Who is the best fighter of Dalinar?

[AlejandroTeodoro]

So we have this conversation at the end of Navalni and Dalinar where she implied that nobody of Odium can defeat Kaladin.

Then, Dalinar says that he is not his best fighter, and neither his best assassin, only his best soldier. The best assassin we can suppose that is Szeth (although he was defeated by Kaladin and also I don’t think we can consider Szeth an assassin now). But moreover, who does Dalinar think his best fighter is? Himself? Adolin?

For me it’s quite strange that statement since I everything that is showed to us is that Kaladin is by far the best fighter with/and without Stormlight. I don’t think that Dalinar, Adolin or Azeth would defeat Kaladin in a combat without Shardblades and without Stormlight. And also neither with Stormlight or Shardblades.

Moreover Odium seems to think the same about Kaladin since he appoint 10 times in the book that he is not possible to defeat in a fight (in the mouth of his minion Moash) and that’s why he try to mentally destroy Kaladin.

So, is there any explanation for these words of Dalinar? Is he overvaluing himself as a fighter? Is he just making a mistake?

The election of words is curious because he could have said that he is going to fight because not only fight skills will be important or something like that, but he clearly states that Kaladin is not his best fighter while all evidence is against. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by AlejandroTeodoro

[Kingsdaughter613]

Taln is the best fighter, at least on days when he can fight.

[AlejandroTeodoro]

4 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Taln is the best fighter, at least on days when he can fight.

Yes, I agree that Taln is the best fighter, but he is not “available” so I would limit the question to who is the best fighter of Dalinar within his “mortal/not mad” people.

[Kingsdaughter613]

7 minutes ago, AlejandroTeodoro said:

Yes, I agree that Taln is the best fighter, but he is not “available” so I would limit the question to who is the best fighter of Dalinar within his “mortal/not mad” people.

Depends on how Dalinar is thinking. He could also mean Zahel.

Per WoB, Kal wins fights on a battlefield. Off the battlefield he gives the win to the two characters who fight dirtiest: Vasher and Kel. (Which, admittedly, doesn’t bode well for Shallan.) Dalinar understands this. Vasher is around, so Zahel is a distinct possibility.

[Ramona Tehradin]

Kaladin Stormblessed is the best fighter. No doubt. We have already seen he moves like wind waaay before his powers started to manifest. In WoR, when he's fighting against two Shardbearers together, we read that he fought them with freaking closed eyes and added to that during battle of Thayleneh City, he was not only combating his depression but also battling multiple fused and a Yelig-nar laden all ten surges brewing Amaram and rose victorious (with Bridge Four's intervention in end). 

And in RoW, he freaking carried a scalpel as his weapon and even without half of his powers, not only he was strangely conscious when whole tower fell apart but also pulled off impossible missions (Die Hard, man). Plus IIRC, Stormfather did mention that Dalinar's power in tower will not work because of corruption but Kaladin's RL-FL did. And as the corruption progressed, healing might be difficult but his powers just improved!

I think Navani spoke to Dalinar after not only seeing Kaladin's one-man army feats but also having remembered Moash's words that 'No enemy can kill Kaladin Stormblessed' nearly ten times. 

He is the best fighter, yes he might not be their best killer because honor bounds him- and its not in his nature to go on murdering people. Also, as for being assassin thing, we already saw Kal having super spidery senses and with Syl as his guide, he can sneak in and do his bidding- hence I believe how Szeth and Kal would sneak Ishar out of Shinovar. 

I think there is to more Dalinar's implication since the book just ended and we have wait 3 years for next one to arrive. Nobody expected things to turn this way in RoW so I wouldn't be surprised in BS managed to pull off some twisted contest scheme and Kal ended up being Dalinar's champion after all. 

Oh, for the record...Kaladin is the only one who has deflected a freaking highstorm twice. So...you know your best. 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Ramona Tehradin

[Kvothe the Bloodless]

Honestly, I just want to see Wit/Hoid jump into an arena and take on Odium in a battle of Wits. That would be amazing.

[AlejandroTeodoro]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Depends on how Dalinar is thinking. He could also mean Zahel.

