Frustration Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said: What's the maximum amount of strength and weight can TLR use? The way Feruchemy uses Muscle there isn't suffiecient room on his body to grow enough to move that. His bones would give out under the weight of the muscle alone, forget the giant stone monster on top of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Just now, Frustration said: The way Feruchemy uses Muscle there isn't suffiecient room on his body to grow enough to move that. His bones would give out under the weight of the muscle alone, forget the giant stone monster on top of that. Okay, then he taps all his weight and crushes it, either by standing on its head or tapping it or with steel/iron. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted December 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Just now, Frustration said: His bones would give out under the weight of the muscle alone, forget the giant stone monster on top of that. Uh, you mean like how a feruchemist's bones should give out from the incredible speeds they move at? Or how Wax should implode every time he tries to use F-iron to increase his weight? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Just now, Nameless said: Uh, you mean like how a feruchemist's bones should give out from the incredible speeds they move at? Or how Wax should implode every time he tries to use F-iron to increase his weight? Strength is different, it actually stores muscle mass, and even lets say for the sake of the argument that he could somehow bare the weight of all that, he would litterally be unable to move because his arms and legs would be so large they wouldn't be able to rotate enough to throw anything, or even pick it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted December 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Frustration said: Strength is different, it actually stores muscle mass, and even lets say for the sake of the argument that he could somehow bare the weight of all that, he would litterally be unable to move because his arms and legs would be so large they wouldn't be able to rotate enough to throw anything, or even pick it up. We haven't seen that F-pewter has that limit, and Brandon has never talked about it, from what I can tell. Maybe it would be as simple to fix as using the right intent while storing. Maybe your muscle mass would simply stop increasing, while your strength did. Anyways, TLR could just store the extra strength from A-Pewter, and then compound that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Just now, Nameless said: We haven't seen that F-pewter has that limit, and Brandon has never talked about it, from what I can tell. Maybe it would be as simple to fix as using the right intent while storing. Maybe your muscle mass would simply stop increasing, while your strength did. It's been a while but didn't Sazed mention that he had trouble moving at high muscle mass? I could be wrong though 1 minute ago, Nameless said: Anyways, TLR could just store the extra strength from A-Pewter, and then compound that. That is possible but it is more complicated and would be much harder and more time consuming to preform. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted December 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: It's been a while but didn't Sazed mention that he had trouble moving at high muscle mass? I could be wrong though I think it stretched his skin and slowed him down, so maybe it would be limited. 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: That is possible but it is more complicated and would be much harder and more time consuming to preform. Not really. He can just burn pewter, store a tiny bit of strength, then start compounding. Edited December 19, 2020 by Nameless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nameless said: Not really. He can just burn pewter, store a tiny bit of strength, then start compounding. Oh, I missed what you said, Allomantic Pewter can be stored in a pewtermind, and I thought that was what you were saying, that he would store that and then get a huge burst later. Well, with that, he still has the muscle problem as it will automatically attune the Feruchemidic power, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted December 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Just now, Frustration said: Well, with that, he still has the muscle problem as it will automatically attune the Feruchemidic power, Why would it do that? Compounding nicrosil doesn't convert allomantic powers to blank investiture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 30 minutes ago, Nameless said: Why would it do that? Compounding nicrosil doesn't convert allomantic powers to blank investiture. Gold compounding converts the allomantic input into health. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted December 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Just now, Frustration said: Gold compounding converts the allomantic input into health. Yes. After you stored healing in it, changing the "key" to health. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, Nameless said: Yes. After you stored healing in it, changing the "key" to health. So, you're just saying use A-pewter? Or store A-pewter in F-pewter, and pull it out in large quantities later? