Waffles Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 On 12/9/2020 at 0:20 PM, Jasqueen said: So are the oaths different to each person even when they are in the same radiant order? I think this is actually true. As long as its in the spirit of the order and it is growth in the correct intention of direction then the oaths might differ wildly (Such as Szeth's very specific oath to Dalinar). I think possibly that Cultivation, Dalinar or Mishram could approve oaths that the Stormfather may not approve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffles Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 On 3/16/2021 at 4:09 PM, Bejardin1250 said: That seems to violate the entire order as it is completely selfish I know these are a dime a dozen but I’ll repeat mine “I will kill those I love to protect.” This resonates with me- windrunners are selfless. Thematically, something like "I will protect others, even from those I love/respect" makes sense,. growthwise. Something like "I will respect the wishes of those who do not want to be protected" could be another and it would be one that fits thematically with his dual role as a soldier surgeon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Waffles said: This resonates with me- windrunners are selfless. Thematically, something like "I will protect others, even from those I love/respect" makes sense,. growthwise. Something like "I will respect the wishes of those who do not want to be protected" could be another and it would be one that fits thematically with his dual role as a soldier surgeon. No double post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 If Moash has a redemption arc (since he might). Kaladin is going to hopefully reforge the oathpact. Moash still has Jezrian's honor blade. Perhaps what Moash does is sacrifice himself and Kaladin allows it and even deals the killing blow while swearing the fifth ideal. Something like, "I will allow others to die protecting, so long as it is honorable." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 I just backread this chat, and here are the fifth ideals for Kaladin I've seen that I think make the most sense. (I've credited them to the first person I saw saying that one, but there are multiple cases of someone else saying it later.) - "I will save someone I know I can even if that means leaving someone I don't know I can save" -Harrycrapper | This plays into it mirroring Lirin's experience with Roshone and his son, which I think makes sense, with Brandon's foreshadowing and all. - "I will allow myself to be protected" -Rushu42 / "I will protect myself" -Leuthie | These two do differ a little bit, but they're mostly the same. The first one seems to be letting others protect Kaladin so that he doesn't have to everything. He can rely on others. The second one is more about him taking care of himself and being willing to step back when he needs it. - "I recognize/accept when I should not protect" (allowing people to put themselves in danger, respecting their decisions) -Kingsdaughter613 | This is one that I like a lot. It's letting others make their own choices about what to do and what risks to take. It seems to call back to Tien's death (if I remember correctly) and Maya's "WE CHOSE.", even if that doesn't necessarily connect to Kaladin. - "I will not cause harm/kill to protect others" -tipbruley | I don't think this would extend to them being total pasificsts, as like a few people pointed out (or was it just one person?) the Windrunners are primarily soldiers, but there are of course exceptions. I think, instead, it would be Kaladin moving away from fighting being is primary way of protection, as we see with him being a surgeon for the first part of RoW and inventing therapy for Roshar. I'm not as sure about this one, and I think if it is it the wording would be different, but it seems a viable option. I've liked all of the options people have presented and I think there are a lot of good arguments backing them up. This fandom is obviously pretty smart. (P.S. Should I ping the people who presented the specific ideal idea, or leave it as it is?) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morningtide Posted April 15, 2021 Report Share Posted April 15, 2021 I think that the second theory has the most merit. Kaladin's other oaths have all been making progress toward him not beating himself up, and this seems like a natural progression. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves" - Redemption for Tien "I will protect those I hate so long as it is right" - Giving him peace of mind about Elhokar "I accept that there will be those I cannot protect" - Allowing himself to fail "I will allow myself to be protected" - Allowing himself to rely on others and admit that he is not alone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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