Odium's Intent

[bo.montier]

So I've seen a lot of talk about how Tarvangium is much scarier than Rayse as the vessel of Odium and I largely agree...BUT

I don't think it's because the Vessel & Shard's intent are aligned as so many here are positing. The fact that Taravangium had to realign his goals several times from Destroy to Save during his ascension points to this misalignment. 

I think Taravangium is more dangerous/scary for 2 primary reasons

1) He is less damaged spiritually than Rayse was. He hasn't been through clashes with other shards and he hasn't spent millennia warring with his shard's intent.

2) He has no moral boundaries...none. Most people have some sort of moral boundaries in achieving their goal. If their child is hungry (not starving) they might steal, but they probably won't murder. Taravangium would happily do so. 

Just throwing this out there!

[DiePie]

Also, because Mr T is newer to being a shard, it means he has less restrictions from the intent of the shard... which means he can do basically whatever he wants with the power rn, but even in the future he'll have more autonomy (lowercase a autonomy I think) than the other shards.

[bo.montier]

34 minutes ago, DiePie said:

Also, because Mr T is newer to being a shard, it means he has less restrictions from the intent of the shard... which means he can do basically whatever he wants with the power rn, but even in the future he'll have more autonomy (lowercase a autonomy I think) than the other shards.

Right, Like Kelsier & Vin could do things with their power that wasn't strictly within the intent of Preservation, but Sazed is increasingly restricted. I think T will have less restrictions than any other shard, for a time, but eventually he'll be in the same situation as Rayse; his will and intent will be at odds with the shard's intent. Think of Ati, who was (from epigraph readings) not a destructive person when he took up ruin, but became a destructive force later on.

[Raven Wilder]

I mentioned this theory in another thread, but there's Word of Brandon that Rayse specifically chose the Shard Odium because he felt it would fit him well, and he's Splintered other Shards instead of taking their power for himself because he doesn't want their Intents added to him, changing who he is. What makes Taravangian more dangerous is that he won't necessarily have that hangup, and might (whether by absorbing another Shard or Splintering his own Shard) be willing to fundamentally change the nature of Odium.

[BiochromaticStormlight]

1 hour ago, bo.montier said:

Right, Like Kelsier & Vin could do things with their power that wasn't strictly within the intent of Preservation, but Sazed is increasingly restricted. I think T will have less restrictions than any other shard, for a time, but eventually he'll be in the same situation as Rayse; his will and intent will be at odds with the shard's intent. Think of Ati, who was (from epigraph readings) not a destructive person when he took up ruin, but became a destructive force later on.

Imagine ati's life before he was a shard. How depressed and hopeless he must have felt that his personal interpretation of God was ruin, decay, entropy. The mindset you need to shape a piece of God to express the end of all things.

[bo.montier]

1 hour ago, BiochromaticStormlight said:

Imagine ati's life before he was a shard. How depressed and hopeless he must have felt that his personal interpretation of God was ruin, decay, entropy. The mindset you need to shape a piece of God to express the end of all things.

Yeah, Ati is really a tragic figure ruin is a necessary part of life, but separated from the rest of godhood it’s just a depressing thing.

 

[bo.montier]

1 hour ago, Raven Wilder said:

I mentioned this theory in another thread, but there's Word of Brandon that Rayse specifically chose the Shard Odium because he felt it would fit him well, and he's Splintered other Shards instead of taking their power for himself because he doesn't want their Intents added to him, changing who he is. What makes Taravangian more dangerous is that he won't necessarily have that hangup, and might (whether by absorbing another Shard or Splintering his own Shard) be willing to fundamentally change the nature of Odium.

Great points. I think Wit talks about how despicable Rayse was pre ascension as well in an early epigraph. It strikes me that he WAS aligned with Odium, at least more so than T

[HSuperLee]

Okay, I'm sorry for bringing this topic up again. But I do have to wonder if T might be better at sculpting Odium more towards the whole "Passion" thing. I know, I know, that's a tired debate and frankly i don't fully want to get into it. But I think there are two major dangers to Todium. 1. If the Odium shard can be shaped more towards passion, T would be the one to do it as he ascended on his dumbest day, and thus his emotions had the most amount of sway over him. Obviously that's how Cultivation got T in a position to actually take up the Shard, but more than that I think it means he might be more successful in warping Odium towards Passion, as Rayse seemed to struggle with that. 2. T got used to seeing intelligence and emotion more as tools than as permanent fixtures. I can't remember where I heard this and whether it was shardcast or the discord, but it was mentioned that Todium is in a place where he is completely willing to abandon morals and reason to follow what he seems as "the greater good" and that's frankly terrifying. 

 

But digressing, I think T is about as in-line with Odium's intent as is possible, since he basically had minimal reason amd inhibition on the day he ascended to the Shard. In the moment he killed Rayse, he was filled with anger and passion, so no matter which you the Shard's intent more as, T came about as close to possible as a mortal can to embodying that.