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The updated endgame


Koloss17

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WARNING: THERE WILL BE DAWNSHARD SPOILERS, AS WELL AS GENERAL COSMERE SPOILERS

 

 

 

 

So we now have lot more pieces of The cosmere endgame after reading RoW (and dawnshard). We now know more of the ghostblood’s influence, what dawnshards are, and that the sons of honor exist.

so here’s the updated endgame characters and groups

ORGANIZATIONS

      •The 17th shard
These guys will definitely prevail until the endgame. They are wide reaching and powerful. They want to keep Adonalsium from reforming for seemingly unknown reasons (other than Adonalsium dangerous and really powerful). They will probably be a force of good, in the end (probably).

     •The Ghostbloods

these guys will also have a fantastic chance of making it until the endgame. They are scheming and about as powerful and far reaching as the 17th shard. It’s not entirely certain what their motives are either, but it is probably not good. Now that we know that their leader is likely Kelsier, they are more dangerous than ever. They are likely going to be a force of evil in the endgame.
 

      •the ‘cult’ of Trell
the cult of Trell (which is what I’m calling them now) is pretty dangerous and seems to be an invested third party, likely working for autonomy, though we are not sure. They are currently sieging Scadrial for mostly unknown reasons. The set also seem to be part of this organization. We don’t know what they are doing, but they seem to be powerful enough to be in the endgame. They will probably be a force of evil in the cosmere.

     •the IRE

this organization is one that I doubt will be in the endgame, but is a notable group. They are very cosmere aware, and seem to have connections all across the cosmere, through scholarly knowledge or trade deals. They could be a wild card, but likely they will not last into the endgame.

     •The Sons of Honor

This group is another unlikely one. They seem to be specifically Roshar oriented. They will likely play an important role within Roshar, therefore playing a role in creating the endgame, but will likely not remain until the endgame. If they do, they will likely be a wildcard.

     •The Dysian Aimians

these aimians have a few members on other planets, have guarded one of the dawnshards, and is now helping that dawnshard’s vessel. There is a decent chance they will get slain by Todium by the end of the stormlight arc, but if they survive until the endgame, they will be a force of good.

SHARDS AND PRIMORDIAL COSMERE OBJECTS

       •Odium

 this one is fairly clear. They are the most dangerous shard, has already shattered four other shards. Taravangian might not hold it, but it will definitely be a force of evil, likely having odium’s vessel only holding one shard.

     •Harmony

this is also a pretty cut and dry one. Currently, it is one vessel holding two shards. I think that will stay true until the endgame, but the vessel might not be Sazed (though I hope it is). Harmony will almost certainly be a force of good in the endgame.

     •Endowment 

Endowment seems to have some master plan, we just don’t know what it is currently. There is a lot of funky things going on with Nalthis, and that is likely due to Endowment. Edgli will likely prevail to the endgame due to her plan. She will probably be a force of good, but it is an uncertain good.

       •Autonomy

autonomy is another shard that is currently scheming. She seems to have avatars all over the cosmere, has restricted access to Taldain in the cognitive realm, and is likely meddling with Scadrial in the form of Trell. Bavadin will likely stay until the endgame, given their plots, and will almost certainly be a force of evil.  

     •Honor

We all know that Honor is probably going to have a vessel by the end of the stormlight arc, possibly even during stormlight 5. The question is, by who? There’s a chance it’ll be Dalinar, there’s a chance it’ll be someone completely different. Whoever it is though, there is an almost guaranteed chance that they will be a force of good in the endgame (if they make it there. I think they will, though).

     • Dominion and Devotion

these two are currently shattered by Odium, but I bet they will be brought back before the endgame hits. I think they will be another merged shard, because I think it makes sense (and would be cool). If that is the case, I think they will be a force of good. If that is not the case, each of them are wild cards.

     •Cultivation
she has a grand plan, likely involving the next vessel of Cultivation (possibly Lift!). Whoever controls cultivation, I’m sure Cultivation will be a powerful force of good in the endgame.

•the dawnshards

These bad boys will DEFINITELY be in the endgame. The only questions are who will hold them and which side will they be on. The dawnshard of change might stick with Rysn until the endgame, but I’m not sure on that one. I think there will be at least one (maybe THE one) that will be a force of evil in the endgame. They will all definitely be very integral pieces of the endgame.

