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What is Vyre's purpose now?


LuckyJim

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It looks like Jasnah is tackling the class struggles admirably IMO. I think Moash's thing is an illustration of just what it means to completely give yourself over to Odium,  what it looks like. For Moash the class struggle thing was a sham anyway,  a thin veneer for his desire for revenge. Was he meant to be nuanced?  I think so. And if he's somehow separated from Odium he'll be nuanced again,  just with a different set of issues. Brandon rarely lets cartoon cut out villains like what Vyre has become last this long. They either die (see Lezian) or they get some sort of reasoning behind their world view (Sadeas). The fact that Moash still lives tells me he's still got some narrative purposes,  he's still got stuff to do. 

Edited by Bigmikey357
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14 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

I think Moash's thing is an illustration of just what it means to completely give yourself over to Odium,  what it looks like.

I agree. He shows us the opposite choice that Dalinar made, i.e. giving up his pain to Odium and becoming "free." Of course, we know that the second Odium's defense of Vyre wavers, he is crippled by the very emotions he's tried so hard to cast off. I don't know how Brandon will continue to use him in the plot, especially with his new blindness, but I am very excited to see where it goes. I actually think Moash has more nuance than people give him credit for. He had the potential to be so much more, but he couldn't get over his hatred of Lighteyes and it ruined him. 

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On 29/11/2020 at 6:08 PM, Honorless said:

Moash's arc in Rhythm of War was very unsatisfying, his position as the fandom's lightning rod for hatred aside, he was a complicated character, from his role in Words of Radiance to his point-of-view in Oathbringer, he did seem nuanced. His role in RoW felt kind of like a retcon. Oh well, I suppose we have other characters with redemption arcs, practical mindset and no desire to be the big damn hero™, and Moash's journey will just be a very long fall.

I felt this way, kind of a let down. I loved how in Oathbringer he was making everything worse with every decision he made, while still being a (pretty troublesome) human being. RoW just made him the personification of death. I still hope Brandon will do something interesting with him, everytime someone says "I hope Kaladin just kills him in a horrible way" I can only think that Odium reigns in the fandom, and it'd feel like pandering and out of place if it happened in the books.  

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On 12/5/2020 at 5:45 PM, Bigmikey357 said:

It looks like Jasnah is tackling the class struggles admirably IMO. I think Moash's thing is an illustration of just what it means to completely give yourself over to Odium,  what it looks like. For Moash the class struggle thing was a sham anyway,  a thin veneer for his desire for revenge. Was he meant to be nuanced?  I think so. And if he's somehow separated from Odium he'll be nuanced again,  just with a different set of issues. Brandon rarely lets cartoon cut out villains like what Vyre has become last this long. They either die (see Lezian) or they get some sort of reasoning behind their world view (Sadeas). The fact that Moash still lives tells me he's still got some narrative purposes,  he's still got stuff to do. 

Moash purpose is clear to me . It always has been . He is the Anti-Kaladin. He understands Kaladin stormblessed intimately . He is the only one who knows how to defeat Kaladin . You don’t fight Kaladin physically ! You attack him mentally thru his ideals . We have seen that physically Kaladin is a force of Wrath when provoked and the Fused really don’t want them problems . The Pursuer was an idiot . And arrogant . I think if El and Moash work together they can take out stormblessed by attacking those he loves

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1 hour ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Moash purpose is clear to me . It always has been . He is the Anti-Kaladin. He understands Kaladin stormblessed intimately . He is the only one who knows how to defeat Kaladin . You don’t fight Kaladin physically ! You attack him mentally thru his ideals . We have seen that physically Kaladin is a force of Wrath when provoked and the Fused really don’t want them problems . The Pursuer was an idiot . And arrogant . I think if El and Moash work together they can take out stormblessed by attacking those he loves

I'm not sure if attacking the people Kaladin loves would really work anymore. Moash tried it, it almost worked, but through intervention by Dalinar and contact with Tien, Kaladin was able to surpass himself and swear the fourth ideal, he can no accept that he can't save everyone and start to move on from his grief.

Kaladin has surpassed Moash, he's proved him wrong in that caring about others isn't futile and that giving up isn't the only choice, you can be better. Whatever Moash could throw at Kaladin, it would hurt him, but it won't end him anymore. Moash may understand Kaladin, but Vyre's world view is too warped to actually fight him. This is the main reason I question his role in the future, if Moash/Vyre can't fight Kaladin, then what is he supposed to do now?

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