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, ShalladinForever said: Can't Dalinar essentially stop the flow of time and work within that void? He stops Kaladin in midair and then proceeds to forge a Connection and show him a vision. This requires a Highstorm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDomanreiter Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 On 12/2/2020 at 5:11 PM, seriodor said: Is the fight a Fullborn with unlimited metal VS a Radiant with unlimited Stormlight? I think in that situation a Fullborn wins every time. If they both had just an equal amount of fuel available, but the Fullborn still had an equal amount of each metal, I'd still say the Fullborn. If you take into account the rarity of each of their sources of power, then I'd say the Radiant wins, because a lot of the Alloymancy stuff would require a supply line to smelters and access to stuff that's hard to get ahold of. Radiants just need to have spheres. We haven't seen the capabilities of a Fifth Ideal Radiant though, so maybe they'd do better. I strongly disagree. How does a Fullborn get through Shardplate? Shards aren't metal, they're spren, so I doubt a mistborn could push/pull them. I think the outcome could depend on how much investiture they have, true, considering that a mistborn with unlimited atium wouldn't really be in danger. And it matters about the mistborn's coin count, because otherwise they would be quickly grounded. And it would definitely matter the order the Radiant is. I think a fullborn would beat an Edgedancer, but lose to a Windrunner. A Windrunner could make quick work of the metal sources the mistborn could use to "fly", and then lash them to the ground enough times to render them immobilized. Then atium wouldn't be an issue. I think perhaps emotional Allomancy could be one of the only ways the mistborn could win. The battlefield would also play a large role in it. For example, fighting in a cave would be difficult for a Windrunner, but in that case maybe a Stoneward would be at the advantage. Yeah, but I think that atium is the biggest thing in the mistborn's favor, if not the only one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Frustration said: Um, they're like 72 stories tall And by my calculation would weigh about 151,200 pounds. Wax accidentally Pushed boulders and easily blew out a stone wall by trace minerals. TLR would be fine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 minute ago, TheDomanreiter said: I strongly disagree. How does a Fullborn get through Shardplate? Shards aren't metal, they're spren, so I doubt a mistborn could push/pull them. I think the outcome could depend on how much investiture they have, true, considering that a mistborn with unlimited atium wouldn't really be in danger. And it matters about the mistborn's coin count, because otherwise they would be quickly grounded. And it would definitely matter the order the Radiant is. I think a fullborn would beat an Edgedancer, but lose to a Windrunner. A Windrunner could make quick work of the metal sources the mistborn could use to "fly", and then lash them to the ground enough times to render them immobilized. Then atium wouldn't be an issue. I think perhaps emotional Allomancy could be one of the only ways the mistborn could win. The battlefield would also play a large role in it. For example, fighting in a cave would be difficult for a Windrunner, but in that case maybe a Stoneward would be at the advantage. Yeah, but I think that atium is the biggest thing in the mistborn's favor, if not the only one. Shardplate is metal, and Emotional allomancy is all but worthless against Radiants. Thanks for posting though. 2 minutes ago, StanLemon said: Wax accidentally Pushed boulders and easily blew out a stone wall by trace minerals. TLR would be fine Yes, but physically moving it would be the problem, that's what I was saying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 Just now, Frustration said: Shardplate is metal, and Emotional allomancy is all but worthless against Radiants. Thanks for posting though. There is no reason that strong enough Emotional Allomancy won't work on a Radiant. It's not all that different than Pushing/Pulling on Plate or Blade Just now, Frustration said: Yes, but physically moving it would be the problem, that's what I was saying. Blow off the head 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 Also, by all indications Bondsmiths need to touch someone to manipulate Connection with them. Making it's use in a fight against someone who can move faster than the Bondsmith and see both their own and the Bondsmith's future On a more conjecture end of things. F-Duralumin allows some level of Connection manipulation, maybe even enough to stonewall a Bondsmith. Unfortunately we don't know enough about it but considering it can store "blank" Connection I'm sure there is a lot more to it than we yet know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 I'm sorry guys, I just don't see TLR lifting a Thunderclast and tossing it several miles. No matter how much pewter they can bring to bear there is an upper limit. If a Radiant could do so there'd be no need for Shardblades. As far as pushing on trace metals in the rock, how much of that is on Roshar? It was my understanding that Roshar is quite metal poor, meaning a Thunderclasts 'body consists of hardened clay more than metal laced stone. Furthermore, I'm not sure what good blowing its head off would do. My guess is you either have to banish the spren that animate the rock monster or cut it into manageable pieces. So for TLR to beat a Thunderclast he would likely have to find a place on it where he couldn't be shaken off and leech for all he's worth. Barring that, the right tool for the job is a Shardblade. Or Nightblood. The most worrisome attribute TLR possesses is speed, that's going to be the hardest thing to counter for a Herald. I think Ishar could counter Atium and I think Battar and Kalak could smoke him from the CR. Much like a Mistborn vs a Radiant, the best way for the Scadrian to win is to end the fight before the Rosharan knows that there will be a fight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 @Bigmikey357 I don't understand where you think Roshar is metal poor? Sure Roshar doesn't mine for metals much but that's because they have Soulcasters that make it easy. Also Crem is described as tasting metallic so I'm fairly confident trace metals are all over the place on Roshar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 @StanLemon Crem tastes metallic. So do mineral deposits in water. The taste could be either metal or rock AFAIK. But even if the planet isn't particularly metal poor it certainly doesn't show up in the types of concentration as Scadrial. That info BTW comes from WoB, although I'm not in position to search for it right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Wilder Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 I don't know if Roshar is necessarily metal poor, so much as the continent getting layered with crem over the course of millennia means all the veins of metal are deeply buried and