CHARACTERS

     •Hoid

This one is the most obvious of them. He will almost certainly be part of the endgame (talking like 97% here) and will undoubtably be a force of good. We still don’t know what his plans are and why he is collecting magic systems, but I think that will definitely play into the endgame.

     •Nightblood

This one is also an obvious one. He is way to powerful to not make it until the endgame and his “destroy evil” command makes it pretty much impossible for him to be a force of evil. He will be a dangerous (and comedic) tool on the side of the ‘good guys’. 
 

     •Kelsier

He’s a cognitive shadow that is meddling in the affairs of gods. He will either be smited long before the endgame or live until the endgame because of that. The fact that he is likely the head of the Ghostbloods will help his chances. He can either be a force for good or a force of evil, though I am leaning toward a force of evil. Many years of existing in the roughs of the cosmere will definitely do something to the mind, especially one of a psychopath’s. 

     •Vasher

He’s immortal, so he could live until the endgame. We do see he is a man that has given up on fighting, so I doubt he will fight in the endgame. There is no reason for him to get killed off before the endgame, so he might live. I bet he’s part of edgli’s master plan. He will be a force of good if he gets there, though.

     •Rysn

There is a decent chance she will not be alive to see the endgame, but if she does, she will be a strong force of good.

     •Marsh

This is one I somewhat doubt. He has enough atium to last ‘til mistborn era 3, likely era 4, but he is no immortal. I doubt he will last until the endgame. If he does though, he will be a force of good.
 

     •Khrissalia

She will be probably an important part for influencing what happens in the endgame, but I doubt she will survive until the endgame. Maybe if she controls a dawnshard though...

 
 


I think that’s a wrap! That is my updated idea for the contenders of the final fight for the cosmere! Tell me if I missed anything important (as well as your thoughts on it)!

 

Edited by Koloss17
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6 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

WARNING: THERE WILL BE DAWNSHARD SPOILERS, AS WELL AS GENERAL COSMERE SPOILERS

 

 

 

 

So we now have lot more pieces of The cosmere endgame after reading RoW (and dawnshard). We now know more of the ghostblood’s influence, what dawnshards are, and that the sons of honor exist.

so here’s the updated endgame characters and groups

ORGANIZATIONS

      •The 17th shard
These guys will definitely prevail until the endgame. They are wide reaching and powerful. They want to keep Adonalsium from reforming for seemingly unknown reasons (other than Adonalsium dangerous and really powerful). They will probably be a force of good, in the end (probably).

     •The Ghostbloods

these guys will also have a fantastic chance of making it until the endgame. They are scheming and about as powerful and far reaching as the 17th shard. It’s not entirely certain what their motives are either, but it is probably not good. Now that we know that their leader is likely Kelsier, they are more dangerous than ever. They are likely going to be a force of evil in the endgame.
 

      •the ‘cult’ of Trell
the cult of Trell (which is what I’m calling them now) is pretty dangerous and seems to be an invested third party, likely working for autonomy, though we are not sure. They are currently sieging Scadrial for mostly unknown reasons. The set also seem to be part of this organization. We don’t know what they are doing, but they seem to be powerful enough to be in the endgame. They will probably be a force of evil in the cosmere.

     •the IRE

this organization is one that I doubt will be in the endgame, but is a notable group. They are very cosmere aware, and seem to have connections all across the cosmere, through scholarly knowledge or trade deals. They could be a wild card, but likely they will not last into the endgame.

     •The Sons of Honor

This group is another unlikely one. They seem to be specifically Roshar oriented. They will likely play an important role within Roshar, therefore playing a role in creating the endgame, but will likely not remain until the endgame. If they do, they will likely be a wildcard.

     •The Siah Aimians

these aimians have a few members on other planets, have guarded one of the dawnshards, and is now helping that dawnshard’s vessel. There is a decent chance they will get slain by Todium by the end of the stormlight arc, but if they survive until the endgame, they will be a force of good.

SHARDS AND PRIMORDIAL COSMERE OBJECTS

       •Odium

 this one is fairly clear. They are the most dangerous shard, has already shattered four other shards. Taravangian might not hold it, but it will definitely be a force of evil, likely having odium’s vessel only holding one shard.

