Jump to content

So who will be Odiums champion


SzethIsBadAsHell

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

In 10 days?

well I think book 5 will cover these 10 days only. And in Brandon’s book, a lot can happen in ten days! I don’t know may be the whole book would be a one big sanderlanche ! 
Actual achievement of an ideal doesn’t take a long time. 

How many days were covered in book 4? 2 highstorms came so..... max one month?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

This is clearly hemalurgic incorporation. 

 

Idk . It could just be a art thing . El is a refined killer , like Hannibal Lecter. He likes aesthetics.  I think he includes metal to express himself and  make himself look more aesthetic or perhaps to copy human armor without actually wearing it. 

It could be hemalurgy but I really doubt he could have kept it secret for so long from odium . Odium could probably sense the investiture esp since he's connected to El directly for millenia .

And if Odium knew about it he would have already used it in the most widespread manner. Esp on moash perhaps. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gavilar.

His soul was captured by Odium before it made it to the spiritual realm and held captive on Braize. T-vessel staples his Cognitive Shadow back to a body and has him fight his brother. Dalinar is completely thrown off by the fact that Gavilar is Odium's champion and Gavilar wins.

Didn't Brandon say somewhere that we would get a Gavilar POV for the night he was assassinated in the beginning of book 5? If so, this would make sense.

Sorry, I'm overflowing with wild theories after finishing RoW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Roocifer said:

Gavilar.

His soul was captured by Odium before it made it to the spiritual realm and held captive on Braize. T-vessel staples his Cognitive Shadow back to a body and has him fight his brother. Dalinar is completely thrown off by the fact that Gavilar is Odium's champion and Gavilar wins.

Didn't Brandon say somewhere that we would get a Gavilar POV for the night he was assassinated in the beginning of book 5? If so, this would make sense.

Sorry, I'm overflowing with wild theories after finishing RoW

Wowza nice theory . I always thought who would Odium pick ? My answer is someone Dalinar could not kill . The obvious answer was Adolin . People love him , and Dalinar would let the world burn before he would kill him . I never thought of Gavilar who also fits the bill for this . I didn’t know we were getting a Gavilar POV in part 5 . It will probably be his flashback viewpoint of his death . 
          I like this more than Adolin idea honestly ! Could you imagine Dalinar face ? And Navani ??? Oh this is too good of an idea . I would pay money for that  fight . Real talk ! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whoever the champion of Odium is, Dalinar is gonna die in book 5. The setup is too neat: a second bondsmith ready to fill the gap, and the amount of detail and emphasis to Dalinar and Odium’s treaty, should Dalinar lose, is not an accident. 

There’s a WOB somewhere talking about certain unnamed characters not surviving the first five books... my money is 100% on Dalinar. 
 

The question then becomes “who can kill him?” Szeth handled non-radiant Dalinar very easily in WOR. Neither Szeth nor Dalinar can compete against any herald—— if we talk heralds, my money is on Nale, as he’s literally fighting for Odium. Plus we had a foreshadowing moment with those two.

El is too random and new... there’s zero attachment to him for the readers.

Thaidakar aka K-Money is a possibility, we just don’t know yet.

Wit is also a possibility, pending what happened in that epilogue.

Overall, Kaladin “should” be chosen... it’s beyond obvious that he’s the biggest bad *** in the series. Dalinar simply made a bad deal and bad champion choice, books 6-10 are gonna be a level 5, 35-40 year old Kaladin redoing the job the right way and becoming the new version of Adonalsium. And he’s gonna have to face-down and kill evil odium-owned Dalinar in the process. My 2 cents

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bit out there, but Szeth goes to Shinovar and this death rattle happens when he destroys it "A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears." Todium selects a child (maybe Gavinor, or Oroden, or a Shin child that Szeth brings back) knowing Dalinar could not kill the child. Szeth returns and Renarin convinces his father to select Szeth as the champion which throws off the future-sight of Todium as well as his knowledge of Dalinar he depended on bring about "I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.". Dalinar demands Szeth surrender rather than harm the child, but Szeth instead swears the 5th Ideal leaving behind his Oath to Dalinar and draws Nightblood killing the child "So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life..."

Szeth is the only reasonable champion so broken that he might be willing to take the option of killing a child to save the world, and whose oaths would allow it. I could also see him letting Nightblood destroy him afterwards.

Edited by Darth_Hel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/1/2020 at 4:58 AM, Friendshipspren said:

And if Odium knew about it he would have already used it in the most widespread manner. Esp on moash perhaps. 

