Truthwatcher at the Rim

Everything AWESOME about ROW

57 posts in this topic

One part I got really giddy about was when Navani bonded the Sibling and said the ideal in right front of Moash while cursing him. I feel like I often forget that Kaladin wasn't the only one who lost someone they loved to Moash and it felt so satisfying to see Navani face him in all her Radient glory. 

Also the part where Kaladin is playing with his brother made my heart want to explode, it was so cute.

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12 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

Lots of stuff to choose from, but I want to focus on something that seems like it should have been a bigger deal in world.

A: Hey, did you hear? This guy took on like fourteen armed guys to save someone, and lived!

B: Let me guess, a Radiant?

A: No! No stormlight, no supernatural edge of any kind!

B: Shards, then?

A: No! No Blade, no Plate, just a steel sword and not even regular armor!

B: Then he must have had help, right?

A: Just a deadeye and his horse.

B: Okay. Wow, fourteen, you say. That IS impressive... wait, is this Adolin Kholin we're talking about?

A: Yeah, why?

B: Yawn. I thought you had something interesting to talk about. Wake me when something unusual happens.

I can't believe I forgot about that scene!!!

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58 minutes ago, TheGirlWhoLookedUp said:

One part I got really giddy about was when Navani bonded the Sibling and said the ideal in right front of Moash while cursing him. I feel like I often forget that Kaladin wasn't the only one who lost someone they loved to Moash and it felt so satisfying to see Navani face him in all her Radient glory. 

Also the part where Kaladin is playing with his brother made my heart want to explode, it was so cute.

He should bring Oroden to his therapy group one day.  

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1 minute ago, Truthwatcher at the Rim said:

He should bring Oroden to his therapy group one day.

yessss! That would be amazing

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Everything listed so far, especially concerning the Fused we've seen in depth so far. I was concerned prior to this book that they would lack dimension or individual motivation and just be typical baddie minions and extensions of Odium, but we are seeing now that they don't always align with him, and can care about so much more than just killing all the humans. 

Everything Dabbid was amazing. 

My favorite line of the book is still "That dog is a storming hero!" Prior to that story, Kal didn't know what a dog was. 

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First of all, I think my favorite part of the whole book is the Dog and the Dragon. I am legitimately considering making a petition for Sanderson to publish that as a children's book. If anyone has ideas on how to do that, I would appreciate it. 

Second, I've been concerned about Roshar's lack of therapists for a while. I never expected Kaladin to be the one to make that step. I would also like to say that I predicted what the Fourth Oath was for the Windrunners. In the name of accuracy, my exact words were "I will let go of those I cannot save." which is pretty darn close. 

I, for one, really enjoyed the Investiture and fabrial experiments Navani conducted. Those sorts of things have fascinating lore implications on how to manipulate Investiture and also the properties of Aluminum. 

Another thing I appreciated is how much time was spent on the society of the singers. It's all to easy to turn a war into us versus them, the angry monsters who want to destroy, but we saw that that is not the case. There are factions, detractors, and the battle lines are not clearly drawn across species. This is something that Sanderson excels at, but still rare to see done well.

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I just want to appreciate Brandon's worldbuilding. He introduced the rhythm of executions in the chapter where Venli met Rlain without it feeling overemphasized or out of place, and yet he still prepared us for Lewshi being able to hear that rhythm and instantly know that it means that they know she betrayed them. 

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I liked when it referred to the Lord of Scars or something like that. I'm pretty sure that's Kelsier, which leaves a huge cliffhanger, so AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Overall, the book is amazing. Loved the trial and the part where Navani bonded with the sibling and kicked Moash's butt. I also loved the part when Kaliden saved his father.

Also, how did Kaliden's shardplate fly from person to person?

Also, TEFT:(

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Just now, The Windrunner Supreme said:

Also, how did Kaliden's shardplate fly from person to person?

It's made of windspren, so they simply flew to the people, then formed Shardplate around them.

 

loved the Dog and the Dragon. It's a new contender for the title of my favorite sequence in a book.

