+Czernobog Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 All the way back in WoK, in chapter 36, The Lesson: Quote Could Shallan really do it? Could she betray this woman who had taken her in? Considering what I've done before, she thought, this is nothing. It wouldn't be the first time she betrayed someone who trusted her. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightflame Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 I like the line in The Way of Kings about her Shardblade being the "fruit of her greatest sin", which never really made sense until we learned that her greatest sin was killing Testament. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) also the fact that she needed 10 heartbeats. because her blade was a dead one it's amazing that two different cryptics even tried to bond the same person Edited November 27, 2020 by king of nowhere 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Czernobog Posted November 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 With strong implications by Pattern that, should Shallan kill him, another would definitely be sent to bond her with her. Why?!? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maetel39 Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 On 27/11/2020 at 2:57 PM, Czernobog said: With strong implications by Pattern that, should Shallan kill him, another would definitely be sent to bond her with her. Why?!? I wondered about this too. First, that when choosing someone to bond with they chose a child. I think in the Lift interlude Wyndle mentioned that they chose her because of her interaction with Cultivation. And secondly, that not only were they willing to send a second Cryptic to someone who killed the first, Pattern thinks they would send a third after she killed him. Why the fixation on Shallan? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 1 hour ago, maetel39 said: I wondered about this too. First, that when choosing someone to bond with they chose a child. I think in the Lift interlude Wyndle mentioned that they chose her because of her interaction with Cultivation. And secondly, that not only were they willing to send a second Cryptic to someone who killed the first, Pattern thinks they would send a third after she killed him. Why the fixation on Shallan? Shallan must have been the First New Radiant, surely? Given how old she was when she killed her mother? Just as Kal is unique in his way, Shallan is in hers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 17 hours ago, maetel39 said: I wondered about this too. First, that when choosing someone to bond with they chose a child. I think in the Lift interlude Wyndle mentioned that they chose her because of her interaction with Cultivation. And secondly, that not only were they willing to send a second Cryptic to someone who killed the first, Pattern thinks they would send a third after she killed him. Why the fixation on Shallan? I'm not sure why Testament originally chose her, but I think Pattern and the theoretical post-Pattern Cryptics are hoping to revive Testament. The wording of the response here seems important: Quote “Could it be rescued?” Dalinar whispered as they entered the tower and climbed a stairway. “Could we save the spren who made this Blade?” I know of no way, the Stormfather said. It is dead, as is the man who broke his oath to kill it. Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 287). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Implying that there may well be a way to save a deadeye spren if the Radiant they were bonded to is still alive. Presumably by the Radiant swearing oaths of a higher level than before. So the Cryptics plan to just keep throwing themselves at Shallan until she hits that highest oath 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storyspren Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 On 11/27/2020 at 2:51 PM, king of nowhere said: also the fact that she needed 10 heartbeats. because her blade was a dead one it's amazing that two different cryptics even tried to bond the same person Are you talking about when Shallan killed Tyn? Do you think that was testament, not pattern? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danex Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said: Implying that there may well be a way to save a deadeye spren if the Radiant they were bonded to is still alive. Haven’t we actually see this happen already? Kal broke his oaths, he killed Syl. But he was able to save her when he said his next oath. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, Ookla the Disproportionate said: Haven’t we actually see this happen already? Kal broke his oaths, he killed Syl. But he was able to save her when he said his next oath. Yep, I think the other Cryptics realized Shallan had wrapped herself so tightly in lies that it would be very unlikely she'd advance to the next level of truths on her own though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IndigoAjah Posted November 30, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Storyspren said: Are you talking about when Shallan killed Tyn? Do you think that was testament, not pattern? Someone on Facebook posted proof that Shallan used two separate Blades (Dalinar style). Words of Radiance Quote Ten heartbeats. But for her, it didn’t have to be ten, did it? No. It must be. Time, I need time! She had spheres in her sleeve. As Tyn approached, Shallan breathed in sharply. Stormlight became a raging tempest inside of her and she raised her hand, thrusting out a pulse of Light. She couldn’t form it into anything— she still didn’t know how—but it seemed for a moment to show a rippling image of Shallan, standing proudly like a woman of the court. Tyn stopped short at the sight of the projection of light and color, then waved her sword out in front of her. The Light rippled, dissipating into smoky trails. “So I’m going mad,” Tyn said. “Hearing voices. Seeing things. I guess part of me doesn’t want to do this.” She advanced, raising her blade. “I’m sorry that you have to learn the lesson this way . Sometimes, we must do things we don’t like, kid. Difficult things.” Shallan growled , thrusting her hands forward. Mist twisted and writhed in her hands as a brilliantly silver Blade formed there, spearing Tyn through the chest. The woman barely had time to gasp in surprise as her eyes burned in her skull. Later in the same book Quote aladin stared at the glistening length of metal, which dripped with condensation from its summoning. It glowed softly the color of garnet along several faint lines down its length. Shallan had a Shardblade. He twisted his head toward her, and in so doing, his cheek brushed the flat of the blade . No screams. He froze, then cautiously raised a finger and touched the cold metal. Nothing happened. The screech he had heard in his mind when fighting alongside Adolin did not recur. It seemed a very bad sign to him. Though he did not know the meaning of that terrible sound, it was related to his bond with Syl. So yes, I think it's clear she used Testament against Tyn. No screaming though... 