Children of Tanavast

[ScadrianTank]

Brandon seems to be foreshadowing a connection between Gavilar, Kaladin, and Honor.

In the prologue, Navani reacts to seeing Gavilar dead by comparing his corpse to a discarding shell.

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In a trance, Navani walked back to the larder and the cold husk of Gavilar Kholin. His discarded shell.

Then in chapter 110, Lirin describes Kaladin healing his slave brands the same way. 

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“I figured,” Lirin said, “that if an entire tower was going to show faith in my son, I could maybe try to do the same. I’m sorry, son. For my part.” He reached up and brushed aside Kaladin’s hair to see the brand there.
But as he did, he found scabs flaking away, the brands falling off to the stones below like a shell outgrown, discarded. Clean, smooth skin was left behind.

Also, in Oathbringer, Adolin says the following to Kaladin.

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I’m pretty sure you could survive anything. Storms, bridgeboy, the Almighty used some of the same stuff he put into Shardblades when he made you.

Too tenuous a connection or is there something else there?

[+honorblades]

I’m not sure I see your connection between the discarded shells and Kaladin. I believe this to be more of flavor text - crustaceans are very normal to Rosharans, their metaphors would reflect that. I wouldn’t look too deep into it. 

However, a connection between Kaladin and Honor... I believe Kaladin is the only one that the Stormfather refers to as a “Child of Tanavast” instead of a “Child of Honor”. Now that could be significant. 

[cozz95]

Also in RoW kaladin is referred to as "THE Son of Tanavast" for the first time and the Sibling says he is particularly close to the Surge of Adhesion (which is purely of Honor) and that his power is that of bonds. There must be something there but what exactly I have no idea. 

[+Mzuka]

There's a WOB that says that naming (Child/Son of Tanavast) for Kaladin is significant...I also can't see how though.

[Wind_Breaker]

Yeah, I am really looking forward to seeing that. It struck me how the Stormfather called Kaladin "the son of Tanavast", like it was normal, while he fell in the storm. Like, GUYS I WANT TO KNOW.

-It could be a straightforward biological tie. Tanavast produced children at some point and Kaladin is his descendant of a million generations or something. Very unlikely because that would mean that there are quite many children of Tanavast.

-Kaladin's personality and mindset is similar to Tanavast's. Possible but I think there's more to it.

-Kaladin might become a religious figure at some point. Like Tanavast. Maybe he'll become a spren-like being or some other powerful representation of Tanavast. It would make sense if the Stormfather could sense that something like this is coming - but he can't because seeing the future is not of Honour.

-It could have something to do with Syl, Ancient Daughter, and her bond to Kaladin.

-There are some theories about Hesina's ancestry right? That she is from a lighteyes family? Maybe there is something there.

That's all my brainstorming got me. All that doesn't completely convince me either.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Wind_Breaker

[Lightdancer]

50 minutes ago, Wind_Breaker said:

There are some theories about Hesina's ancestry right? That she is from a lighteyes family? Maybe there is something there.

I... never connected those two Kaladin ancestry theories before. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Frustration]

Way ahead of you I've gathered every peice of information about Kaladin in this reguard

 

[Ramona Tehradin]

On 12/3/2020 at 8:00 PM, ScadrianTank said:

Too tenuous a connection or is there something else there?

I mean, I'm not leaning towards discarded shells and all but I believe Tanavast and Cultivation did have children and a direct implication I can provide is from this line spoken in Ch 66 of Rhythm of War: 

Spoiler

“No,” Dalinar said. “No, oaths are part of what define morality, Taravangian. A good man must strive to accomplish the things he’s committed to do.”

“Spoken like a true son of Tanavast,” Taravangian said, clasping his hands. “And I believe you, Dalinar. I believe you think exactly what you say. You are a man of Honor, raised to it through a life of his religion—­which you might be upending, but it retains its grip on your mind.

You can see  'son' is written in small caps, so I assume it was intentional to implicate Shardic children exist. 

[Wind_Breaker]

9 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Way ahead of you I've gathered every peice of information about Kaladin in this reguard

 

Haha thank you, fellow Seeker of Secrets!

Reading that recap was pretty interesting. Hmmm. So I guess "there is something about Kaladin's ancestry, possibly through Hesina [her father had a strong will and was protective of her being taken by a guy, which could also be just a minor detail, right]" is my favourite right now.

Also, !! since "Kalak" is the Storm and din is a suffix, "Kaladin Stormblessed" must be a pretty epic alliteration / parallelism in Alethi. Kaladin Kala____. (do we know how the Alethi express "blessed"?). 

[Wind_Breaker]

6 hours ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

I mean, I'm not leaning towards discarded shells and all but I believe Tanavast and Cultivation did have children and a direct implication I can provide is from this line spoken in Ch 66 of Rhythm of War: 

  Hide contents

“No,” Dalinar said. “No, oaths are part of what define morality, Taravangian. A good man must strive to accomplish the things he’s committed to do.”