     •Harmony

this is also a pretty cut and dry one. Currently, it is one vessel holding two shards. I think that will stay true until the endgame, but the vessel might not be Sazed (though I hope it is). Harmony will almost certainly be a force of good in the endgame.

     •endowment 

Endowment seems to have some master plan, we just don’t know what it is currently. There is a lot of funky things going on with Nalthis, and that is likely due to Endowment. Edgli will likely prevail to the endgame due to her plan. She will probably be a force of good, but it is an uncertain good.

       •Autonomy

autonomy is another shard that is currently scheming. She seems to have avatars all over the cosmere, has restricted access to Taldain in the cognitive realm, and is likely meddling with Scadrial in the form of Trell. Bavadin will likely stay until the endgame, given their plots, and will almost certainly be a force of evil.  

     •Honor

We all know that Honor is probably going to have a vessel by the end of the stormlight arc, possibly even during stormlight 5. The question is, by who? There’s a chance it’ll be Dalinar, there’s a chance it’ll be someone completely different. Whoever it is though, there is an almost guaranteed chance that they will be a force of good in the endgame (if they make it there. I think they will, though).

     • Dominion and Devotion

these two are currently shattered by Odium, but I bet they will be brought back before the endgame hits. I think they will be another merged shard, because I think it makes sense (and would be cool). If that is the case, I think they will be a force of good. If that is not the case, each of them are wild cards.

     •Cultivation
she has a grand plan, likely involving the next vessel of Cultivation (possibly Lift!). Whoever controls cultivation, I’m sure Cultivation will be a powerful force of good in the endgame.

•the dawnshards

These bad boys will DEFINITELY be in the endgame. The only questions are who will hold them and which side will they be on. The dawnshard of change might stick with Rysn until the endgame, but I’m not sure on that one. I think there will be at least one (maybe THE one) that will be a force of evil in the endgame. They will all definitely be very integral pieces of the endgame.

CHARACTERS

     •Hoid

This one is the most obvious of them. He will almost certainly be part of the endgame (talking like 97% here) and will undoubtably be a force of good. We still don’t know what his plans are and why he is collecting magic systems, but I think that will definitely play into the endgame.

     •Nightblood

This one is also an obvious one. He is way to powerful to not make it until the endgame and his “destroy evil” command makes it pretty much impossible for him to be a force of evil. He will be a dangerous (and comedic) tool on the side of the ‘good guys’. 
 

     •Kelsier

He’s a cognitive shadow that is meddling in the affairs of gods. He will either be smited long before the endgame or live until the endgame because of that. The fact that he is likely the head of the Ghostbloods will help his chances. He can either be a force for good or a force of evil, though I am leaning toward a force of evil. Many years of existing in the roughs of the cosmere will definitely do something to the mind, especially one of a psychopath’s. 
 

     •Rysn

There is a decent chance she will not be alive to see the endgame, but if she does, she will be a strong force of good.

     •Marsh

This is one I somewhat doubt. He has enough atium to last ‘til mistborn era 3, likely era 4, but he is no immortal. I doubt he will last until the endgame. If he does though, he will be a force of good.


I think that’s a wrap! That is my updated idea for the contenders of the final fight for the cosmere! Tell me if I missed anything important (as well as your thoughts on it)!

 

Hoid will definitely be in the Endgame because he’s slated to be a major character in MB4.

Kell is a bigger question; he’ll survive until Era 3 (because he’s slated to appear) but Brandon hasn’t hinted as to what happens after.

I think the GBs are less likely to be evil than they are to be morally ambiguous and pro-Scadrial. Kell himself tends to be pro-Scadrial and endgame IS Mistborn, so if he survives to the end he’ll probably be on the protagonists side - or, at least, Scadrial’s.

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1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Hoid will definitely be in the Endgame because he’s slated to be a major character in MB4.

Kell is a bigger question; he’ll survive until Era 3 (because he’s slated to appear) but Brandon hasn’t hinted as to what happens after.

I think the GBs are less likely to be evil than they are to be morally ambiguous and pro-Scadrial. Kell himself tends to be pro-Scadrial and endgame IS Mistborn, so if he survives to the end he’ll probably be on the protagonists side - or, at least, Scadrial’s.

Wait this is news to me. Scadrial is endgame? MB4? Source?

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2 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Wait this is news to me. Scadrial is endgame? MB4? Source?