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storyspren Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Thanks Indigo. I was wondering about this. Wonder why the different colors. Probably just deadeye blades looking different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Storyspren said: Are you talking about when Shallan killed Tyn? Do you think that was testament, not pattern? i'm talking way back in way of kings, when jasnah brought her out by night with the street thugs, and shallan thinks she can summon a blade. i doubt her bond with pattern had progressed enough by then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Storyspren said: Thanks Indigo. I was wondering about this. Wonder why the different colors. Probably just deadeye blades looking different. I think Deadeye blades tend to be metallic grey/silver etc? And Live Blades tend to be their Spren/Order colour? So Blue for Windrunners, Red for Lightweavers etc. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realmatic Shadow Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, IndigoAjah said: So yes, I think it's clear she used Testament against Tyn. No screaming though... It could be that her bond with Pattern wasn't quite established enough for her to hear the screams, but I find that a little unbelievable. I'm more of the mind that, due to their bond being far enough along for her to be able to summon Testament as a Blade, when summoned after she was killed she didn't scream. It could also be that, in those moments where she did summon that specific Blade, she was living in the Truths she had spoken with Testament, and thus at least somewhat living to her oaths at the time. Edited November 30, 2020 by Realmatic Shadow "was" to "wasn't", so it actually makes sense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smye Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 On 11/28/2020 at 11:55 PM, IndigoAjah said: Shallan must have been the First New Radiant, surely? Given how old she was when she killed her mother? I don't think so... we know that in approximately 1153 (3 years prior to Shallan's birth), Nale began his crusade to stop other Orders from returning, killing budding Radiants (excepting those who would fit as Skybreakers, of course). This would strongly suggest the 'new' Radiants began showing up sooner than Shallan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane_Privileged Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 On 11/29/2020 at 1:55 AM, IndigoAjah said: Shallan must have been the First New Radiant, surely? Given how old she was when she killed her mother? Just as Kal is unique in his way, Shallan is in hers. We also saw Ym the Truthwatcher in WoK, who I believe was fairly old. Granted, we don't know when he bonded his Mistspren, but it's possible he had been bonded for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 44 minutes ago, Smye said: I don't think so... we know that in approximately 1153 (3 years prior to Shallan's birth), Nale began his crusade to stop other Orders from returning, killing budding Radiants (excepting those who would fit as Skybreakers, of course). This would strongly suggest the 'new' Radiants began showing up sooner than Shallan. Good point. Man, Shallan is probably very "lucky" she killed her mother and her Spren then, I forgot Nale was around 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smye Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said: Good point. Man, Shallan is probably very "lucky" she killed her mother and her Spren then, I forgot Nale was around No kidding... not to mention her good fortune in having an acolyte be the one who went after her. Honestly, given that she had earned her Testament-Blade and, even after killing Testament, was primed for a bond I'm shocked Nale never tried to hunt her down himself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted December 1, 2020 Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/29/2020 at 7:49 PM, IndigoAjah said: Someone on Facebook posted proof that Shallan used two separate Blades (Dalinar style). no screaming though... I’ll devil’s advocate the color difference. The blade is silver in both passages, and the glowing lines are just that, a glow. Dalinar notes something quite similar with Shardplate in his visions, no? It’s why we figured the woman in the Thunderclast vision was a Dustbringer, from the red glows. the reason it’s not mentioned in the first scene is because Tyn’s body is blocking it, whereas Kaladin has an unimpeded view later. By making it Pattern both times, there’d be no screams. That’d work, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trav Posted December 1, 2020 Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 Shardblades can be sort of bonded too. is it even confirmed that Radiants would hear screams from blades they bonded? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondMind Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 19 hours ago, trav said: Shardblades can be sort of bonded too. is it even confirmed that Radiants would hear screams from blades they bonded? Yes, Dalinar heard a scream from his bonded Blade at the end of WoR, after bonding the Stormfather. He unbonds the Blade immediately after hearing the screams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 It is pretty moot to argue about how the Testament blade will work as we have never before seen a deadeye blade wielded by their original radiant. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 Jofwu posted about some great foreshadowing too in this thread: The key line is: Quote Word of Radiance chapter 22: Liespren, Jasnah called them, Shallan wrote. A moniker they don’t like, apparently. When I Soulcast for the first time, a voice demanded a truth from me. I still don’t know what that means, and Jasnah has not been forthcoming. She doesn’t seem to know what to make of my experience either. I do not think that voice belonged to Pattern, but I cannot say, as he seems to have forgotten much about himself. So I just thought I'd add that in here. I liked the Testament reveal but I couldn't quite piece it together with Words of Radiance's Pattern dialogue, so these subtle clues help. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) On 2020-12-02 at 3:46 PM, Chaos said: Jofwu posted about some great foreshadowing too in this thread: The key line is: So I just thought I'd add that in here. I liked the Testament reveal but I couldn't quite piece it together with Words of Radiance's Pattern dialogue, so these subtle clues help. I always read this voice as being the voice of the item she turned into blood (like how the stick spoke or how the stone spoke to Venli). Either your idea or mine could be true, I think. I would prefer if it was Testament, but I am not convinced Testement can speak even as a deadeye wielded by her original radiant. Maybe though! Edited December 10, 2020 by teknopathetic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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