Czernobog

Impressive Testament foreshadowing

33 posts in this topic

All the way back in WoK, in chapter 36, The Lesson:

Quote

Could Shallan really do it? Could she betray this woman who had taken her in? Considering what I've done before, she thought, this is nothing. It wouldn't be the first time she betrayed someone who trusted her. 

 

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I like the line in The Way of Kings about her Shardblade being the "fruit of her greatest sin", which never really made sense until we learned that her greatest sin was killing Testament.

 

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also the fact that she needed 10 heartbeats. because her blade was a dead one

it's amazing that two different cryptics even tried to bond the same person

Edited by king of nowhere
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With strong implications by Pattern that, should Shallan kill him, another would definitely be sent to bond her with her. Why?!?

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On 27/11/2020 at 2:57 PM, Czernobog said:

With strong implications by Pattern that, should Shallan kill him, another would definitely be sent to bond her with her. Why?!?

I wondered about this too. First, that when choosing someone to bond with they chose a child. I think in the Lift interlude Wyndle mentioned that they chose her because of her interaction with Cultivation. And secondly, that not only were they willing to send a second Cryptic to someone who killed the first, Pattern thinks they would send a third after she killed him. Why the fixation on Shallan?

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1 hour ago, maetel39 said:

I wondered about this too. First, that when choosing someone to bond with they chose a child. I think in the Lift interlude Wyndle mentioned that they chose her because of her interaction with Cultivation. And secondly, that not only were they willing to send a second Cryptic to someone who killed the first, Pattern thinks they would send a third after she killed him. Why the fixation on Shallan?

Shallan must have been the First New Radiant, surely? Given how old she was when she killed her mother?

 

Just as Kal is unique in his way, Shallan is in hers. 

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17 hours ago, maetel39 said:

I wondered about this too. First, that when choosing someone to bond with they chose a child. I think in the Lift interlude Wyndle mentioned that they chose her because of her interaction with Cultivation. And secondly, that not only were they willing to send a second Cryptic to someone who killed the first, Pattern thinks they would send a third after she killed him. Why the fixation on Shallan?

I'm not sure why Testament originally chose her, but I think Pattern and the theoretical post-Pattern Cryptics are hoping to revive Testament.  The wording of the response here seems important:

Quote

“Could it be rescued?” Dalinar whispered as they entered the tower and climbed a stairway. “Could we save the spren who made this Blade?”

I know of no way, the Stormfather said. It is dead, as is the man who broke his oath to kill it.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 287). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Implying that there may well be a way to save a deadeye spren if the Radiant they were bonded to is still alive.  Presumably by the Radiant swearing oaths of a higher level than before.  So the Cryptics plan to just keep throwing themselves at Shallan until she hits that highest oath :P

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On 11/27/2020 at 2:51 PM, king of nowhere said:

also the fact that she needed 10 heartbeats. because her blade was a dead one

it's amazing that two different cryptics even tried to bond the same person

Are you talking about when Shallan killed Tyn? Do you think that was testament, not pattern?

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11 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Implying that there may well be a way to save a deadeye spren if the Radiant they were bonded to is still alive. 

Haven’t we actually see this happen already? Kal broke his oaths, he killed Syl. But he was able to save her when he said his next oath. 

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Just now, Ookla the Disproportionate said:

Haven’t we actually see this happen already? Kal broke his oaths, he killed Syl. But he was able to save her when he said his next oath. 

Yep, I think the other Cryptics realized Shallan had wrapped herself so tightly in lies that it would be very unlikely she'd advance to the next level of truths on her own though.

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Thanks Indigo. I was wondering about this. Wonder why the different colors. Probably just deadeye blades looking different.

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1 hour ago, Storyspren said:

Are you talking about when Shallan killed Tyn? Do you think that was testament, not pattern?

i'm talking way back in way of kings, when jasnah brought her out by night with the street thugs, and shallan thinks she can summon a blade. i doubt her bond with pattern had progressed enough by then

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3 minutes ago, Storyspren said:

Thanks Indigo. I was wondering about this. Wonder why the different colors. Probably just deadeye blades looking different.

I think Deadeye blades tend to be metallic grey/silver etc?

And Live Blades tend to be their Spren/Order colour? So Blue for Windrunners, Red for Lightweavers etc. 

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13 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

So yes, I think it's clear she used Testament against Tyn. No screaming though...