Space Age Mistborn is the Cosmere Endgame. It’s been stated multiple times, mostly when Brandon discusses the Mistborn’trilogy of trilogies.’ Which is now three trilogies, a quartet, and possible trilogy (which may end up a trilogy of novellas.)

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9 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Space Age Mistborn is the Cosmere Endgame. It’s been stated multiple times, mostly when Brandon discusses the Mistborn’trilogy of trilogies.’ Which is now three trilogies, a quartet, and possible trilogy (which may end up a trilogy of novellas.)

Huh. 

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There is not a shared endgame in this fashion, in my opinion. Stormlight Archive has two arcs, and I'll be extremely surprised if it doesn't have a major endgame and climax. Mistborn 4 is the final arc of the Scadrial books, but that doesn't make Stormlight Archive a chapter to it's conclusion. I don't think it's correct to view the Cosmere as one big arc - I've always had the impression each series is self-contained, but with varying ties to the Cosmere as a whole. You can reach Misborn or Stormlight Archive in isolation and they'll work as narrative arcs.

But it's correct the Kelsier will be around for MB4. But that doesn't mean he can't have an impact on Stormlight Archive. It also doesn't mean that Odium can't be involved in MB4. But they're different arcs.

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7 minutes ago, Golstar said:

There is not a shared endgame in this fashion, in my opinion. Stormlight Archive has two arcs, and I'll be extremely surprised if it doesn't have a major endgame and climax. Mistborn 4 is the final arc of the Scadrial books, but that doesn't make Stormlight Archive a chapter to it's conclusion. I don't think it's correct to view the Cosmere as one big arc - I've always had the impression each series is self-contained, but with varying ties to the Cosmere as a whole. You can reach Misborn or Stormlight Archive in isolation and they'll work as narrative arcs.

But it's correct the Kelsier will be around for MB4. But that doesn't mean he can't have an impact on Stormlight Archive. It also doesn't mean that Odium can't be involved in MB4. But they're different arcs.

Kell will be involved in Mistborn 3. I don’t think we’ve been told if he’ll be around in Era 4.

Questioner

And will we find out more in the next Wax and Wayne book or do we need to wait and find out more later?

Brandon Sanderson

You will find out more in the Wax and Wayne book, really that that's going on there is foreshadowing for era 3, and for future Secret History stories if I do them. So the Wax and Wayne books are not about the return of Kelsier, but the return of Kelsier is very important for later things in the series.

Are we gonna possibly get another Mistborn: Secret [History]...

Brandon Sanderson

So, depends on my time. Like, Mistborn: Secret History, I started writing in 2006, and I released it in... 2016. So, it took, like, 10 years to get that, because it was a side-project of a side-project. It's, like, so self-indulging, Mistborn: Secret History is...

So, Secret History 2, will I ever have time to do that? Well, it depends on if I can do it in a way I don't feel is interfering with the main Cosmere timeline. Because we would all like to see Secret History 2. But not if it means we don't get Stormlight 9, if that makes sense. It's gonna depend on my writing time, on how I'm feeling about various things. You are more likely to get it the more I work on Era 3, because Kelsier is a part of Era 3.

Kelsier - definitely part of Era 3. Era 4 (5?) is unknown.

Mistborn Era 4 is slated to be the end of the overarching Cosmere story. So yes, it is the endgame. But it won’t be an Avengers style team-up; it’ll be more like Star Trek, with the story being about different cultures meeting and interacting.

Sequel of the Dusk hints that Roshar and Scadrial will be involved in a Cold War across the Cosmere by Era 4.

Brandon Sanderson

You've got this mostly right, though we've just gone ahead and renamed the 1980s one "Era Three" because of confusion, and Wax and Wayne Era Two. (People didn't really take to my Era 1.5 philosophy on that one, so we are just going with the easiest method of discussing it instead.) Era Three will be a little more Tom Clancy spy thriller than cyberpunk. And Era Four is the same as the final cosmere books. (But you forgot Dragonsteel, which will happen right before it--Hoid's origin story.)

V_Spaceman

I hope you don’t mind me asking, how do you think you’ll approach balancing out knowledge self-contained to the Mistborn series with the audience’s need to know about the larger Cosmere? Do people who only read Mistborn have to brush up on Roshar stuff beforehand?

