Awesomness

First Desolation Timeline

2 posts in this topic

Hello!

I've been trying to work out the timeline for the first events we know that happened in Roshar.  We know the Singers "betrayed" the Spren and I am extremely curious! I don't think we have clues about what happened, but this is what we know:

1 - Roshar was inhabited by Singers and the shards Honour and Cultivation

2 - Humans arrive on Roshar after destroying their original planed with surgebinding.   

  • Ishar was a bondsmith and the one able to transport the people
  • Odium came with them to Roshar
  • Questions: how did investiture work in Ashyn? Via Honorblades? Did the Honorblades come from Ashyn? If so, why honor blades?

3 - Once the humans arrive, the Singers give then Shinnovar.

4 - We know eventually 2 things happen:

  • Humans start conquering other regions
  • War with the Singers, they betray the spren and loose their connection to them.
  • Is this when the Fused and Unmade show up?

5 - The oath pact is made, the Heralds vanish Odium. 

  • Question: what happens with the singers between Desolations (before the false Desolation and imprisonment of BAM)?

6 - Spren imitate the honor blades and give surges to humans. 

  • Question: surges are based on Roshar´s surges, were Ashyn ´s the same? Or maybe, the Honorblades and Surges were created after humans came to Roshar... I think this makes more sense.

7 - The cycle of Desolations begin.

 

Lets discuss if this timeline is correct (I'm probably forgetting something!) and what may have happened to make the Singers side with Odium.

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22 hours ago, Awesomness said:

Questions: how did investiture work in Ashyn? Via Honorblades? Did the Honorblades come from Ashyn? If so, why honor blades?

I don't think so.  Honor gave the 10 blades to the heralds directly according to the Stormfather in OB.  Considering Ash might not have been born yet...

22 hours ago, Awesomness said:

3 - Once the humans arrive, the Singers give then Shinnovar.

It may have been the shards directly.  Shinnovar in of itself is weird as traditional rosharan ecology does not apply there for unknown reasons.

22 hours ago, Awesomness said:
  • Humans start conquering other regions
  • War with the Singers, they betray the spren and loose their connection to them.
  • Is this when the Fused and Unmade show up?

  The singer betrayal of the spren could mean a lot of things.  All we know is that the singers did something that offended the spren so grievously that basically every spren living calls them enemies.  We also don't know the exact nature of the human conquest.  It may have started as a prolonged border dispute or other conflict.  We don't know which side were the aggressors or what their caucus belli was.  However I would wager that the fused only really showed up after hostilities if not open warfar broke out.  People don't generally sign up to be eternal warriors for an unknown god unless they are REALLY angry.  We are still without answers as to the unmade but I would theorize that they were great spren native to roshar.

23 hours ago, Awesomness said:

5 - The oath pact is made, the Heralds vanish Odium. 

Actually the Heralds just trap the fused.  Odium may have been trapped before or afterwards and that was done by Honor not the Heralds.

23 hours ago, Awesomness said:

Question: what happens with the singers between Desolations (before the false Desolation and imprisonment of BAM)?

Presumably they are still around and have to carry on without fused assistance.  According to Raboneil attempts at accommodation were made several times although none were ultimately successful.  Although in some respects singer limitations are considerable their staying power as a society and people is equally so.  Many of their skills, culture, and technologies are bound up in the planet's ecosystem itself.

23 hours ago, Awesomness said:

Question: surges are based on Roshar´s surges, were Ashyn ´s the same? Or maybe, the Honorblades and Surges were created after humans came to Roshar... I think this makes more sense.

Surges seem to be the same across the greater rosharan system.  Ten gas giants and so on. 

Spoiler

ZuperzubS

Hi Brandon, just to double check my understanding of things, Odium is still mostly bound on Braize right? Just that he can influence things on Roshar because of proximity?

Brandon Sanderson

I treat Braize, Ashyn, and Roshar as if they were almost one entity for a lot of Identity/Connection related issues. It's more than proximity, though proximity leads to it. We on Earth, I feel, would consider the moon and even Mars to be "ours" so to speak, part of our family of planets. Odium's binding, and that of the heralds/fused encompasses Roshar and Ashyn. There are some subtle distinctions, but for the most part, being bound on Braize is the same as being bound on Roshar.

mraize7

so shadesmar is only from Roshar or from the three planets??

Brandon Sanderson

You can reach all three through shadesmar, with a much shorter trip than to other systems. But the map we provide so far is only Roshar.

Phantine

Have you come up with a name for their star? It'd be easier to refer to all three by calling it the [???]ar/[sol]ar system instead of the Rosharan/[earth]an system like we do now.

Brandon Sanderson

By people in world, it's being referred to as the Rosharan system. This is kind of confusing to us, because we focus on the suns to orient what makes a system. But in the cosmere, they travel directly to planets, and so the biggest trading planet becomes the source of naming conventions in most places. I agree it's a little confusing for us, but I believe it's the way it would naturally arise for them.

Uth-gnar

On the topic of the rosharan solar system, do we get to learn about the significance of the 10 gas giants? We’re they there before the shards ever made their home there? Is that the ‘origin’ of the significance, in the context of the cosmeres natural laws?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO, I'm afraid.

Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 7, 2020)

 

23 hours ago, Awesomness said:

7 - The cycle of Desolations begin.

I think the spren bondings may have come after the first couple desolations.  I certainly don't think Nohadon standardized it until later.

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