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Kelsier is a Hoid wannabe

The Dog and the Dragon was just *Italian chef kiss cause I'm out of words*

 

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8 hours ago, Stormgate said:

First of all, I think my favorite part of the whole book is the Dog and the Dragon. I am legitimately considering making a petition for Sanderson to publish that as a children's book. If anyone has ideas on how to do that, I would appreciate it. 

Second, I've been concerned about Roshar's lack of therapists for a while. I never expected Kaladin to be the one to make that step. I would also like to say that I predicted what the Fourth Oath was for the Windrunners. In the name of accuracy, my exact words were "I will let go of those I cannot save." which is pretty darn close. 

I, for one, really enjoyed the Investiture and fabrial experiments Navani conducted. Those sorts of things have fascinating lore implications on how to manipulate Investiture and also the properties of Aluminum. 

Another thing I appreciated is how much time was spent on the society of the singers. It's all to easy to turn a war into us versus them, the angry monsters who want to destroy, but we saw that that is not the case. There are factions, detractors, and the battle lines are not clearly drawn across species. This is something that Sanderson excels at, but still rare to see done well.

I would love a Dog and the Dragon picture book. What a wonderful message I’d love to share with my own kids. I will join your petition. 
 

I don’t think there is any more I can add that hasn’t already been said here. I loved this book. I felt all the feelings. This is one of the first books in a long time that I have actually taken time to sit and read instead of listen to the audiobook. The audiobook wasn’t fast enough to keep me going through the story. My husband is still working on reading it and talking with him about it makes me excited about parts all over again.

I definitely teared up over Kaladin becoming a therapist and saving Noril and others. I loved his whole arc. I loved how he had to really rely on Rlain and Dabbid. I loved it leading to his Tien vision. I know the vision obviously may not be what happened in reality, but I absolutely accept as headcannon that Tien absolutely volunteered to be with the other boys to try and help them not be alone and scared. Tien is absolutely as good and wonderful as Kaladin. 

Navani and Raboniel were SO good. Science! I love it. I could very easily have a soul stamp where I am a scientist so this arc was absolutely fabulous to me. I love how deep Raboniel was as a character. I love how we really got to see the Fused/Singer society as nuanced/complex/diverse as human society is. So many of the Fused just being tired of fighting is such a great direction. 

Shallan/Adolin/Maya were all so good. Their arcs complimented each other so well and those resolutions were so powerful. I’m very curious where these go next. 
 

I love that this book has me so hooked for the next one. I’m so terrified and I hate it, but love that a book can be so well written as to make me feel not just joy, but genuine sorrow, fear, and anger. 

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On 12/1/2020 at 11:44 PM, Truthwatcher at the Rim said:

Todium is quite frankly the most terrifying thing Branderson has created (perhaps excluding The Scene in Warbreaker, though that was terrifying for different reasons).  Why?  Well, Rayse was, despite being a Shard and all that, not very smart.  Either that or he was done trying.  But Taravangian is extremely crafty, and with that much power, well, the Cosmere had better pull their act together or they're all doomed.

What scene in Warbreaker?

And Yes, I loved that scene, for one it shows how unbelieveably brilliant Cultivation is, and at the same time, made me terrified.

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8 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

What scene in Warbreaker?

And Yes, I loved that scene, for one it shows how unbelieveably brilliant Cultivation is, and at the same time, made me terrified.

Warbreaker spoilers

Spoiler

The bit where Vivenna walks into the hideout after escaping Vasher and there's all the dead tortured animals on the wall and Tonk Fah is just...  *shivers*  It was really messed up.

 

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There were so many amazing things. I think I had two favourites

Kaladin and Tien was...everything. To see Kaladin make such a significant difference to the lives of so many but to only value keeping them alive- I loved that Tien got to live again to give Kaladin a better perspective. And the way that built on the Dog and the Dragon story was perfection.