It's hard to steal magic on Roshar via hemalurgy, as you'd have to spike the human and the spren at the same time (per WOB), so perhaps those are spikes from elsewhere that have different "blessings" to bestow.

We also have WOB that Odium wouldn't care about hemalurgy:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Investiture might care depending on if it's part of a Shard-- if it has intent and things like this.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So it might let Stormlight in easier than a Breath, type thing.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care.

Dark Talent release party (Sept. 6, 2016)

and

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Would it involve Connection between the person being spiked and the bird?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well it would be even harder than on Roshar, where you need to somehow spike the spren and also the Radiant. You would need to spike the bird and steal the power, but also spike the person and steal Connection.

GenCon 2017 (Aug. 17, 2017)

So my going theory is that those are spikes from off-world, and might be a reason why the rhythms are forbidden him. My supposition is that Rayse doesn't want the interference, but the shard of Odium doesn't care, and neither will Todium. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bliev said:

It's hard to steal magic on Roshar via hemalurgy, as you'd have to spike the human and the spren at the same time (per WOB), so perhaps those are spikes from elsewhere that have different "blessings" to bestow.

We also have WOB that Odium wouldn't care about hemalurgy:

and

So my going theory is that those are spikes from off-world, and might be a reason why the rhythms are forbidden him. My supposition is that Rayse doesn't want the interference, but the shard of Odium doesn't care, and neither will Todium. 

I was thinking more around the lines of him stealing human/fused/singer intelligence , strenght, emotional fortitude , senses, etc. Normal properties , not magical ones. 

Besides how would he figure out bind points and not risk turning into a Koloss or worse. Sure he could just be reborn but not without odium or other fused noticing. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 04/12/2020 at 7:35 PM, Darth_Hel said:

Bit out there, but Szeth goes to Shinovar and this death rattle happens when he destroys it "A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears." Todium selects a child (maybe Gavinor, or Oroden, or a Shin child that Szeth brings back) knowing Dalinar could not kill the child. Szeth returns and Renarin convinces his father to select Szeth as the champion which throws off the future-sight of Todium as well as his knowledge of Dalinar he depended on bring about "I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.". Dalinar demands Szeth surrender rather than harm the child, but Szeth instead swears the 5th Ideal leaving behind his Oath to Dalinar and draws Nightblood killing the child "So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life..."

Szeth is the only reasonable champion so broken that he might be willing to take the option of killing a child to save the world, and whose oaths would allow it. I could also see him letting Nightblood destroy him afterwards.

I think this is a brilliant theory. It also fits with the back and forth of T and Dalinar's ongoing discussion about how willing you are to do evil for the good of the many. Is Dalinar willing to order the death of a child to save the world. Even his own Grandson? 

He can't...but Szeth could.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea, I added more to it in another thread. Dalinar could also still stop Szeth killing the child if he used his powers of connection to make himself Odium's Champion again. Then Szeth ends the first Arch of Stormlight Archives similar to how it started with him killing a Kholin King.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/4/2020 at 9:35 AM, Darth_Hel said:

Bit out there, but Szeth goes to Shinovar and this death rattle happens when he destroys it "A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears." Todium selects a child (maybe Gavinor, or Oroden, or a Shin child that Szeth brings back) knowing Dalinar could not kill the child. Szeth returns and Renarin convinces his father to select Szeth as the champion which throws off the future-sight of Todium as well as his knowledge of Dalinar he depended on bring about "I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.". Dalinar demands Szeth surrender rather than harm the child, but Szeth instead swears the 5th Ideal leaving behind his Oath to Dalinar and draws Nightblood killing the child "So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life..."

Szeth is the only reasonable champion so broken that he might be willing to take the option of killing a child to save the world, and whose oaths would allow it. I could also see him letting Nightblood destroy him afterwards.

Very creative theory, but the book clearly says it's supposed to be "A willing champion from each of us and a fight to the death." What child (especially Gavinor) would be willing to fight and kill for Odium?

Adolin also, obviously, wouldn't be a willing champion for Odium either.

 

On 12/4/2020 at 4:09 AM, joesleepsalot said:

Whoever the champion of Odium is, Dalinar is gonna die in book 5. The setup is too neat: a second bondsmith ready to fill the gap, and the amount of detail and emphasis to Dalinar and Odium’s treaty, should Dalinar lose, is not an accident.