“Spoken like a true son of Tanavast,” Taravangian said, clasping his hands. “And I believe you, Dalinar. I believe you think exactly what you say. You are a man of Honor, raised to it through a life of his religion—­which you might be upending, but it retains its grip on your mind.

You can see  'son' is written in small caps, so I assume it was intentional to implicate Shardic children exist. 

Wow. Still, those sons of Tanavast can still be biological or figurative.

I also wonder about Moash's insistence that Kaladin can't be killed just like the Storm can't be killed. Again: is that bc Moash is instable and a twisted Kaladin reverer (figurative), ooor does he know something we do not know yet (he is literally the storm somehow)?

Edited December 13, 2020 by Wind_Breaker

[Master Silver]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but where was Honor shattered? Could it be possible that part of his power attached to Kaladin? In terms of being a descendant of Tanavast like a grandson, Tanavast breaking an oath either for the sake of a human, or to a human could have left him open to an attack by Odium. The Stormfather gets the mind of Tanavast, presumably Dalinar ends up with the power of Honor, Kaladin, ends up with the soul/blessing of the Shard/Vessel. Crazy things happen when the realms combine, or a god dies. 

[Wind_Breaker]

Honour was probably shattered in the middle of the Shattered Plains right? Narak?

Cool idea. I think it's possible. Just - Kaladin is not from Narak.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Wind_Breaker

[Master Silver]

Depending on how high above Narak the fight was taking place, something moving very fast could make it to hearthstone maybe. haha Good point though. 

[Leuthie]

On 12/12/2020 at 8:33 AM, Windshaper said:

There's a WOB that says that naming (Child/Son of Tanavast) for Kaladin is significant...I also can't see how though.

Syl is the last living honorspren that was "birthed" by Tanavast. All other Tanavast honorspren were bonded during the Recreance and are now deadeyes. All current honorspren (besides Syl) were "birthed" by Stormfather or other honorspren who were "birthed" by Stormfather.

I think that is the significance.

8 hours ago, Wind_Breaker said:

Wow. Still, those sons of Tanavast can still be biological or figurative.

I also wonder about Moash's insistence that Kaladin can't be killed just like the Storm can't be killed. Again: is that bc Moash is instable and a twisted Kaladin reverer (figurative), ooor does he know something we do not know yet (he is literally the storm somehow)?

I think that's a fourth wall thing. Moash is echoing the reader's thoughts here. Moash is literally talking about plot armor.

However, since the Storm will be killed in Book 5 (speculation), there could also be foreshadowing for Kaladin being killed, as well.

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Leuthie
Combine two posts

[Dreamwa1ker]

Not sure how to best cross-link posts on here, but my theory is that Kaladin is Honor's avatar, perhaps Syl chose him as a task she was given by Honor before he splintered (though she might not really remember that, like other parts of her past) - see here:

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/93917-why-kaladin-was-awake/?do=findComment&comment=1142980

Edited December 13, 2020 by Dreamwa1ker

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, Leuthie said:

Syl is the last living honorspren that was "birthed" by Tanavast. All other Tanavast honorspren were bonded during the Recreance and are now deadeyes. All current honorspren (besides Syl) were "birthed" by Stormfather or other honorspren who were "birthed" by Stormfather.

Syl was one of the First made by the stormfather, not Tanavast.

[Starla]

10 hours ago, Master Silver said:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but where was Honor shattered? Could it be possible that part of his power attached to Kaladin? In terms of being a descendant of Tanavast like a grandson, Tanavast breaking an oath either for the sake of a human, or to a human could have left him open to an attack by Odium. The Stormfather gets the mind of Tanavast, presumably Dalinar ends up with the power of Honor, Kaladin, ends up with the soul/blessing of the Shard/Vessel. Crazy things happen when the realms combine, or a god dies. 

This reminds me of a crackpot idea I had during the Hearthstone chapters in part 1, but what if that region is associated with Honor somehow? Navani mentions hearing a "pure tone" when Dalinar opens the perpendicularity there, and in Oathbringer Syl mentions hearing a "pure tone like cracked crystal" when they arrive in Hearthstone. Could this be Honor's tone? Also, the Windrunner River runs through that area, and Nazh has marked Hearthstone on the Alethkar map in Oathbringer. If I recall correctly from Dalinar's visions, Alethkar was generally associated with Windrunners, So perhaps there is some connection between Honor and the Hearthstone area, similar to how Cultivation is associated with the Valley.

[Hoid the Former Drifter]

On 12/12/2020 at 10:33 AM, Windshaper said:

There's a WOB that says that naming (Child/Son of Tanavast) for Kaladin is significant...I also can't see how though.