Navani's arc. The way she could sit there and say she wasn't a scholar when she was so clearly one of the most brilliant people to ever walk Roshar. Her relationship with Raboniel which even as they fought and lied, taught her the truth. The way she came to see her own value and THAT was what made her worthy to say the oath. I loved it. it's something I really relate to: particularly as a Mother, where I think you get used to thinking your only value sits in the relationships you invest in and not in your capabilities. So that was so satisfying.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Song said:

There were so many amazing things. I think I had two favourites

Kaladin and Tien was...everything. To see Kaladin make such a significant difference to the lives of so many but to only value keeping them alive- I loved that Tien got to live again to give Kaladin a better perspective. And the way that built on the Dog and the Dragon story was perfection.

Navani's arc. The way she could sit there and say she wasn't a scholar when she was so clearly one of the most brilliant people to ever walk Roshar. Her relationship with Raboniel which even as they fought and lied, taught her the truth. The way she came to see her own value and THAT was what made her worthy to say the oath. I loved it. it's something I really relate to: particularly as a Mother, where I think you get used to thinking your only value sits in the relationships you invest in and not in your capabilities. So that was so satisfying.

 

 

 

 

Ah! I hadn’t totally seen that connection to the Dog and the Dragon before. Now I love it even more. I think that is the next step for Kaladin moving forward. Recognizing that life is not simply not dying, but truly living. It also ties back to one of his flashbacks with Tarah. When she says he needs to really be there for the living, not just the dead. Life before Death. 

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I agree with many of the favorite parts listed. 
One that hasn’t been mentioned yet was Eshonai’s ride with the Stormfather. I thought that was a very fitting and satisfying way for Eshonai the Explorer to end her story. It touched me, and left a pretty nicely tied up bow on her character arc. 
 

Adolin has not historically been a favorite character of mine. I haven’t hated him but I have not loved him either. I’ve been surrounded by many Adolin fans and just thought it was fun for them to like him. After RoW I am now joining the Adolin fan club. That man is good. I’ve started comparing him to my husband and pointing out the qualities they have in common. I think Adolin is taking over the role from Lightsong of what character reminds me most of my husband. I really appreciated how Adolin “handled” Shallan and Maya and was true to himself but didn’t give up. The star Spren scene was beautiful. I hope Adolin has someone to take care of him. 

My favorite Shallan scene was . . .
 

 Shallan fell to her knees, arms wrapped around herself, trembling. “Oh storms … Oh, God of Oaths…” She felt a hand on her shoulder. “It’s all right, Shallan,” Veil whispered. “It’s all right.” “I know what you are,” Shallan whispered. “You’re the blankness upon my memories. The part of me that looks away. The part of my mind that protects me from my past.” “Of course I am,” Veil said. “I’m your veil, Shallan.”

That scene was so beautifully written after reading that I am now ok with her personalities. 
 

I felt that the Testament arc was properly foreshadowed and was satisfying but not surprising. 
 

Taravangion (Todium — what a fun name) was Super Surprising and just wow! I still don’t know what to make of all this. I wonder if Nightblood will be different now that he has been touched by a shard. It’s interesting to me that Nightblood wasn’t able to consume all that power. There were limits to what he could eat. 
 

@Truthwatcher at the Rim if you didn’t like that Warbreaker scene (which I didn’t either) then what did you think of Ishar’s tent scene? I did not like that scene - but it was unforgettable  I was guessing that he was trying to manifest Spren bodies as a way for him to eventually get off world — but that’s just my first assumption. 

The other unforgettable cringe scene for me is the thought of Wit kissing Jasnah’s safe hand fingers. *ick* I just can’t get over that he is so old . . . 

Raboniel was a wonderful character. The assisted suicide scene with her daughter was memorable. It make me think about lots of things.   
 

@Stormgate  Brandon mentioned at a signing last year (Starsight) that there were plans to make all the Wit stories into children’s books. The Girl Who Looked Up, Fleet, Wandersail, and now I presume the Dog and the Dragon. My fav is the Dog & the Dragon — by far. I am such a dog! 