I believe Dalinar will lose, too. The clause about him joining the Fused if he loses sounds just like what Brandon would do. He likes to put characters in the worst possible situations and then let them scramble out or even turn it into their own favor.

Whether Dalinar will be his own champion or somebody else, that's a question. He'll need a Shardbearer, but he can't (probably) use someone else's Shards while bonded to Stormfather (or any spren, I think?).

If Dalinar loses it means his champion needs to die, which means it's not likely to be Kaladin bc he's too important for the story. Also, Dalinar already told Kaladin he won't ask it from him. I thought the previous books gave a lot of hints it would be Kaladin vs. Moash, but Moash is also now incapacitated. Somebody might be able to heal him within 10 days, though.

Adolin is a duelist by his Calling (hint, hint), but if he's not a high level Radiant, sending him into such a duel is the same as executing him. He might be able to revive Maya, though.

Seth is conveniently gone, most other characters are not strong enough, and I believe BS (what unfortunate initials) wouldn't make some side character a champion, bc the readers' emotional investment wouldn't be nearly so strong then. So it must be one of the main characters.

In the end I think Dalinar will likely fight in his own name, bc if he loses he has to give up his soul anyway and he feels it's the most honorable thing to not risk anyone else. He loses, becomes immortal, in back 5 books he must serve Odium but in the same time finds a way to sabotage him, becomes Honor in the end. Maybe this sounds too predictable, though.

Edited by GameOfGroans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/29/2020 at 11:07 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Since Odium got an upgrade in RoW I’m expecting some big things . I absolutely have no idea who it will be . But there are some interesting options 

 

1. El : this Fused is so feared his name is not to be spoken . Even the Pursuer watched his mouth around him . I suspect he is of a type we have not seen yet . One that uses Division !

2. Moash even though he is blinded . I expect Odium can grant him an ability to compensate for loss of eyesight . Like sonar kind of like Daredevil . 
 

3. Nale seeing how he is a Herald and handle Szeth like an unruly stepchild this is almost the worst option for Dalinar . He would be outmatched in fighting skill for sure 

 

4. Adolin : I predicted Adolin to be Odium long ago . Born under the sign of the nine . Pissed at Dalinar for killing his mom . But mostly because he is the one person Dalinar would not want to kill which sounds like Todium all day . I like Adolin a lot so I hope this is not the case . But I would be wrong not to consider him 

5. Someone we haven’t seen yet . My least favorite guess . As this is totally not like Brandon. To not foreshadow this .

 

 

Lastly I don’t like Dalinar being his own champion . I keep thinking about the old lawyer adage . The guy who represents himself has a fool for a client . Dalinar doesn’t have shards and baring him gaining an Honor blade he won’t have shards . Sooo he would be better off letting. Kaladin do it . Or maybe using his bond smith powers to connect himself to Taln and try and borrow his abilities perhaps . I really would like Taln restored to be Dalinar champion but hey Dalinar seems dead set on kicking ass himself .

 

what do you guys think ? Who will be Odiums champion ?

Adolin is too much of a good guy at this point. He literally said in RoW that the incident with his mother hasn't made him feel hatred or anything negative towards his father. Unless the world turn on itself and a parallel universe emerges where, I don't see Adolin becoming Odium's champion.

 

On 12/4/2020 at 0:09 PM, joesleepsalot said:

Whoever the champion of Odium is, Dalinar is gonna die in book 5. The setup is too neat: a second bondsmith ready to fill the gap, and the amount of detail and emphasis to Dalinar and Odium’s treaty, should Dalinar lose, is not an accident. 

There’s a WOB somewhere talking about certain unnamed characters not surviving the first five books... my money is 100% on Dalinar. 
 

The question then becomes “who can kill him?” Szeth handled non-radiant Dalinar very easily in WOR. Neither Szeth nor Dalinar can compete against any herald—— if we talk heralds, my money is on Nale, as he’s literally fighting for Odium. Plus we had a foreshadowing moment with those two.

El is too random and new... there’s zero attachment to him for the readers.

Thaidakar aka K-Money is a possibility, we just don’t know yet.

Wit is also a possibility, pending what happened in that epilogue.

