Investiture

[BenduLuke]

Can stormlight be used to fill a metal mind or fuel allomancy?

Can burning metal or tapping a metal mind be used to fuel surges?

If either is true can they be used to fuel other forms of investiture in the cosmere such as Chromatic Breaths or be fueled by other forms of Investiture?

I saw it stated somewhere that Chromatic Breaths can fuel surges.

[Dunkum]

We know that stormlight can refresh the sand from Taldain (White Sand) (I think we see this in oathbringer), and that it can keep a returned alive (this is how Vasher survives on Roshar).  you can't use stormlight alone for awakening (pretty sure there is a wob on this, but don't have time to dig it up right now), but I don't think it has been ruled out as being able to substitute for some of the required breath [EDIT: the WOBs I can find suggest it may be possible, but it is not easy]. 

I'd also bet that allomancy/ferruchemy/hemalurgy can't generally fuel surges, since that investiture is already formed when you get it, but the reverse might be possible, based on Vin fueling allomancy via the mists; but that is speculation on my part

Edited December 4, 2020 by Dunkum

[BenduLuke]

36 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

We know that stormlight can refresh the sand from Taldain (White Sand) (I think we see this in oathbringer), and that it can keep a returned alive (this is how Vasher survives on Roshar).  you can't use stormlight alone for awakening (pretty sure there is a wob on this, but don't have time to dig it up right now), but I don't think it has been ruled out as being able to substitute for some of the required breath [EDIT: the WOBs I can find suggest it may be possible, but it is not easy]. 

I'd also bet that allomancy/ferruchemy/hemalurgy can't generally fuel surges, since that investiture is already formed when you get it, but the reverse might be possible, based on Vin fueling allomancy via the mists; but that is speculation on my part

Yes Taldain sand gets charged in RoW as part of the light experiments. The presence of spen over sand also charges it.

You bring up an interesting idea that makes me wonder if metal arts might fuel related surges if not just fuel surges in general?

[Chaos]

Hi, you cannot post RoW spoilers outside its board. Please see: 

I have moved this to the appropriate board.

[Weltall]

3 hours ago, BenduLuke said:

Can stormlight be used to fill a metal mind or fuel allomancy?

Most systems can be made to work together but they'll generally require some form of hacking and some applications are easier than others. For example, Nightblood and the Divine Breath don't actually need to feed on Breaths and any Investiture will do and if you could hack Selish magic appropriately you could substitute something like Breaths or Stormlight and gain Dakhor monk powers without having to sacrifice people.

Brandon has specifically told us that storing Stormlight in metal is hard but F-Nicrosil could theoretically provide a similar method of using Surgebinding that we've already seen it provide for allomancy. You'd either need a Stormlight supply (and it's leaky so it's hard to get) or you'd need a hack that lets you power the Surges with some other form of Investiture as fuel.

Fuelling allomancy with other magics is tricky because each metal is shaping Preservation's power in specific ways so you'd need some way to tell the power what to do.

[BiochromaticStormlight]

I wonder If you introduced breath into a gem filled with stormlight could you give the breath a command to eat the stormlight? And would a more powerful breath come out? Could you make a divine breath this way?

[Raven Wilder]

Say, Elantrians are drawing on the Dor's power constantly, right? So if one of them picked up Nightblood, wouldn't they just be able to let the Dor fuel it indefinitely, without needing to worry about their own soul being consumed?

Or what about if a Feruchemist became a Surgebinder, and stored health in a goldmind while using stormlight to heal themselves? Would they be able to store stormlight healing's incredible effects inside the goldmind (essentially taking the same effect, but transferring it to less leaky container), or would they only be able to store their own, natural healing, just with stormlight healing negating any of the negative effects of doing so? Same thing goes with storing breath (not Breath) in a cadmiumind, when holding stormlight eliminates the need to breathe.

Ooh! Since a lot of worldhoppers are turning up in the Stormlight Archive, someone should really hook Lift up with an unsealed bendalloymind with a ton of nutritional energy stored in it.

[Weltall]

35 minutes ago, BiochromaticStormlight said:

I wonder If you introduced breath into a gem filled with stormlight could you give the breath a command to eat the stormlight? And would a more powerful breath come out? Could you make a divine breath this way?

There isn't really a mechanism we know of by which the Breath could absorb the Investiture in the Stormlight, certainly not on its own at any rate. They're two completely different 'spins' of Investiture, one is Endowment-flavored and the other Honor/Cultivation.

Also, Divine Breaths are Splinters of Endowment, which means there's more to them than just 'a lot of Investiture'. We know that they behave differently with regard to hemalurgy for example.

20 minutes ago, Raven Wilder said:

Say, Elantrians are drawing on the Dor's power constantly, right? So if one of them picked up Nightblood, wouldn't they just be able to let the Dor fuel it indefinitely, without needing to worry about their own soul being consumed?

Asked and answered, the Elantrian would have to open a connection to the Dor to make this work or Nightblood would just consume their own Investiture very quickly, and even that wouldn't help much because Nightblood would eventually dissolve the Aon being used as a conduit and collapse the whole thing. You might make it work by creating a whole chain of Aons for the sword to feed on but the exponential increase would eventually get ahead of your ability to draw new Aons.