Brandon Sanderson

For the final Mistborn trilogy, they will have to. That will be the cosmere equivalent of Endgame or something--the series that won't really work for you unless you've followed most everything up to that point. Dragonsteel, Era Three, etc should still work as stand-alones.

Is_Meta

That will be the cosmere equivalent of Endgame or something

This sentence alone gives me shivers. I can't wait for all of it. And I hope that everything comes together as you plan and hope.

Brandon Sanderson

I'm always hesitant to make Avengers comparisons, as the cosmere endgame is less about individuals coming together (though there will be some of that) and more about the clash between philosophies and cultures. But who knows? That is several decades away. Right now, I just need to keep working on Stormlight Four.

V_Spaceman

How thick do you think you’ll go for the Era 4 books? Stormlight level word count or keeping with Mistborn’s general length?

Brandon Sanderson

I would anticipate Era Four going Stormlight length. (Though Era Three should be regular Mistborn length, I think.)

Mistborn Era 4 = Cosmere finale

 

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Yes, but I think it's doing Brandon's works a disservice to see them as chapters in the same story. It may be that MB4 ties together a lot of threads and gives a satisfying conclusion to the overarching Cosmere story, but I also expect it to be a fully self-contained narrative in it's own right. That's been the case for the previous Cosmere works. I don't think it's quite 'fair' to Stormlight Archive to not considered it a fully contained story. It will have an endgame of it's own - the Cosmere story will continue of course. But one of the great things about the Cosmere is that you can really jump into any of the series, and they work on their own as amazing stories and settings. The ties between the various series and the shared overarcing story is also great, but I don't expect MB4 to 'require' any previous Cosmere reading to make sense or be fulfilling. It's very likely to give additional context and joy for those who are into such things (and I count myself among them - I look very much forward to this overall 'endgame').

TL;DR - I think there are multiple endgames. Stormlight Archive has an endgame. Scadrial has an endgame. Cosmere has an endgame.

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Just now, Golstar said:

Yes, but I think it's doing Brandon's works a disservice to see them as chapters in the same story. It may be that MB4 ties together a lot of threads and gives a satisfying conclusion to the overarching Cosmere story, but I also expect it to be a fully self-contained narrative in it's own right. That's been the case for the previous Cosmere works. I don't think it's quite 'fair' to Stormlight Archive to not considered it a fully contained story. It will have an endgame of it's own - the Cosmere story will continue of course. But one of the great things about the Cosmere is that you can really jump into any of the series, and they work on their own as amazing stories and settings. The ties between the various series and the shared overarcing story is also great, but I don't expect MB4 to 'require' any previous Cosmere reading to make sense or be fulfilling. It's very likely to give additional context and joy for those who are into such things (and I count myself among them - I look very much forward to this overall 'endgame').

TL;DR - I think there are multiple endgames. Stormlight Archive has an endgame. Scadrial has an endgame. Cosmere has an endgame.

Read the WoB. He’s specifically stated that this is NOT the case. Mistborn Era 4 is going to be the sequel to all the Cosmere series, and those who only read Mistborn will have to ‘brush up’ on their greater Cosmere knowledge. If the author is saying: no, this will not be a self-contained series, just what is there to argue? 
 

TL;DR Brandon has said that A: Era 4 will NOT be self contained and B: “Era Four is the same as the final cosmere books.” I think by denying the author’s own statements you are doing a great disservice to the book’s creator.

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True, now that I re-read it I did let my preconceptions color me too much. That just makes the wait harder for me, but you're absolutely right, the Cosmere end-game is MB4. But I still think that Stormlight Archive will have an endgame of it's own. It's 10 book epic, and I'm sure it won't end on a cliffhanger. For those into the Cosmere as a whole, I'm sure there'll be tons of loose threads and interesting developments, but I am still confident Brandon will manage to create an awesome and fulfilling conclusion to Stormlight Archive.

It's one of the things I greatly admire about his works. Someone can pick up MB1, or just the first book even, and end it there - and it's a great story with a proper climax. Very few writers of fantasy epics manage that feat. Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought the original poster was talking about the Stormlight Archive endgame - and I cannot imagine it's not going to be epic by itself. I love the shared universe of all these books - don't get me wrong - but I don't think Stormlight fans will be left feeling they read a chapter in a bigger story. At least that's never been how I felt reading any of the previous series.