Overall, Kaladin “should” be chosen... it’s beyond obvious that he’s the biggest bad *** in the series. Dalinar simply made a bad deal and bad champion choice, books 6-10 are gonna be a level 5, 35-40 year old Kaladin redoing the job the right way and becoming the new version of Adonalsium. And he’s gonna have to face-down and kill evil odium-owned Dalinar in the process. My 2 cents

It's clearly stated in the book that Thaidakar or

Spoiler

Kelsier

 can't travel from wherever he is, so no, he can't be a champion for anyone on Roshar. This feels like a big plot point in future cosmere books so I'm pretty sure the travelling thing won't be resolved in the next book in 10 days. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/3/2020 at 10:09 PM, joesleepsalot said:

Whoever the champion of Odium is, Dalinar is gonna die in book 5. The setup is too neat: a second bondsmith ready to fill the gap, and the amount of detail and emphasis to Dalinar and Odium’s treaty, should Dalinar lose, is not an accident. 

There’s a WOB somewhere talking about certain unnamed characters not surviving the first five books... my money is 100% on Dalinar. 
 

The question then becomes “who can kill him?” Szeth handled non-radiant Dalinar very easily in WOR. Neither Szeth nor Dalinar can compete against any herald—— if we talk heralds, my money is on Nale, as he’s literally fighting for Odium. Plus we had a foreshadowing moment with those two.

El is too random and new... there’s zero attachment to him for the readers.

Thaidakar aka K-Money is a possibility, we just don’t know yet.

Wit is also a possibility, pending what happened in that epilogue.

Overall, Kaladin “should” be chosen... it’s beyond obvious that he’s the biggest bad *** in the series. Dalinar simply made a bad deal and bad champion choice, books 6-10 are gonna be a level 5, 35-40 year old Kaladin redoing the job the right way and becoming the new version of Adonalsium. And he’s gonna have to face-down and kill evil odium-owned Dalinar in the process. My 2 cents

Kelsier does not want Odium to win. The GBs were actually pretty clear on that. If Odium looks like he’s getting free they will likely side with his enemies to stop him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-12-04 at 4:09 AM, joesleepsalot said:

Thaidakar aka K-Money is a possibility, we just don’t know yet.

Kelsier wouldn't risk his life for Taravangians sake in a fight that he has zero investment in. Furthermore, I don't think Kelsier likes Shards in general, so I doubt he would fight for any one of them unless their goals happened to align perfectly. Furthermore, Kelsier would be an out-of-the-left-field choice for everyone who hasn't read Mistborn. 

On 2020-12-04 at 9:43 AM, thorongil said:

Why not Nale? He already switched to Odium's side, so he should be quite willing and his fighting skills are pretty sublime as we have seen in RoW. Also, it could make for an intriguing setup when Szeth goes up against his former master.

Nale fights for the Singers, not for Odium. I doubt he would be willing to become Odiums Champion. Furthermore, I think Szeth and Nale has too little of a setup to work as the major climactic showdown for Book 5. His fighting skills being awesome is also an argument against him: having any of the main characters becoming that awesome at fighting in ten days would be very much a stretch. Unless, that is, they manage to restore Taln, and have him fight Nale, but then we have the same issue as with Szeth/Nale: that conflict hasnt been built up enough. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surprised that most posts here not only ignore that the champion needs to be willing, but also this quote from a Dalinar's vision:

 

Quote

"Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red.

Dalinar stared deep into those eyes, and felt a chill wash through him. Though the destruction raged around him, vaporizing rocks, those eyes frightened him more. He saw something terribly familiar in them.

(...) This was the enemy's champion. And he was coming. "

This disqualifies children, Adolin, most likely Szeth too - it's highly unlikely Odium at this point would be able to corrupt them that far, and make them willing champions too.

On the other hand there is "something terribly familiar". The question is is it the familiarity of a person, or of a feeling (Thrill)?

 

On 12/4/2020 at 1:00 AM, Roocifer said:

Gavilar.

His soul was captured by Odium before it made it to the spiritual realm and held captive on Braize. T-vessel staples his Cognitive Shadow back to a body and has him fight his brother. Dalinar is completely thrown off by the fact that Gavilar is Odium's champion and Gavilar wins.

Didn't Brandon say somewhere that we would get a Gavilar POV for the night he was assassinated in the beginning of book 5? If so, this would make sense.

Sorry, I'm overflowing with wild theories after finishing RoW

This sounds actually possible, based on the above. And it would make the audience more emotionally invested.

Edited by GameOfGroans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, GameOfGroans said:

Surprised that most posts here not only ignore that the champion needs to be willing, but also this quote from a Dalinar's vision:

 

This disqualifies children, Adolin, most likely Szeth too - it's highly unlikely Odium at this point would be able to corrupt them that far, and make them willing champions too.

On the other hand there is "something terribly familiar". The question is is it the familiarity of a person, or of a feeling (Thrill)?