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Or what about if a Feruchemist became a Surgebinder, and stored health in a goldmind while using stormlight to heal themselves? Would they be able to store stormlight healing's incredible effects inside the goldmind (essentially taking the same effect, but transferring it to less leaky container), or would they only be able to store their own, natural healing, just with stormlight healing negating any of the negative effects of doing so?

I think you could use the two systems together to store health without the negative effects normally associated with F-Gold storage, since you're not messing up the zero-sum nature of (non-compounded) metalminds that way and you could probably store health faster because you could afford to store right up to whatever the limits of F-Gold are and do it as long as you had Stormlight to spare, but because of the way the two systems work I don't think you could store 'stormlight healing' in a goldmind by itself.

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Ooh! Since a lot of worldhoppers are turning up in the Stormlight Archive, someone should really hook Lift up with an unsealed bendalloymind with a ton of nutritional energy stored in it.

Yeah, people have wondered about this and Brandon has confirmed that it's possible.

[Raven Wilder]

Just had another thought. Rhythm of War shows that the rhythms aren't simply part of how the singers communicate, but can actually have an impact on some forms of Investiture. Given that, I wonder if a hemalurgic construct (like a kandra or Inquisitor) being bombarded with the Rhythm of Awe or something like that might have an effect on them similar to emotional allomancy.

[BenduLuke]

On 12/4/2020 at 4:58 PM, Ookla the Crimson King said:

Most systems can be made to work together but they'll generally require some form of hacking and some applications are easier than others. For example, Nightblood and the Divine Breath don't actually need to feed on Breaths and any Investiture will do and if you could hack Selish magic appropriately you could substitute something like Breaths or Stormlight and gain Dakhor monk powers without having to sacrifice people.

Brandon has specifically told us that storing Stormlight in metal is hard but F-Nicrosil could theoretically provide a similar method of using Surgebinding that we've already seen it provide for allomancy. You'd either need a Stormlight supply (and it's leaky so it's hard to get) or you'd need a hack that lets you power the Surges with some other form of Investiture as fuel.

Fuelling allomancy with other magics is tricky because each metal is shaping Preservation's power in specific ways so you'd need some way to tell the power what to do.

Wouldn't the innate ability of the Fering or Misting provide for the shaping required?

A full Mistborn or Feruchemist might only need their will to transform the stormlight to whatever purpose or metallic power?

[BenduLuke]

On 12/4/2020 at 4:56 PM, Chaos said:

Hi, you cannot post RoW spoilers outside its board. Please see: 

I have moved this to the appropriate board.

Sorry there were not RoW spoilers in this post and thanks for moving it I didn't think my next post had any spoilers in it, but the discussion later definitely started including spoilers.

[Weltall]

26 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Wouldn't the innate ability of the Fering or Misting provide for the shaping required?

A full Mistborn or Feruchemist might only need their will to transform the stormlight to whatever purpose or metallic power?

Doubtful because of how Brandon has described the power working. The metal itself becomes the conduit that not only draws the power from the Spiritual Realm but tells it what to do. Just being a misting/ferring won't provide you with that because your sDNA doesn't shape the power, it simply determines which metal(s) you can use.

[Dunkum]

2 hours ago, Ookla the Crimson King said:

Doubtful because of how Brandon has described the power working. The metal itself becomes the conduit that not only draws the power from the Spiritual Realm but tells it what to do. Just being a misting/ferring won't provide you with that because your sDNA doesn't shape the power, it simply determines which metal(s) you can use.

We do see Vin fuel allomancy using the mists though.  obviously that's a bit of a special case since its still preservation's investiture fueling it, but it seems closer to using stormlihght than to using metals

[Weltall]

That's more Preservation fueling Vin directly, something that we know Shards can do. He wasn't yet dead at that point, even if his mind was badly gone. We see it again when Vin fuels Elend after her own Ascension and then in Alloy of Law when Wax gets a little boost from Harmony. There's a mind directing that application of Investiture, even if it was running mostly on auto-pilot in the first instance we saw.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Ookla the Crimson King

[Dancer]

Brandon has said that you can use stormlight to fuel allomancy just like the mists. How you would do that though is up in the air. 

 

youshallnotpass

Can stormlight be used to fuel allomancy like the mist in the mistborn trilogy? Is stormlight therefore a manifestation of honour?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible.

[Dunkum]

9 hours ago, Ookla the Crimson King said:

That's more Preservation fueling Vin directly, something that we know Shards can do. He wasn't yet dead at that point, even if his mind was badly gone. We see it again when Vin fuels Elend after her own Ascension and then in Alloy of Law when Wax gets a little boost from Harmony. There's a mind directing that application of Investiture, even if it was running mostly on auto-pilot in the first instance we saw.

But it isn't like preservation was deciding which abilities to grant - Vin is still deciding that as though she was burning metals.  Still, it probably wouldn't work directly without some tinkering.  I'd imagine that an allomancer holding stormlight would probably feel it as an inaccessible reservoir of power, similar to how Vin perceived Sazed's metalmind

 

edit: taking that train of thought a couple steps further after I hit post - it might suggest that someone with both surgebinding and allomancy may be able to use it directly, like how someone with compatible allomancy an ferruchemy can burn their own metalmind.  that's an extra level of speculation deeper though

Edited December 8, 2020 by Dunkum