One thing I appreciated about RoW is I felt that cosmere references were less obscured than in other books.  That made them easier to pick up on. For example when Wit was doing magic tricks with a coin Design pointed out that coins were not native to Roshar and spheres were normally used. This kinda dumbed it down a bit but I also felt like I caught more things on my first read through.  That being said I completely missed the leader of the Ghost Bloods is the “Lord of Scars” hint. I feel so stupid. It was written so obviously.  I remember thinking that I should know who that was but it didn’t click when I first read it. I’m blaming that on reading in the wee hours of the morning. And I hadn’t read Mistborn in years. Next time I read a Sanderson book I’m not reading the ending after midnight.

Edited by JoyBlu
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I echo almost everything everyone else said, but I wanted to add a few that I didn't see.

Casually dropping 4(!) Shard's names in the epigrahs of part 2.  I was so torn between reading the chapters and skipping ahead to the next epigraph.  

The scene with Adolin and Shallan the night before the final day of the trial.  It was so tender and beautiful, and then turns on a dime with Formless coming out. It didn't make sense at first, but when I reread it, Formless comes out when Adolin mentions her deadeye (no one knowing at that point that she had one).  I reread that chapter, and it was even more amazing knowing what would come next.

The prologue.  Navani's fight with Gavilar was heart-wrenching.  Gavilar has gone from the tragically murdered king to an abusive jerk of a husband that we almost cheered to his death.  Knowing Brandon, book 5 prologue will be Gavilar's perspective and it will be an even more complicated situation.  

General Cosmere connections.  Already mentioned 4 new shards.  I called the Seon as soon as Mraize gave Shallan the box.  White sand used in the Teft/Vyre fight.  Casual reference to Aethers in the Ars Arcanum.  Vasher's rambling about realmatics to a mostly confused Kaladin.  What the heck is that chain that has now made two cameo mentions.  Something from Thernody I assume.  I am sure I am missing some here there was so much. 

Awesome book, so worth the wait.  Would read again (actually am listening to audiobook right now).  16/10

Edited by the_archduke
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2 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

Next time I read a Sanderson book I’m not reading the ending after midnight.

I wish you luck. your only hope is to finish before then.

 

The Cosmere's mask is being pulled away, Staight out confirmation is next.

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@JoyBlu ngl, I literally forgot about that scene XD.  If not for that, I'd agree that it's unforgettable.  It honestly didn't creep me out as much as it should have, since I was distracted by the fact that I figured out they were spren before the book outright said it.  But yeah, that was also extremely messed up.  

Also, you are not the only one to miss the "Lord of Scars" thing.  I was talking to my friend about it: "And we still don't know who Thaidakar is!"  And she just looked at me and went, "Uh, yes we do."   I facepalmed so hard when she explained it.

3 hours ago, the_archduke said:

Vasher's rambling about realmatics to a mostly confused Kaladin. 

Kaladin's confusion in situations like this gives me life.  

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Kaladin Stormblessed.

Reborn.

 

Also did not see Navani’s bonding of The Sibling at all was expecting her to bond Dabbid or Rlain so “Journey before Destination, Bastard!” was pretty awesome. Her finally understanding that letting Gavilar’s final words to her shape her life is wrong and that realization is what makes her worthy of Radiance....just wow.  

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One thing I love about this books is how the characters make mistakes and act based on biases or misconceptions. But they are always willing to do better.

Kaladin with Rlain. Navani with the fabrials, the sibling and Raboniel, the whole Venli arc. (to mention only some examples from ROW).

I agree with most of the moments mentioned before, and I want to add une more:

Teft and his relationship with Phendorana. Adorable and heartbreaking.

