Nesh

Did Taln actually break?

22 posts in this topic

We've assumed that Taln broke, and that was what allowed the True Desolation to start.  Now though, we know that the Everstorm had been brew in Shadesmar long before it was actually summoned to the Physical Realm and was used a sort of backdoor for Odium's forces.  Now, I'm not convinced that Taln broke.  The Oathpact had already been weakened, so maybe this backdoor created a loophole.  Taln could have slipped through it as well to try and warn Roshar.  What do you guys think?

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I feel like he didn’t. To me it seems like Axindweth and Venli brought the Voidspren and indoing so Venli brought others. As the return of Void Spren happened Taln came back. 
 

I believe we were told that the Heralds return before the Fused in order to prepare but it doesn’t seem like much time between his return and the Everstorm. 

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If Taln didn't break that just makes him even more awesome, and he did seem to have some level of lucidity when he first arrived.  He knew he was late.

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I hope he eventually recovers and decides to teach Nale a lesson. A brutal lesson involving honorblades, that is.

Edited by MONARCH
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6 hours ago, Nesh said:

The Oathpact had already been weakened, so maybe this backdoor created a loophole.  Taln could have slipped through it as well to try and warn Roshar.

I agree with this point, though I don't think that the loophole let Taln slip through. I think he still 'gave in' and let the proverbial flood gates open for the Fused, but did so as a conscious decision. I'm of the opinion that, when he saw how so many Voidspren were bypassing the Oathpact and getting to Roshar despite his efforts to hold them back, he decided it would be better for him to release the Fused and go ahead of them to Roshar, and hopefully be able to prepare the humans for the incoming threat.

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Considering Ulim told Venli they were working around Taln I think it’s likely that he didn’t break. Also, Dalinar as a bond smith who sees connection made out that Ishar had a “spiritual” problem but didn’t suggest that for Taln - might be a nothing point though as he also doesn’t say anything about Ash’s brokenness which presumably would be the same for the 8 heralds who abandoned Taln. I think he’s just got what Kal’s got but way worse from so much torture and that as Ulim said there was a workaround that, unintentionally, allowed for Taln to be freed. Given his mental state he may not even recognise this.

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2 hours ago, Calcium said:

Considering Ulim told Venli they were working around Taln I think it’s likely that he didn’t break. Also, Dalinar as a bond smith who sees connection made out that Ishar had a “spiritual” problem but didn’t suggest that for Taln - might be a nothing point though as he also doesn’t say anything about Ash’s brokenness which presumably would be the same for the 8 heralds who abandoned Taln. I think he’s just got what Kal’s got but way worse from so much torture and that as Ulim said there was a workaround that, unintentionally, allowed for Taln to be freed. Given his mental state he may not even recognise this.

Even if Taln broke, that doesn't mean that he abandoned the Oathpact. The spiritual problem would probably not come from allowing the Fused back into Roshar, but from the attempt to abandon the Oathpact (or whatever happened with BAM if that turns out to be the cause of the madness).

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Adolin told Kalak in Chapter 87 that Taln didn't break.  I don't know where he got the info better than we did though.  

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We need... I can't believe I am saying this, but...we need Dalinar to touch that crazy old man and see what happens

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I don't think Taln broke. The Everstorm was brought in, the Fused were given a way to return, and they stopped torturing him. He returned because he found himself alone.

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On 11/27/2020 at 2:50 AM, MONARCH said:

I hope he eventually recovers and decides to teach Nale a lesson. A brutal lesson involving honorblades, that is.

I didn't know how much I needed this until you said it! Herald-bowl! GET HYPE

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It is also weird to consider why he broke (if he did). What changed after 4000 years? What could have been the thing Odium used?

Edited by teknopathetic
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On 2020/12/2 at 8:08 AM, Dreamwa1ker said:

I didn't know how much I needed this until you said it! Herald-bowl! GET HYPE

 

 

 

圖片x.png

Edited by MONARCH
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On 12/1/2020 at 0:28 PM, Arch1tect said:

We need... I can't believe I am saying this, but...we need Dalinar to touch that crazy old man and see what happens

Dalinar mentions that he tried his One Weird trick with Nale on Taln and Ash and he couldn't make anything happen.

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I think he did "break," as in willingly release himself and the voidspren to go back to Roshar, but only after he realized that they had already started a desolation by circumventing the Oathpact. Basically, I think he could have kept going but gave in when he realized it was pointless to stay.

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Doesnt the earlier stuff specifically say he broke?

 

"The ancient of stones must finally begin to crack" - WOR, 83 Epigraph

- and -

"...I am Talenel'Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of the Almighty. The Desolation has come. Oh God... it has come. And I have failed." - WOK Epilogue

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8 hours ago, joesleepsalot said:

Doesnt the earlier stuff specifically say he broke?

 

"The ancient of stones must finally begin to crack" - WOR, 83 Epigraph

- and -

"...I am Talenel'Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of the Almighty. The Desolation has come. Oh God... it has come. And I have failed." - WOK Epilogue

Also this Epigraph from WoK:

  • "The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me."
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When Dalinar touched Nale, he saw the 8 lines of Connection leading off, but one was still bright. Would that have been to Taln?

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I think Taln broke. Mostly because it makes his arc that much more interesting. He is the human tank who could take torture for four milennia like a boss and then consider the act of betrayal that left him to that fate to be something amazing. It feels like Taln is supposed to be the one hero who lived up to the myths and legends. No one of the other Heralds did. Not Nale. Not Jezrien. Not Ishar. Not Ash. Only Taln. But the paradox is that Taln too failed, at the end of the day. Not even the strongest, most heroic man could stand alone forever. 

If Taln never broke, he never failed, and thus has no starting point for development. He is still "perfect". If he did break, he is human, with all the failings and weaknesses that entails. And Stormlight is, at the end of the day, a story about humans, not gods. 

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19 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Yes he did.

Kalak said so.

Because we trust Kalak? The guy whose organization was trying to return the Desolations? Who ordered Kaladin’s squad killed? Who is a Herald, someone we’ve been repeatedly told NOT to trust?

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32 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Because we trust Kalak? The guy whose organization was trying to return the Desolations? Who ordered Kaladin’s squad killed? Who is a Herald, someone we’ve been repeatedly told NOT to trust?

Yes. Why should we disbelieve? Everything in the story points to the Heralds having such a Connection to allow for the knowledge

 

Kalak: Jezrien is gone. Despite being all the way out here in Lasting Integrity, I felt him being ripped away. The Oathpact was broken already, but the Connection remained. Each of us can sense the others, to an extent. You’ll be left with a being that eventually fades away into the Beyond. I felt it happen to Jezrien.

Nale: Ishar said only a Connection between the worlds could cause a bridge to open. And Taln has not given in. I would know if he had.…

Ash: They killed my father a year ago. Permanently, somehow. We all felt it.

On 12/2/2020 at 9:21 AM, MONARCH said:

 

 

 

圖片x.png

Hilarious, though I think Nalan is awesome.

Edited by Nymeros
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