Per WoB, Kal wins fights on a battlefield. Off the battlefield he gives the win to the two characters who fight dirtiest: Vasher and Kel. (Which, admittedly, doesn’t bode well for Shallan.) Dalinar understands this. Vasher is around, so Zahel is a distinct possibility.

I knew that words of Brandon, but I am talking from the perspective of Dalinar, I don’t think he knows the real ability of Vasher and everything that he has seen imply that Kaladin is the best fighter. The question ir, who is better fighter than Kaladin for Dalinar and why?

1 hour ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

Kaladin Stormblessed is the best fighter. No doubt. We have already seen he moves like wind waaay before his powers started to manifest. In WoR, when he's fighting against two Shardbearers together, we read that he fought them with freaking closed eyes and added to that during battle of Thayleneh City, he was not only combating his depression but also battling multiple fused and a Yelig-nar laden all ten surges brewing Amaram and rose victorious (with Bridge Four's intervention in end). 

And in RoW, he freaking carried a scalpel as his weapon and even without half of his powers, not only he was strangely conscious when whole tower fell apart but also pulled off impossible missions (Die Hard, man). Plus IIRC, Stormfather did mention that Dalinar's power in tower will not work because of corruption but Kaladin's RL-FL did. And as the corruption progressed, healing might be difficult but his powers just improved!

I think Navani spoke to Dalinar after not only seeing Kaladin's one-man army feats but also having remembered Moash's words that 'No enemy can kill Kaladin Stormblessed' nearly ten times. 

He is the best fighter, yes he might not be their best killer because honor bounds him- and its not in his nature to go on murdering people. Also, as for being assassin thing, we already saw Kal having super spidery senses and with Syl as his guide, he can sneak in and do his bidding- hence I believe how Szeth and Kal would sneak Ishar out of Shinovar. 

I think there is to more Dalinar's implication since the book just ended and we have wait 3 years for next one to arrive. Nobody expected things to turn this way in RoW so I wouldn't be surprised in BS managed to pull off some twisted contest scheme and Kal ended up being Dalinar's champion after all. 

Oh, for the record...Kaladin is the only one who has deflected a freaking highstorm twice. So...you know your best. 

 

I totally agree that Kaladin is the best fighter by far. You forgot that Kaladin also defeated Szeth (who I consider crazy skilled also), defend alone the brigde for rescue Dalinar, kill the pursuer and 4 soldiers in seconds without powers...He do unbelievable things.

My question is, why Dalinar says that Kaladin is not his possible fighter?

7 minutes ago, Blood Of My Fathers said:

Honestly, I just want to see Wit/Hoid jump into an arena and take on Odium in a battle of Wits. That would be amazing.

LOL 

[Kingsdaughter613]

5 minutes ago, AlejandroTeodoro said:

I knew that words of Brandon, but I am talking from the perspective of Dalinar, I don’t think he knows the real ability of Vasher and everything that he has seen imply that Kaladin is the best fighter. The question ir, who is better fighter than Kaladin for Dalinar and why?

I totally agree that Kaladin is the best fighter by far. You forgot that Kaladin also defeated Szeth (who I consider crazy skilled also), defend alone the brigde for rescue Dalinar, kill the pursuer and 4 soldiers in seconds without powers...He do unbelievable things.

My question is, why Dalinar says that Kaladin is not his possible fighter?

LOL 

Zahel taught Kaladin and Adolin. I think Dalinar knows how capable he is.

[+Oltux72]

5 hours ago, AlejandroTeodoro said:

So, is there any explanation for these words of Dalinar? Is he overvaluing himself as a fighter? Is he just making a mistake?

He is expecting to die. Their champion may have to face the bearer of Yelig-Nar. With him or her having a week of training. And without Dalinar to open a perpendicularity.

You do not send a man into his death under these circumstances. "Do not ask a man to do what you are not willing to do yourself.".

[Master Silver]

I think Dalinar's point about Kaladin being the best Soldier is right. Dalinar considers himself the best murderer. Odium agrees with this. When Dalinar completely gives into the Blackthorn, everyone and everything dies. My only concern is he is not as young as he once was. He is approaching 50. Is the reaction time of a 50 year old with stormlight as fast as the same person but when he was 25? Dalinar says Adolin is likely a better duelist than he ever was, but not a better murderer. There is a reason why Kaladin was Odium's second choice. The Blackthorn does not lose. 