 

This sounds actually possible, based on the above. And it would make the audience more emotionally invested.

Well there is another solution . The champion is wearing black shardplate and has consumed a vessel for yelig-nar . That would project 9 shadows for 9 surges . His eyes would  be Red . And the familiarity could come from either Gavilar and or the thrill in the champions eyes ! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29.11.2020 at 3:07 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Since Odium got an upgrade in RoW I’m expecting some big things . I absolutely have no idea who it will be . But there are some interesting options 

 

1. El : this Fused is so feared his name is not to be spoken . Even the Pursuer watched his mouth around him . I suspect he is of a type we have not seen yet . One that uses Division !

2. Moash even though he is blinded . I expect Odium can grant him an ability to compensate for loss of eyesight . Like sonar kind of like Daredevil . 
 

3. Nale seeing how he is a Herald and handle Szeth like an unruly stepchild this is almost the worst option for Dalinar . He would be outmatched in fighting skill for sure 

 

4. Adolin : I predicted Adolin to be Odium long ago . Born under the sign of the nine . Pissed at Dalinar for killing his mom . But mostly because he is the one person Dalinar would not want to kill which sounds like Todium all day . I like Adolin a lot so I hope this is not the case . But I would be wrong not to consider him 

5. Someone we haven’t seen yet . My least favorite guess . As this is totally not like Brandon. To not foreshadow this .

 

 

Lastly I don’t like Dalinar being his own champion . I keep thinking about the old lawyer adage . The guy who represents himself has a fool for a client . Dalinar doesn’t have shards and baring him gaining an Honor blade he won’t have shards . Sooo he would be better off letting. Kaladin do it . Or maybe using his bond smith powers to connect himself to Taln and try and borrow his abilities perhaps . I really would like Taln restored to be Dalinar champion but hey Dalinar seems dead set on kicking ass himself .

 

what do you guys think ? Who will be Odiums champion ?

I could also imagine that someone else steps up instead of Dalinar, for some reasons.

El: I hope we see more of this apparent badass. Quite possible, but there'd have to be some build-up.

Moash: Yeah, I can see that coming, though I am not sure whether Moash will be stabe and powerful enough. Maybe with some Taravangian meddling / him influencing Moash in another way than Rayse did, that could happen.

Nale: Huuuuh. Sounds like a good pick. My gut feelings tells me no, he wasn't built up for that.

Adolin: I want some cool storyline for Adolin. This on eis my favourite so far.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/12/2020 at 2:38 AM, GameOfGroans said:

Surprised that most posts here not only ignore that the champion needs to be willing, but also this quote from a Dalinar's vision:

 

This disqualifies children, Adolin, most likely Szeth too - it's highly unlikely Odium at this point would be able to corrupt them that far, and make them willing champions too.

On the other hand there is "something terribly familiar". The question is is it the familiarity of a person, or of a feeling (Thrill)?

 

This sounds actually possible, based on the above. And it would make the audience more emotionally invested.

Can we get any love for the "it's Taln" theory?

Only problem that's ever been mentioned to me is that Taln and Jasnah might have a thing later in the second arc, just on a hunch someone had. Anyone see another problem(or multiple) with it?

Reasoning spoilered for length...

Spoiler

Qualifications: Golden Light((T)Odium), 9 shadows(Stormfather says these are the Unmade), black shardplate, dark figure, red eyes more frightening than the surrounding destruction, and a familiar feeling with Dalinar.

Assumptions: Champion must be willing, (T)Odium must desire them as Champion

Reasons for Taln:

Herald of War. Betrayed by literally everything he believed in, everything he fought for, everything he cared about. Had Connection to Honor, as Dalinar does. Betrayed, like Dalinar was, and left to die with the enemy. Cares deeply being better every time. Cares/cared about other people. Additionally, the nine shadows could be more than the Unmade were it indeed Taln. 9 other Heralds, 4500 divisible by 9.

Also, he's got motivation. If (T)Odium were to make the "give me your pain" shpeel again, but to Taln... This is where a lot of people say no, Taln wouldn't do that, he's a Stoneward and never broke. I say that 4500 years of being betrayed by the people you love most, not to mention losing everything you cared for(sanity, relationships, hobbies, etc.), and being tortured by all the Shard's minions would be enough to break someone. I unfortunately don't have RoW yet, so I might be missing stuff(I have no self control so I looked in spoilers)(I'm gonna read it 8 times anyway).

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...