Urithiru gem archive, 10-12 sapphire

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

I'm slightly confused by a recording from the Urithiru gem archive, revealed as the epigraph of Oathbringer, chapter 86. From drawer 10-12, the sapphire contains the message:

Quote

My spren claims that recording this will be good for me, so here I go. Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don't think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?

Now, I don't know if this has been confirmed, but based on context given by other gemstones in the archive, as well as a little research of my own, I think it's pretty obvious that sapphires in the Urithiru gemstone archive are recorded by windrunners. Our main boy Kaladin provides us with plenty of insight on what it's like to be a windrunner, so we know they're all about protection. However, the wording of the gemstone recording implies that the unnamed windrunner thinks that swearing the fourth ideal will make it more difficult for him to help people. Unfortunately, Kaladin has not sworn the fourth ideal yet, so we don't know what it is, but you know it'll have to do with protection. [NOTE: Keep in mind that I'm writing this prior to reading Rhythm of War, so while I'm confident many of you know what the fourth ideal for the windrunners is, I would appreciate it if you didn't spoil anything, even minor stuff. thanks.]

So basically, how is protection in conflict with helping people? Perhaps it's something like the situation ~3/4 of the way through Oathbringer, when Kaladin wants to protect a group of parshmen, but also wants to protect his friends from the wall guard, and he can't help both. But then, since Kaladin hasn't sworn the 4th ideal at that point, that's clearly a problem that exists for pre-4th-ideal windrunners, and it doesn't make sense that the 4th ideal would change that in any way. I don't know, it just doesn't make any sense. If anybody has another idea that does make sense, I'd like to hear it **UNLESS** it spoils something big for RoW or Dawnshard. I'm still on my way through Oathbringer for a refresher, and then I'll dip into the new stuff. Thanks.

[Knight of Iron]

I'm not sure what I can say on it considering I've finished Rhythm of War.

Have a copy if you need one: 

[Karger]

6 hours ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

So basically, how is protection in conflict with helping people? Perhaps it's something like the situation ~3/4 of the way through Oathbringer, when Kaladin wants to protect a group of parshmen, but also wants to protect his friends from the wall guard, and he can't help both. But then, since Kaladin hasn't sworn the 4th ideal at that point, that's clearly a problem that exists for pre-4th-ideal windrunners, and it doesn't make sense that the 4th ideal would change that in any way. I don't know, it just doesn't make any sense. If anybody has another idea that does make sense, I'd like to hear it **UNLESS** it spoils something big for RoW or Dawnshard. I'm still on my way through Oathbringer for a refresher, and then I'll dip into the new stuff. Thanks.

In my signature you can find my pattern of radiant oaths theory where I go through each order and explain what I think their oaths are and why.  It has not been updated for RoW so it should be safe.

[Dracnor]

6 hours ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

I'm slightly confused by a recording from the Urithiru gem archive, revealed as the epigraph of Oathbringer, chapter 86. From drawer 10-12, the sapphire contains the message:

Now, I don't know if this has been confirmed, but based on context given by other gemstones in the archive, as well as a little research of my own, I think it's pretty obvious that sapphires in the Urithiru gemstone archive are recorded by windrunners. Our main boy Kaladin provides us with plenty of insight on what it's like to be a windrunner, so we know they're all about protection. However, the wording of the gemstone recording implies that the unnamed windrunner thinks that swearing the fourth ideal will make it more difficult for him to help people. Unfortunately, Kaladin has not sworn the fourth ideal yet, so we don't know what it is, but you know it'll have to do with protection. [NOTE: Keep in mind that I'm writing this prior to reading Rhythm of War, so while I'm confident many of you know what the fourth ideal for the windrunners is, I would appreciate it if you didn't spoil anything, even minor stuff. thanks.]

So basically, how is protection in conflict with helping people? Perhaps it's something like the situation ~3/4 of the way through Oathbringer, when Kaladin wants to protect a group of parshmen, but also wants to protect his friends from the wall guard, and he can't help both. But then, since Kaladin hasn't sworn the 4th ideal at that point, that's clearly a problem that exists for pre-4th-ideal windrunners, and it doesn't make sense that the 4th ideal would change that in any way. I don't know, it just doesn't make any sense. If anybody has another idea that does make sense, I'd like to hear it **UNLESS** it spoils something big for RoW or Dawnshard. I'm still on my way through Oathbringer for a refresher, and then I'll dip into the new stuff. Thanks.

If it's anything like the third, the fourth will be a resolution of a mind conflict. Example for the third :

- I want Elhokar to die, the world would be far far better off without him

- He's one who cannot protect himself.

What do I do ? The third ideal says that you should protect him anyway, that's the windrunner answer. But it doesn't make it easier, and in fact makes it harder, because you have to save people who you'd want to get rid off. And here, a utilitarist could also add that it makes protecting people harder : saving a few can mean huge damage to a majority, if the few makes bad actions/decisions.

TLDR : swearing an Ideal doesn't remove an issue. It's just swearing you will act a certain way, and it won't be easier because of the Ideal.

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

I see. Well then, thank you all very much, and thank you for not spoiling stuff.

I came across this while researching for a Heroes of Might and Magic II scenario I was building. If any of you play that game, or are just interested in anything to do with the Stormlight Archives, I recommend you follow this post: 

The scenario will be relatively easy, and for that reason, maybe it'll be a good one for beginners to play to introduce themselves to the best strategy game, nay, the best game of ALL TIME.

So anyway, I just thought I would advertise the map, as I'm very proud of it and it's something I think you can all enjoy.