[DiePie]

5 hours ago, AlejandroTeodoro said:

So, is there any explanation for these words of Dalinar? Is he overvaluing himself as a fighter? Is he just making a mistake?

To me all signs seem to point that this won't be a traditional battle. In that very same section of the chapter Dalinar regrets not being able to prove to Mr. T that he was right... A little piece of dramatic irony in the fact that he still can... Though that seems to foreshadow that he will have to. Dalinar also seems to think that his powers as a Bondsmith will be important, which is the main reason I think that this battle won't be fought in the traditional sense.

 

Going over this has really reminded me of the final fight in WoT, of Rand and the Dark One creating scenarios of the world upon their victories. So I think that the final battle in the next book will be incredibly similar, with Dalinar and Todd using their powers and ability to create connections to create visions of the world upon their rule (note that while Rayse had little to no concern for the people of Roshar, Todd was created, in part, as a response to the plea to do so). This "duel" will probably last a long time (even if only because of the affects high densities of investiture have on the surrounding area, once again similar to the final battle in WoT) and so I would expect it to last something like half the book.

Also like WoT, I do think that neither side is going to "win" in the sense that Rayse or Dalinar thought when they agreed to the duel. This is almost the exact same argument that made up the final battle in WoT and I think it will be resolved in a similar way, with it being decided that both the power of Honor and Odium are needed. And also (I theorize) with the acknowledgement that the wider Cosmere is worse off than Roshar, and so an agreement is made to "enlighten" the rest of the Cosmere.

And so after that what happens? Well we already know what happens when Honor and Odium are combined, we get the Rhythm of War. Rayse had already said that Roshar was going to be used to conquer the Cosmere, and Cultivation would not have let him cultivate such a martial spirit in the Rosharans if it did not serve her ends as well, and as Harmony said: 

Quote

And after this long, if Odium is still seeking to destroy, then it is because of the power.

 

[Ramona Tehradin]

4 hours ago, AlejandroTeodoro said:

 

I totally agree that Kaladin is the best fighter by far. You forgot that Kaladin also defeated Szeth (who I consider crazy skilled also), defend alone the brigde for rescue Dalinar, kill the pursuer and 4 soldiers in seconds without powers...He do unbelievable things.

I didn't forget. It was already mentioned so I prevented from repeating what was obvious. 

[Master Silver]

In terms of feats of strength, we should also look at what Dalinar did without Stormlight. Remember that bar fight where his friends tell him everyone lived... but some were crippled.  And for awhile he went toe to toe with Szeth, with just a blade. I think we underestimate Dalinar. And that was a Dalinar without stormlight. Dalinar with blade (assuming he can pull an Ishar and just bond Oathbringer), glory spren plate. And in peak shape. I think he just kills everyone. The white plate, could be how glory spren manifest, although I thought it would be gold. 

[425kid]

Just let Vasher unsheathe Nightblood

[Ailvara]

6 hours ago, Blood Of My Fathers said:

Honestly, I just want to see Wit/Hoid jump into an arena and take on Odium in a battle of Wits. That would be amazing.

After that epilogue... It's a scary idea.

[Mason Wheeler]

8 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Depends on how Dalinar is thinking. He could also mean Zahel.

Per WoB, Kal wins fights on a battlefield. Off the battlefield he gives the win to the two characters who fight dirtiest: Vasher and Kel. (Which, admittedly, doesn’t bode well for Shallan.) Dalinar understands this. Vasher is around, so Zahel is a distinct possibility.

Does Dalinar (or anyone other than Kaladin and possibly Hoid) actually know enough about Zahel to suspect he'd be a good candidate, though?

[Kvothe the Bloodless]

42 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

After that epilogue... It's a scary idea.

True, true

[Kingsdaughter613]

9 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

Does Dalinar (or anyone other than Kaladin and possibly Hoid) actually know enough about Zahel to suspect he'd be a good candidate, though?

He’s lived there a long time and he’s taught Adolin and Kaladin. I doubt Dalinar considers him a good candidate for champion, but he probably does consider him a great fighter.