As for the MB4 / overall Cosmere end-game, I think it's going to be full of story threads and actors we haven't even been introduced to yet - and as such it's slightly premature to speculate on that particular end-game. Not that I'd berate anyone for doing so - it's just that I think it's going to be pretty far "ahead" of the Stormlight Archive climax in time, space and story. Does that make sense?

Sorry if I came off as rude - and I do admit I misunderstood that WoB before you corrected me - selection bias is a horrible thing. I just wanted to highlight that I think these books are so much more than 'just' a Cosmere story. I perhaps also misunderstood the original poster, so - heh - my bad on that as well.

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3 minutes ago, Golstar said:

True, now that I re-read it I did let my preconceptions color me too much. That just makes the wait harder for me, but you're absolutely right, the Cosmere end-game is MB4. But I still think that Stormlight Archive will have an endgame of it's own. It's 10 book epic, and I'm sure it won't end on a cliffhanger. For those into the Cosmere as a whole, I'm sure there'll be tons of loose threads and interesting developments, but I am still confident Brandon will manage to create an awesome and fulfilling conclusion to Stormlight Archive.

It's one of the things I greatly admire about his works. Someone can pick up MB1, or just the first book even, and end it there - and it's a great story with a proper climax. Very few writers of fantasy epics manage that feat. Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought the original poster was talking about the Stormlight Archive endgame - and I cannot imagine it's not going to be epic by itself. I love the shared universe of all these books - don't get me wrong - but I don't think Stormlight fans will be left feeling they read a chapter in a bigger story. At least that's never been how I felt reading any of the previous series.

As for the MB4 / overall Cosmere end-game, I think it's going to be full of story threads and actors we haven't even been introduced to yet - and as such it's slightly premature to speculate on that particular end-game. Not that I'd berate anyone for doing so - it's just that I think it's going to be pretty far "ahead" of the Stormlight Archive climax in time, space and story. Does that make sense?

Sorry if I came off as rude - and I do admit I misunderstood that WoB before you corrected me - selection bias is a horrible thing. I just wanted to highlight that I think these books are so much more than 'just' a Cosmere story. I perhaps also misunderstood the original poster, so - heh - my bad on that as well.

SA will have its own Endgame - two, actually. Mistborn will have one in each Era (but possibly not Era 2, as Era 2 is really the lead in to Era 3). Also, many of the books have their own endgames, as do every series. MB4 just so happens to be the endgame for Mistborn AND the Cosmere. No one was really saying otherwise.

I wouldn’t be surprised if SA5 had a warning for MB spoilers though. Thaidakar’s identity is probably the single biggest secret of Era 1, and that was a series with a LOT of secrets. 

We can theorize a little on Era 4. We knew Hoid would be a major character there. We know it’s possible for Kell to be. And we just learned that Scadrial and Roshar are in a Cold War around that time, focusing on trying to control worlds and resources around the Cosmere. Aethers and the Sleepless will also be important in part four. Oh, and the Radiants may be using Warlight, not Stormlight.

We also know the major elements of the Cosmere plan. Dragonsteel/Liar of Partinel, Stormlight Archive, and  Mistborn Eras 1,3, &4. The beginning, middle and end. The Elantris trilogy, White Sand, the Aether story, and a Threnody novel are also quite important somehow.

So we do know quite a bit.

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Wasn't something mentioned of an Aimian being part of the main cast of MB4 as well? I can't remember which WoB it was in, but I'm sure I read it at one point. And yeah you're right we do have a lot of the pieces. But I think we're still missing a lot - if MB3 packs the same punch as the prior arcs, it's going to have some surprises in the store for us.

I'm very excited to discover the antagonist(s) of MB3, because while Stormlight Archive is very upfront about the Cosmere forces at play (even if the exact machinations and meddling worldhoppers are quite mysterious), Mistborn has always kept us more in the dark and slowly unveiled the bigger picture. 

But I agree with your Era 4 theories - I think they're very good bets for what could be involved. But I'm not quite sold on the speculatation by some that this is going to be about one or more big bad Shards and the protagonists fighting to save the Cosmere. I think Scadrial has more surprises in store for us.

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10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Harmony will almost certainly be a force of good in the endgame.