It could be that her bond with Pattern wasn't quite established enough for her to hear the screams, but I find that a little unbelievable. I'm more of the mind that, due to their bond being far enough along for her to be able to summon Testament as a Blade, when summoned after she was killed she didn't scream. It could also be that, in those moments where she did summon that specific Blade, she was living in the Truths she had spoken with Testament, and thus at least somewhat living to her oaths at the time.

Edited by Realmatic Shadow
"was" to "wasn't", so it actually makes sense
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On 11/28/2020 at 11:55 PM, IndigoAjah said:

Shallan must have been the First New Radiant, surely? Given how old she was when she killed her mother?

I don't think so... we know that in approximately 1153 (3 years prior to Shallan's birth), Nale began his crusade to stop other Orders from returning, killing budding Radiants (excepting those who would fit as Skybreakers, of course). This would strongly suggest the 'new' Radiants began showing up sooner than Shallan.

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On 11/29/2020 at 1:55 AM, IndigoAjah said:

Shallan must have been the First New Radiant, surely? Given how old she was when she killed her mother?

 

Just as Kal is unique in his way, Shallan is in hers. 

We also saw Ym the Truthwatcher in WoK, who I believe was fairly old. Granted, we don't know when he bonded his Mistspren, but it's possible he had been bonded for a while. 

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44 minutes ago, Smye said:

I don't think so... we know that in approximately 1153 (3 years prior to Shallan's birth), Nale began his crusade to stop other Orders from returning, killing budding Radiants (excepting those who would fit as Skybreakers, of course). This would strongly suggest the 'new' Radiants began showing up sooner than Shallan.

Good point.

 

Man, Shallan is probably very "lucky" she killed her mother and her Spren then, I forgot Nale was around 

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3 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

Good point.

 

Man, Shallan is probably very "lucky" she killed her mother and her Spren then, I forgot Nale was around 

No kidding... not to mention her good fortune in having an acolyte be the one who went after her. Honestly, given that she had earned her Testament-Blade and, even after killing Testament, was primed for a bond I'm shocked Nale never tried to hunt her down himself.

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On 11/29/2020 at 7:49 PM, IndigoAjah said:

Someone on Facebook posted proof that Shallan used two separate Blades (Dalinar style).

no screaming though...

I’ll devil’s advocate the color difference. The blade is silver in both passages, and the glowing lines are just that, a glow.

Dalinar notes something quite similar with Shardplate in his visions, no? It’s why we figured the woman in the Thunderclast vision was a Dustbringer, from the red glows.

the reason it’s not mentioned in the first scene is because Tyn’s body is blocking it, whereas Kaladin has an unimpeded view later.

By making it Pattern both times, there’d be no screams.

That’d work, right?

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Shardblades can be sort of bonded too.
is it even confirmed that Radiants would hear screams from blades they bonded?

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19 hours ago, trav said:

Shardblades can be sort of bonded too.
is it even confirmed that Radiants would hear screams from blades they bonded?

Yes, Dalinar heard a scream from his bonded Blade at the end of WoR, after bonding the Stormfather. He unbonds the Blade immediately after hearing the screams.

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It is pretty moot to argue about how the Testament blade will work as we have never before seen a deadeye blade wielded by their original radiant. 

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Jofwu posted about some great foreshadowing too in this thread:

The key line is: 

Quote

 

Word of Radiance chapter 22:

Liespren, Jasnah called them, Shallan wrote. A moniker they don’t like, apparently. When I Soulcast for the first time, a voice demanded a truth from me. I still don’t know what that means, and Jasnah has not been forthcoming. She doesn’t seem to know what to make of my experience either. I do not think that voice belonged to Pattern, but I cannot say, as he seems to have forgotten much about himself.

 

So I just thought I'd add that in here. I liked the Testament reveal but I couldn't quite piece it together with Words of Radiance's Pattern dialogue, so these subtle clues help.

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On 2020-12-02 at 3:46 PM, Chaos said:

Jofwu posted about some great foreshadowing too in this thread:

The key line is: 

So I just thought I'd add that in here. I liked the Testament reveal but I couldn't quite piece it together with Words of Radiance's Pattern dialogue, so these subtle clues help.

I always read this voice as being the voice of the item she turned into blood (like how the stick spoke or how the stone spoke to Venli). Either your idea or mine could be true, I think. I would prefer if it was Testament, but I am not convinced Testement can speak even as a deadeye wielded by her original radiant. Maybe though!

Edited by teknopathetic
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