not easily accessible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said: I'm sorry guys, I just don't see TLR lifting a Thunderclast and tossing it several miles. No matter how much pewter they can bring to bear there is an upper limit. If a Radiant could do so there'd be no need for Shardblades. As far as pushing on trace metals in the rock, how much of that is on Roshar? It was my understanding that Roshar is quite metal poor, meaning a Thunderclasts 'body consists of hardened clay more than metal laced stone. Furthermore, I'm not sure what good blowing its head off would do. My guess is you either have to banish the spren that animate the rock monster or cut it into manageable pieces. So for TLR to beat a Thunderclast he would likely have to find a place on it where he couldn't be shaken off and leech for all he's worth. Barring that, the right tool for the job is a Shardblade. Or Nightblood. The most worrisome attribute TLR possesses is speed, that's going to be the hardest thing to counter for a Herald. I think Ishar could counter Atium and I think Battar and Kalak could smoke him from the CR. Much like a Mistborn vs a Radiant, the best way for the Scadrian to win is to end the fight before the Rosharan knows that there will be a fight. The Lord Ruler can still try and crush the thunderclast with his weight, and I think it's fine to assume he brought of source of metal to manipulate like cins if he wants to push or pull. We have no idea if Ishar can counter Atium (If you have a WoB, please share) and that still doesn't change that he can kill Ishar in a split second. As for soulcasting, I have a made a thread where it's clear that TLR bands would be filled to the brim and very hard to soulcast in any fastidious matter. As for TLR himself, BS has said it's hard to soulcast people because they are more invested, and TLR is a sliver, so he is VERY invested to the point of resisting the pull of the beyond for a very long time, so I don't know how much of an option that would be for them. 7 hours ago, TheDomanreiter said: I strongly disagree. How does a Fullborn get through Shardplate? Shards aren't metal, they're spren, so I doubt a mistborn could push/pull them. I think the outcome could depend on how much investiture they have, true, considering that a mistborn with unlimited atium wouldn't really be in danger. And it matters about the mistborn's coin count, because otherwise they would be quickly grounded. And it would definitely matter the order the Radiant is. I think a fullborn would beat an Edgedancer, but lose to a Windrunner. A Windrunner could make quick work of the metal sources the mistborn could use to "fly", and then lash them to the ground enough times to render them immobilized. Then atium wouldn't be an issue. I think perhaps emotional Allomancy could be one of the only ways the mistborn could win. The battlefield would also play a large role in it. For example, fighting in a cave would be difficult for a Windrunner, but in that case maybe a Stoneward would be at the advantage. Yeah, but I think that atium is the biggest thing in the mistborn's favor, if not the only one. @seriodor Okay, fullborn and mistborn aren't the same thing, please clarify which you're talking about, because Fullborn would be a storming Lord Ruler, which as have discussed would wreck radiant and possibly even a herald. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 @Aspiring Writer No WoB on it, just the observation of Ishar's fight against the Windrunners. Connection, like Atium sight, originate in the Spiritual Realm. Ishar probably cannot manipulate connections without physical contact, but he should be able to see them. That's why I said Speed is TLR's biggest advantage. In the absence of Atium, Emotional Allomancy is his next greatest, and the more dependable one. The reaction time of every Herald is supernatural, they may be fast enough to defend themselves from the speed of TLR at least for a little while even if they could not counter. I again must emphasize that I still believe TLR takes the prize, the only difference is that I used to think he could body all 10 Heralds, if not all together, then at least in groups of 4 or 5. Now I believe TLR has a much thinner margin for error. Something that we should take into account for this battle is that every last combatant is insane. No win is certain because on the Scadrial side Ruin could be prompting TLR to make a mistake or underestimate the opponent. It's how he lost to Vin after all. On the other side we don't know what particular magical malady any particular Herald is suffering from, it's kind of a crapshoot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriodor Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 10 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said: The Lord Ruler can still try and crush the thunderclast with his weight, and I think it's fine to assume he brought of source of metal to manipulate like cins if he wants to push or pull. We have no idea if Ishar can counter Atium (If you have a WoB, please share) and that still doesn't change that he can kill Ishar in a split second. As for soulcasting, I have a made a thread where it's clear that TLR bands would be filled to the brim and very hard to soulcast in any fastidious matter. As for TLR himself, BS has said it's hard to soulcast people because they are more invested, and TLR is a sliver, so he is VERY invested to the point of resisting the pull of the beyond for a very long time, so I don't know how much of an option that would be for them. @seriodor Okay, fullborn and mistborn aren't the same thing, please clarify which you're talking about, because Fullborn would be a storming Lord Ruler, which as have discussed would wreck radiant and possibly even a herald. I meant a Fullborn. I know the topic was Mistborn V. Radiant, but I think that's pretty pointless because a Radiant will definitely win in most situations. I think a Fullborn would of course win with sufficient preparation, but it's not a guaranteed thing. I think the outcome would depend on a ton of variables, the main one being availability of investiture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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