Scadrian vs. Rosharan magic post RoW

[Nameless* Steel Inquisitor]

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

yeah except that only those in denial still believe that.

High Spren have another reason for aligning with the Fused. Also not all Spren of the same type agree which side to choose.

We haven't really seen any spren other than the Honorspren's reaction to that discovery. The Skybreakers are currently being led by an insane herald, and we don't know much about the Highspren.

2 minutes ago, Joesmine said:

those are very good counterarguments @Nameless

Thank you. Welcome to the Shard, by the way. 

[BenduLuke Forescout]

6 minutes ago, Nameless said:

That is after the Rosharan humans, in their estimation, committed genocide. 

 

2 minutes ago, Joesmine said:

those are very good counterarguments @Nameless

My point was that it is far more likely to have a Metalborn Radiant from Scadrial than from Roshar.

Scadrians are also likely to be able to use Stormlight to fuel their metalborn abilities right off the bat where Rosharans wont be able to use metal for investiture.

[Nameless* Steel Inquisitor]

Just now, BenduLuke said:

My point was that it is far more likely to have a Metalborn Radiant from Scadrial than from Roshar.

Unless medallions granting metalborn abilities become commonplace, in which case a Radiant can just sneak in from Shadesmar and nab a few.

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

Scadrians are also likely to be able to use Stormlight to fuel their metalborn abilities right off the bat where Rosharans wont be able to use metal for investiture.

Why would they be able to do that? Would a Radiant be able to breath in the mists?

[Kitch Lighteyes]

My gut feeling it's going to less of a Radiant vs Mistborn, but more of a personal investiture (Radiants) vs industrial investiture(metallic arts)

In a 1 on 1 fight it might end up being the Radiant that comes out on top. But with being able to develop investiture and have people be able to use powers by strapping on a coin, it's going to be a matter of numbers. There can be only so many Radiants, but anybody can use metallic arts. 

[BenduLuke Forescout]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

We haven't really seen any spren other than the Honorspren's reaction to that discovery. The Skybreakers are currently being led by an insane herald, and we don't know much about the Highspren.

Thank you. Welcome to the Shard, by the way. 

Cryptics, and cultivation spen as a group already seem predisposed to aid the radiants even while assuming that Humans murdered spren. Ash spen seem generally disposed the other way.

We know why skybreakers aligned in general with the Fused, but the High Spren don't seem to have an opinion.

[Nameless* Steel Inquisitor]

3 minutes ago, Kitch said:

My gut feeling it's going to less of a Radiant vs Mistborn, but more of a personal investiture (Radiants) vs industrial investiture(metallic arts)

In a 1 on 1 fight it might end up being the Radiant that comes out on top. But with being able to develop investiture and have people be able to use powers by strapping on a coin, it's going to be a matter of numbers. There can be only so many Radiants, but anybody can use metallic arts. 

Unless the Radiants set up suppressers to disable the metallic arts. Or make a giant speaker playing anti-preservation tones. Then it's a bunch of normal people versus a bunch of superpsoldiers in power armor.

2 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Cryptics, and cultivation spen as a group already seem predisposed to aid the radiants even while assuming that Humans murdered spren. Ash spen seem generally disposed the other way.

We know why skybreakers aligned in general with the Fused, but the High Spren don't seem to have an opinion.

Well, Ashspren are still helping humans. They haven't bonded Parshmen.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Nameless

[BenduLuke Forescout]

4 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Unless medallions granting metalborn abilities become commonplace, in which case a Radiant can just sneak in from Shadesmar and nab a few.

Why would they be able to do that? Would a Radiant be able to breath in the mists?

Yes it seems as if Mists and Stormlight act similarly as a generic investiture usable by anyone with invested abilities. Open medallions could be a solution so long as the Rosharan was able to hold onto it. Once bonded surges couldn't be taken from a Scadrian.

[Nameless* Steel Inquisitor]

Just now, BenduLuke said:

Yes it seems as if Mists and Stormlight act similarly as a generic investiture usable by anyone with invested abilities. Open medallions could be a solution so long as the Rosharan was able to hold onto it. Once bonded surges couldn't be taken from a Scadrian.

Considering that the Fused can't use stormlight, and Radiants can't use voidlight, (with the exception of Venli, as she has a gemheart and connection to Odium via the voidspren), I don't think it works like that.

[Frustration Sliver]

6 minutes ago, Kitch said:

There can be only so many Radiants, but anybody can use metallic arts. 

On the contrary a new Radiant can be made hours after another ones death, a new Metalborn takes at least 15 years to be of use.

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

Yes it seems as if Mists and Stormlight act similarly as a generic investiture usable by anyone with invested abilities. Open medallions could be a solution so long as the Rosharan was able to hold onto it. Once bonded surges couldn't be taken from a Scadrian.

Bonding would require entering enemy held territory while being 

A. Obvious

B. Vulnerable

They would be immediately killed off.

And a Bondsmith can remove the bond.

[BenduLuke Forescout]

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Unless the Radiants set up suppressers to disable the metallic arts. Or make a giant speaker playing anti-preservation tones. Then it's a bunch of normal people versus a bunch of superpsoldiers in power armor.

Well, Ashspren are still helping humans. They haven't bonded Parshmen.

I think it was mentioned that Dustbringers in general were also helping the fused. The were bonded to Humans.

Bronze allomancers would be more likely find nullifying tones to use against their enemies.