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I love so much about this book. In no particular order:

  • All the Cosmere lore. Most of what we saw was just more obvious examples of things we already knew (other planets exist, Seons, Awakening, etc.) but there was enough new stuff (like the new Shards) to make me very excited. We're really moving into the next Cosmere Era, aren't we?
  • The Fused having distinct (and sometimes awesome) personalities. It makes me so happy that even the insane warriors of pure passion are real people, not cardboard cutouts. 
  • Raboniel. She gets her own bullet point because of how much I loved her character. In many ways, she's a terrible person, but somehow you can still care about her at the end. She's exactly what the book needed.
  • All of the science. This is a book about war (I mean, see the name) but the most important parts of the book were scientific discoveries, diplomatic missions, and personal revelations. I love that there are Radiants who don't fight, and I loved learning more about how Stormlight works. Of course, this leads directly into the next bullet point.
  • All of Navani's scenes. I love her so much. Almost everything she did felt like something I might have done in her place, and her experiments were fascinating. In the previous books, I hadn't paid much attention to her, since her biggest role in the story was just Dalinar's love interest. I'm so glad that Sanderson didn't just leave her like that, because her character now is wonderful.
  • Kaladin's work with depression. Roshar really did desperately need a reformation of mental health treatment, and it's wonderful to see him using his influence for that.
  • The starspren. This one is really just because I'm an amateur astronomer, but the starspren were one of my favorite little pieces of worldbuilding in the book, so a CR appearance of one was a fantastic surprise.
  • Eshonai's death. I wish she'd been able to live, but we already knew that she had died. That ending was heartbreaking in all the right ways.
  • Kaladin listening to Rlain, and apologizing for what they did with the Parshendi corpses. It had always bothered me that he had never said sorry for that, even after Rlain's reveal, but I had assumed that it wouldn't come up again. Another great surprise.

Also, to the OP, thank you for this thread! I was getting bogged down by some of the arguments that came when I tried to talk about characters I love (specifically Navani). I'm glad to have a place to enjoy things without having to defend why.

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On 12/1/2020 at 8:56 PM, Truthwatcher at the Rim said:

I'M SO PROUD OF KALADIN.

Yes!

@Ramona Tehradin Preach it!

I agree with everything on here, but I'd like to elaborate on Teft (just to make you all sad).

He wakes up thinking he's been on moss. He struggles with self-hatred but decides not to let it cripple him. But then...

Quote

Then he'd found out the truth. He hadn't broken. He hadn't taken up the moss. It wasn't his fault. For once in his storming excuse for a life, he had been kicked to the gutter and woken up with a headache- and it hadn't been due to his own weakness.

Brandon Sanderson, Rhythm of War, p. 999

That moment...

As they keep making plans, we see Teft settling into a healthy mindset. Helping the others. Having a calm, happy relationship with Phenodorana. Forgiving himself.

And then Teft confronts Moash. And then Moash storming kills Phenadorana... and then kills Teft...

Quote

Confident, and somehow still full of hope, Teft died.

Brandon Sanderson, Rhythm of War, p. 1117

That whole scene was horrific, but knowing that Teft died with hope gives me peace. That's how character deaths should be.

I knew Teft was going to die as soon as he began to think about how his life was finally alright. I can't believe Phenadorana died- STORM MOASH. And I'll miss Teft as part of Bridge 4.

Still, as sorrowful as it was, a sadly beautiful part of this book.

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6 hours ago, Ookla the Uscritic said:

Also, to the OP, thank you for this thread! I was getting bogged down by some of the arguments that came when I tried to talk about characters I love (specifically Navani). I'm glad to have a place to enjoy things without having to defend why.

So glad I'm not the only one...

1 hour ago, Lightdancer said:

That whole scene was horrific, but knowing that Teft died with hope gives me peace. That's how character deaths should be.

Honestly, same.  This is part of the reason I didn't cry for that scene (though the other reason was that I was kinda in shock :P).  But his character arc was pretty much complete, and he was finally at peace with himself.  So somehow, despite how horrible it was, I was satisfied.

Edited by Truthwatcher at the Rim
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Not an actual moment in the book per se. Just realizing that despite all the superhuman strengths and powers of the Radiants on Roshar, it was Taravangian who successfully defeated Odium. Underrated. You don't need to have superpowers to overcome obstacles, rather you need to maximize what you DO have at your disposal to aid you.

Edited by Hearty_Joe
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