Ixthos Posted November 25, 2020 Report Share Posted November 25, 2020 ... Probably still is in effect. He might well be bound to a promise he made to himself, just as he is bound to the promise he made to Dalinar. Could his own deal be what leads to his defeat? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uvara Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) Would this mean selecting a champion from Kharbranth? I do wonder if Odium’s champion would be allowed to kill a Kharbranthian in a duel. Edited November 26, 2020 by Uvara Grammar 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 This is how I was hoping things will resolve themselves; I love the irony that this would represent. I certainly hope this comes into play. Note that the specific terms Odium agreed to are: Quote “Kharbranth,” Odium said. “The city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses. This is whom I will spare. Do you agree to this?” Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 1217). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. (emphasis mine) So it could potentially apply to almost anyone. The wording also seems to imply that it can't be a 'naturalized' citizen, but it might apply to anyone born in Kharbranth, even if not specifically a citizen. It does explicitly say human, however. The biggest issue is that Taravangian is obviously aware of this oath (and it's unclear that anyone else knows about the specifics, although the Diagram people seem to know at least the general outline), he can see the future, and he doesn't seem to consider this to be a problem. Barring someone else who can see the future messing with his vision (Renarin, Cultivation, possibly Rlain), it'd be hard to justify this working. But it would be so elegant. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiePie Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 Would Odium even still be bound to that agreement since Mr. T had violated it by working against Odium when he was a human? It seems to be that oaths made are made to the shard, though it does seem like they can be re-written by someone with enough authority, so Todd could just nullify the previous agreement right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, DiePie said: Would Odium even still be bound to that agreement since Mr. T had violated it by working against Odium when he was a human? It seems to be that oaths made are made to the shard, though it does seem like they can be re-written by someone with enough authority, so Todd could just nullify the previous agreement right? Taravangian actually pledges the Diagram to Odium: Quote What else could he do? “I will take this deal,” Taravangian whispered. “The Diagram will serve you, in exchange for the preservation of my people. But I warn you, the assassin has joined Dalinar Kholin. I was forced to reveal my association with him.” Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 1217). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. But the Diagram is dissolved by the time Taravangian kills Rayse: Quote “The Diagram,” Taravangian said, “has served its purpose. We have protected Kharbranth. We have fulfilled the Diagram. “Both the book and the organization we named after it were merely tools. It is time to disband. Dismantle our secret hospitals; release our soldiers to the city guard. If there are any middling members you think know too much, give them a time-consuming ‘secret’ quest far from civilization. Danlan should be among the first of this group. “As for Delgo, Malata, and the others too useful to waste, I think they will accept the truth. We have achieved our goal. Kharbranth will be safe.” He peered down at his aged hands. Wrinkles like scars for each life he’d taken. “Tell them … there is nothing more pitiful than a tool that has outlived its usefulness. We will not simply invent something new for our organization to do. We must allow that which has served its purpose to die.” Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Arguably, Taravangian kind of played Rayse already by this point, since he specifically trades the services of the Diagram for Kharbranth, and not himself or specific members of the Diagram. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 I wonder why T. thought that Malata would accept the truth and be content with Kharbranth's protection. Isn't she a Veden? Maybe she and Delgo(?) are married in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danox46 Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 I'm not sure Taravangian's deal would cover a "Willing Champion". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 I don't think that deal is in effect. Odium's promise is dependent on Taravangian's loyal service and Taravangian broke this when he killed Odium. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seyon57 Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 On 11/29/2020 at 11:17 AM, Karger said: I don't think that deal is in effect. Odium's promise is dependent on Taravangian's loyal service and Taravangian broke this when he killed Odium. Pardon me replying 2 months late. I would argue that T. did not kill Odium (as Odium is the shard), but actually killed Rayse. Not saying that he did not break the oath, only nitpicking your wording! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Opinion is definitely divided on this question. I agree with @Seloun - the Diagram fulfilled its part of the deal, and was disbanded, so the Kharbranth safety clause should still be in effect. I think it's definitely possible that this deal will wind up tying Todium's hands in some important way. A slightly more recent discussion: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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