I'll say it for brandon because he's not here: RAFO

[Wind_Breaker]

23 hours ago, Starla said:

This reminds me of a crackpot idea I had during the Hearthstone chapters in part 1, but what if that region is associated with Honor somehow? Navani mentions hearing a "pure tone" when Dalinar opens the perpendicularity there, and in Oathbringer Syl mentions hearing a "pure tone like cracked crystal" when they arrive in Hearthstone. Could this be Honor's tone? Also, the Windrunner River runs through that area, and Nazh has marked Hearthstone on the Alethkar map in Oathbringer. If I recall correctly from Dalinar's visions, Alethkar was generally associated with Windrunners, So perhaps there is some connection between Honor and the Hearthstone area, similar to how Cultivation is associated with the Valley.

That doesn't even seem crackpot but pretty possible to me. Cool

[Knight Oblivion]

On 12/13/2020 at 11:09 AM, Leuthie said:

Syl is the last living honorspren that was "birthed" by Tanavast. All other Tanavast honorspren were bonded during the Recreance and are now deadeyes. All current honorspren (besides Syl) were "birthed" by Stormfather or other honorspren who were "birthed" by Stormfather.

 

Syl is the last living honorspren "birthed" before Tanavast died. She is of the first generation created by Stormfather when he was bestowed that duty by Honor. The potential specialness of Syl comes from this very specific and unrepeated circumstance. Generations before being made by Honor himself, generations after being made by Stormfather after Honor's death.

 

My personal thought is that Syl and her generation might have been made more closely connected to Honor and his power due to being among Stormfather's first attempts. Spren still seem to need to learn things so it seems possible that Stormfather made them "too well".

Edited December 15, 2020 by Knight Oblivion

[Leuthie]

I was mistaken

On 12/13/2020 at 3:40 PM, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Syl was one of the First made by the stormfather, not Tanavast.

That's embarrassing. 

But it does point me away from "Son of Tanavast" having anything to do with Syl. Kaladin has some other powers besides just Syl watching out for him. "Nebulous spren watching out for him" was mentioned in the WOB Thrill question. And doing the things that Kelsier is doing being dangerous suggests there's a Connection to...something that Kaladin has besides his Nahel bond. Syl's questioning the darkness in him suggests Odium filling cracks, but that's a more recent trend and doesn't mesh with being a "Son of Tanavast". He could be a descendant of the Vessels, but then there would be many others and it seems whatever Kaladin is is singular.

I wonder if there's some hints in the time he spent in Highstorms in Way of Kings. Was he bonded to more than just Syl and are there lines that would hint as such?

[Wyndle88]

On 12/12/2020 at 1:33 PM, Windshaper said:

There's a WOB that says that naming (Child/Son of Tanavast) for Kaladin is significant...I also can't see how though.

Could it be that Kaladin is the Son of Tanavast because his spren is "the Ancient Daughter"?

[Banazir864]

As far as Gavilar goes, I'd consider the "discarded shell" analogy to be more of a reflection of Navani's belief that the real Gavilar (i.e. his soul) had passed on to the afterlife rather than any sort of hidden message.

[Texastrojan1685]

So I was reading through the WoB today. And I did some googling and some thinking. Between the statement regarding the Child of Tanavast vs Child of Honor, and the one about the end of Stormlight being written in the first two books. I wonder if Kaladin becomes Honor. I could

Spoiler

be wrong as I’ve only listened to mistborn but wasn’t preservation presumed to be destroyed, but wasn’t it destroyed was just dispersed? 

Maybe Tanavast knew his end was coming and he foresaw Kaladin  and knew would come and be his replacement. The story Kaladin and wit create about fleet, he died but by will he rose and flew on the winds and won the race. I know these aren’t direct quotes as I’m going off memory. But this is my new theory. Kaladin will become Honor.

[Texastrojan1685]

54 minutes ago, Texastrojan1685 said:

So I was reading through the WoB today. And I did some googling and some thinking. Between the statement regarding the Child of Tanavast vs Child of Honor, and the one about the end of Stormlight being written in the first two books. I wonder if Kaladin becomes Honor. I could

  Reveal hidden contents

be wrong as I’ve only listened to mistborn but wasn’t preservation presumed to be destroyed, but wasn’t it destroyed was just dispersed? 

Maybe Tanavast knew his end was coming and he foresaw Kaladin  and knew would come and be his replacement. The story Kaladin and wit create about fleet, he died but by will he rose and flew on the winds and won the race. I know these aren’t direct quotes as I’m going off memory. But this is my new theory. Kaladin will become Honor.

Also what if Tanavast is the reason Syl slept for so many years. Maybe his replacement revolves around her, whether he knew it was specifically Kaladin or not. Maybe he prepared Syl for his replacement. He didn’t make Syl, the stormfather did, but he was still alive when he had the stormfather begin creating honor spren. Maybe he prepared her just  as he prepared the visions for the stormfather to give to someone of his choosing at the appropriate time.