I'm not convinced of this honestly. I have a feeling things will not go well for my boy Sazed eventually. We know that Harmony could be Discord, it was eve n mentioned in an epigraph at one point, and that feels like the kind of thing where if you introduce it you're gonna use it

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The Sons of Honor are basically gone at this point in RoW, so you can scratch them off the list. Probably don't even have any further influence on Roshar, the Ghostbloods and Shallan basically dismantled them all already.

Edited by ftl
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4 hours ago, Realmatic Shadow said:

Minor pedant: You've named the wrong group of Aimians there. From what you said under this point, you're actually referring to the Dysian Aimians (otherwise known as the Sleepless).

Oh heck thank you.

 

6 hours ago, ftl said:

The Sons of Honor are basically gone at this point in RoW, so you can scratch them off the list. Probably don't even have any further influence on Roshar, the Ghostbloods and Shallan basically dismantled them all already.

We still don’t know everything about what Gavilar did while he was in the sons of honor, and I think the events he set in motion are yet to unfold.

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7 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

I think the events he set in motion are yet to unfold.

Probably, but the Sons of Honor themselves seem to be basically gone, so I don't think they're any more worthy of inclusion than anyone else that's been involved in Cosmere-sized events until now; the Radiants we're following, Kelsier's crew, etc.

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4 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Probably, but the Sons of Honor themselves seem to be basically gone, so I don't think they're any more worthy of inclusion than anyone else that's been involved in Cosmere-sized events until now; the Radiants we're following, Kelsier's crew, etc.

Kelsier’s crew has a decent chance of being involved, depending on which iteration we’re talking about.

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On 11/27/2020 at 11:14 AM, Koloss17 said:

WARNING: THERE WILL BE DAWNSHARD SPOILERS, AS WELL AS GENERAL COSMERE SPOILERS

 

 

 

 

So we now have lot more pieces of The cosmere endgame after reading RoW (and dawnshard). We now know more of the ghostblood’s influence, what dawnshards are, and that the sons of honor exist.

so here’s the updated endgame characters and groups

ORGANIZATIONS

      •The 17th shard
These guys will definitely prevail until the endgame. They are wide reaching and powerful. They want to keep Adonalsium from reforming for seemingly unknown reasons (other than Adonalsium dangerous and really powerful). They will probably be a force of good, in the end (probably).

     •The Ghostbloods

these guys will also have a fantastic chance of making it until the endgame. They are scheming and about as powerful and far reaching as the 17th shard. It’s not entirely certain what their motives are either, but it is probably not good. Now that we know that their leader is likely Kelsier, they are more dangerous than ever. They are likely going to be a force of evil in the endgame.
 

      •the ‘cult’ of Trell
the cult of Trell (which is what I’m calling them now) is pretty dangerous and seems to be an invested third party, likely working for autonomy, though we are not sure. They are currently sieging Scadrial for mostly unknown reasons. The set also seem to be part of this organization. We don’t know what they are doing, but they seem to be powerful enough to be in the endgame. They will probably be a force of evil in the cosmere.

     •the IRE

this organization is one that I doubt will be in the endgame, but is a notable group. They are very cosmere aware, and seem to have connections all across the cosmere, through scholarly knowledge or trade deals. They could be a wild card, but likely they will not last into the endgame.

     •The Sons of Honor

This group is another unlikely one. They seem to be specifically Roshar oriented. They will likely play an important role within Roshar, therefore playing a role in creating the endgame, but will likely not remain until the endgame. If they do, they will likely be a wildcard.

     •The Dysian Aimians

these aimians have a few members on other planets, have guarded one of the dawnshards, and is now helping that dawnshard’s vessel. There is a decent chance they will get slain by Todium by the end of the stormlight arc, but if they survive until the endgame, they will be a force of good.

SHARDS AND PRIMORDIAL COSMERE OBJECTS

       •Odium

 this one is fairly clear. They are the most dangerous shard, has already shattered four other shards. Taravangian might not hold it, but it will definitely be a force of evil, likely having odium’s vessel only holding one shard.

     •Harmony

this is also a pretty cut and dry one. Currently, it is one vessel holding two shards. I think that will stay true until the endgame, but the vessel might not be Sazed (though I hope it is). Harmony will almost certainly be a force of good in the endgame.

     •Endowment 

Endowment seems to have some master plan, we just don’t know what it is currently. There is a lot of funky things going on with Nalthis, and that is likely due to Endowment. Edgli will likely prevail to the endgame due to her plan. She will probably be a force of good, but it is an uncertain good.

