormlight, but because he had stormlight, he was able to push his body far enough to get that stone back into place. Then, he used his surges (possibly his resonance) to reattach it to its supports. I think Brandon could've answered more clearly, so I admit that you might be right. Just, what I got from that was not the same thing you got from it.

Well, Dalinar having such vastly increased strength doesn't fit with the other exhibits of strength we have seen, as Kaladin was surprised when Rock was able to draw the Shardbow.

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18 minutes ago, Ookla the Unnamable said:

Well, Dalinar having such vastly increased strength doesn't fit with the other exhibits of strength we have seen, as Kaladin was surprised when Rock was able to draw the Shardbow.

That's a very good point. I still don't think we should rule it out though, since Dalinar's a bondsmith. It may be that bondsmiths - or possibly just anyone who bonds the Stormfather - do get increased strength from stormlight. I don't think that's too much of a stretch. But, you have just answered the original question. If stormlight does grant extra strength, it is negligible. (Unless you're a bondsmith maybe, but we only have one data point there, so best to wait for more information.)

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I wonder if there is something about Dalinar that just makes him that much stronger and tougher than normal people. The things he does in the flashbacks in Oathbringer seem superhuman long before he bonded the Stormfather

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While it probably can't account for everything, we should bear in mind that Roshar only has about 70% of Earth's gravity, so lifting heavy objects isn't quite as difficult there.

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