[Frustration Sliver]

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

I think it was mentioned that Dustbringers in general were also helping the fused. The were bonded to Humans.

They are unreliability teamed with Dalinar

2 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Bronze allomancers would be more likely find nullifying tones to use against their enemies.

1. They don't know how to do it.

2. Singers would actually have the easiest time doing it.

[Nameless* Steel Inquisitor]

3 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

I think it was mentioned that Dustbringers in general were also helping the fused. The were bonded to Humans.

They weren't helping the fused so much as not directly following Dalinar's orders.

3 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Bronze allomancers would be more likely find nullifying tones to use against their enemies.

Yes, it would be easier for them to find anti-rhythms, but lightweavers could deploy them far more effectively.

[BenduLuke Forescout]

12 minutes ago, Kitch said:

There can be only so many Radiants, but anybody can use metallic arts. 

I have to partially agree with @Frustration on this. Using metal arts requires snapping, a medallion, or spike. Becoming radiant only needs a bond.

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

On the contrary a new Radiant can be made hours after another ones death, a new Metalborn takes at least 15 years to be of use.

Bonding would require entering enemy held territory while being 

A. Obvious

B. Vulnerable

They would be immediately killed off.

And a Bondsmith can remove the bond.

Good point on the bondsmith, but there are metal arts that could do the same.

The ghostbloods are trying to transport Stormlight because it is generic investiture and can fuel any magic system. Metal born would use it like the metal they burn or store and tap.

Your A and B Assumes they start fighting as soon as they arrive on Roshar. so no they wouldn't need to enter enemy territory. Rosharans on Scadrial would soon be helpless not so the other way around.

[BenduLuke Forescout]

21 minutes ago, Frustration said:

They are unreliability teamed with Dalinar

1. They don't know how to do it.

2. Singers would actually have the easiest time doing it.

That's why Navani discovered the anti-tones first? Copper mistings are used to discerning pulses.

19 minutes ago, Nameless said:

They weren't helping the fused so much as not directly following Dalinar's orders.

Yes, it would be easier for them to find anti-rhythms, but lightweavers could deploy them far more effectively.

So Bronze misting Lightweavers could be very dangerous to any invested being. 

I can accept that Dustbringers are not reliable allies to Dalinar instead of out right against them.

Edited January 16, 2021 by BenduLuke
Corrected Metal

[Frustration Sliver]

3 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

That's why Navani discovered the anti-tones first? Copper mistings are used to discerning pulses.

Bronze but yes.

Navani was not the first to do it. Whether it was Gavilar or someone else is unknown.

And while Bronze is good, Singer always here the Rhythms and can instinctively replicate them. No resources required.

[BenduLuke Forescout]

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Bronze but yes.

Navani was not the first to do it. Whether it was Gavilar or someone else is unknown.

And while Bronze is good, Singer always here the Rhythms and can instinctively replicate them. No resources required.

Not sure Metal arts produce tones, but Bronze mistings can sense Rosharan tones as pulses.

[Frustration Sliver]

9 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Not sure Metal arts produce tones, but Bronze mistings can sense Rosharan tones as pulses.

What do the Seekers hear?

[BenduLuke Forescout]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

What do the Seekers hear?

 

The Seeker feels pulses, like beats of a drum, emanating from the person burning a metal. The metals are grouped into fast and slow, pushing and pulling, and have their own signature feel.Nov 22, 2020

 

Seeker - The Coppermind Wiki

[Nameless* Steel Inquisitor]

5 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

The Seeker feels pulses, like beats of a drum, emanating from the person burning a metal. The metals are grouped into fast and slow, pushing and pulling, and have their own signature feel.Nov 22, 2020

 

Even if the metallic arts don't have a specific tone, Preservation and Ruin do.

[Frustration Sliver]

10 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

 

The Seeker feels pulses, like beats of a drum, emanating from the person burning a metal. The metals are grouped into fast and slow, pushing and pulling, and have their own signature feel.Nov 22, 2020

 

Seeker - The Coppermind Wiki

So, they feel a almost musical beat, or Rhythm?

[BenduLuke Forescout]

4 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Even if the metallic arts don't have a specific tone, Preservation and Ruin do.

the pulses of Atium, Lerasium, and Harmonium would be how they are represented. It is on Roshar that shards have tones which a Bronze misting can sense as pulses.

[BenduLuke Forescout]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

So, they feel a almost musical beat, or Rhythm?

Right though perhaps a little more complex as Vin learned.

[Nameless* Steel Inquisitor]

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

the pulses of Atium, Lerasium, and Harmonium would be how they are represented. It is on Roshar that shards have tones which a Bronze misting can sense as pulses.

Yep. And reversing and playing them would push out all their related investiture.

[BenduLuke Forescout]

13 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Yep. And reversing and playing them would push out all their related investiture.

What do you mean by reversing?  Anti-light is not the reverse of the related light.

It's more like morse code than music. Though that is not a full description. there have been no examples of investiture being pushed out by anything. Even the fabriels and corrupted Sybling didn't push out investiture.

[Frustration Sliver]

3 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

What do you mean by reversing?  Anti-light is not the reverse of the related light.

It's more like morse code than music. Though that is not a full description. there have been no examples of investiture being pushed out by anything. Even the fabriels and corrupted Sybling didn't push out investiture.

The Anti-Void tone pushed on the Voidlight in Rabonial's gemheart.