       •Autonomy

autonomy is another shard that is currently scheming. She seems to have avatars all over the cosmere, has restricted access to Taldain in the cognitive realm, and is likely meddling with Scadrial in the form of Trell. Bavadin will likely stay until the endgame, given their plots, and will almost certainly be a force of evil.  

     •Honor

We all know that Honor is probably going to have a vessel by the end of the stormlight arc, possibly even during stormlight 5. The question is, by who? There’s a chance it’ll be Dalinar, there’s a chance it’ll be someone completely different. Whoever it is though, there is an almost guaranteed chance that they will be a force of good in the endgame (if they make it there. I think they will, though).

     • Dominion and Devotion

these two are currently shattered by Odium, but I bet they will be brought back before the endgame hits. I think they will be another merged shard, because I think it makes sense (and would be cool). If that is the case, I think they will be a force of good. If that is not the case, each of them are wild cards.

     •Cultivation
she has a grand plan, likely involving the next vessel of Cultivation (possibly Lift!). Whoever controls cultivation, I’m sure Cultivation will be a powerful force of good in the endgame.

•the dawnshards

These bad boys will DEFINITELY be in the endgame. The only questions are who will hold them and which side will they be on. The dawnshard of change might stick with Rysn until the endgame, but I’m not sure on that one. I think there will be at least one (maybe THE one) that will be a force of evil in the endgame. They will all definitely be very integral pieces of the endgame.

CHARACTERS

     •Hoid

This one is the most obvious of them. He will almost certainly be part of the endgame (talking like 97% here) and will undoubtably be a force of good. We still don’t know what his plans are and why he is collecting magic systems, but I think that will definitely play into the endgame.

     •Nightblood

This one is also an obvious one. He is way to powerful to not make it until the endgame and his “destroy evil” command makes it pretty much impossible for him to be a force of evil. He will be a dangerous (and comedic) tool on the side of the ‘good guys’. 
 

     •Kelsier

He’s a cognitive shadow that is meddling in the affairs of gods. He will either be smited long before the endgame or live until the endgame because of that. The fact that he is likely the head of the Ghostbloods will help his chances. He can either be a force for good or a force of evil, though I am leaning toward a force of evil. Many years of existing in the roughs of the cosmere will definitely do something to the mind, especially one of a psychopath’s. 

     •Vasher

He’s immortal, so he could live until the endgame. We do see he is a man that has given up on fighting, so I doubt he will fight in the endgame. There is no reason for him to get killed off before the endgame, so he might live. I bet he’s part of edgli’s master plan. He will be a force of good if he gets there, though.

     •Rysn

There is a decent chance she will not be alive to see the endgame, but if she does, she will be a strong force of good.

     •Marsh

This is one I somewhat doubt. He has enough atium to last ‘til mistborn era 3, likely era 4, but he is no immortal. I doubt he will last until the endgame. If he does though, he will be a force of good.
 

     •Khrissalia

She will be probably an important part for influencing what happens in the endgame, but I doubt she will survive until the endgame. Maybe if she controls a dawnshard though...

 
 


I think that’s a wrap! That is my updated idea for the contenders of the final fight for the cosmere! Tell me if I missed anything important (as well as your thoughts on it)!

 

One thought on Vasher / Nightblood / Dawnshards- 

I wonder if a Dawnshard supplied the intent/command to create Nightblood? The sleepless were willing to kill Rysn to hide the knowledge of a Dawnshard. Vasher killed Shashara to hide knowledge of how Nightblood was created. Given how powerful Nightblood is, I suspect something like a Dawnshard was used in its creation in addition to breaths. 

Just a theory. 

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1 hour ago, Gingeriffic! said:

One thought on Vasher / Nightblood / Dawnshards- 

I wonder if a Dawnshard supplied the intent/command to create Nightblood? The sleepless were willing to kill Rysn to hide the knowledge of a Dawnshard. Vasher killed Shashara to hide knowledge of how Nightblood was created. Given how powerful Nightblood is, I suspect something like a Dawnshard was used in its creation in addition to breaths. 

Just a theory. 

Well, Vasher was scared to let out the secret of awakening metal without the ninth heightening I believe, so if it was something hard and obscure, he wouldn’t be scared.

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