Is Voidlight Odium's Investiture?

[megafox]

When Navani is performing her experiment on the three types of light she sees that there is an expanded color in each one as compared to normal light. Stormlight is blue, which is Honor's color, Lifelight it is green for Cultivation's color, but for Voidlight it is violet. As far as I remember, Voidlight is the only instance where some of Odium's Investiture isn't Gold or Red, which strikes me as suspicious. I also don't know anything in the Cosmere which is associated with violet either.

I also can't seem to find any WOB which directly confirms that Voidlight is of Odium. Closest I have been able to find is this one:

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TheFoxQR

"Voidlight" (hasn't been named, I know) has been described as black with some violet to it. Is this because it's actually absorbing light-gold from all light hitting it?

Brandon Sanderson

I do call it Voidlight in the new book, so you can certainly call it that.

I'm more trying to describe the phenomenon of Stygian colors, which is how I imagine Voidlight. But your explanation probably has some plausible science to it as well.

General Reddit 2019 (Aug. 11, 2019)

Is this a thing, or am I seeing something imaginary?

[KandraAllomancer]

I don't think that the association between Shards and colors is perfect or consistent. Let's look at Scadrial for example: Preservation and Ruin's symbolic colors are white and black, and it's reflected in their mists but not godmetals. Rayse has it the other way around: Raysium had gold-white color, but his Light is "hyperviolet"

[Avery Elliot]

When Navani made the antivoidlight tone Odium's effect on Moash was pushed away. The same thing happened to fused & regals. I think that's enough proof that voidlight is Odium's.

[Honorless]

There is definitely something about the golden light that we see leaking from Odium, it doesn't appear to look like Voidlight, maybe... it's another form of his Investiture?

It's not just a vanity project from Rayse. The golden light (capitalized L?) leaks from him when he's at his most uncontrolled enraged mode not just when he's in control and trying to impress, though of course one can argue otherwise too with those situations, given they were all during Visions while he was trying to intimidate the other party.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Honorless

[Elegy]

Are there any instances of golden Odium light outside of visions? Because the golden light could have a different cause, just like light becomes red when corrupted. Maybe it's a special use of Investiture that would make it golden with any Shard. Because Voidlight is basically Odium's body in the form of light and I think it's hard to argue with that. Another thing that speaks for violet as Odium's color is the violet flame that Dalinar sees when Odium shows him his Intent in Oathbringer.

[Golstar]

Raysium is golden and his internal light is golden. I still hold to my hypothesis, that the investiture is golden when it's the "body" of Odium (ie god-metal or the shard itself) and stygian-violet when it's external. Voidlight can then be interpreted as the Divine Wrath, and Raysium+Odium-light is the Divine itself. The shard is (mostly) hatred, but not self-hatred. I think this contradictory intent causes the multiple colors.

Endowment isn't monochromatic, and I don't think there is a Cosmere fundamental law that Shards must have a single color. Scadrial is all about metal and mist, Roshar is all about light and tunes, Nalthis is all about breaths. These are all aspects of how investiture connects to the physical realm, but I think it's being slightly myopic to expect the conventions of Stormlight to govern all investiture. While there could very well be a "Shardlight" for each Shard, investiture manifesting in the Physical realm is the result of interplay between all three realms.

I see manifested investiture as sort of similar to the 3-dimensional projection of a 4-dimensional object. And note that this is not meant literally, but as metaphor: If we "rotate" the intent of a shard in 4D in a consistent manner for each shard and project it from spiritual to physical, we may get something which is similar in 3D shape but varies in color. However some shards could then be thought have multiple "configurations of intent" in 4D which yield the same shape but with different colors. Perhaps it's a poor metaphor - but my point is that the spiritual may be consistent and deterministic, while still being complex and not quite as predictable as 1-color-per-shard. Just like how observing the projection of a 4D object in 3D tells us something about the shape of the underlying object, but never the full picture. Or in 3D to 2D terms - the shadow of an object carries a lot of information, but depending on the angle can vary quite a lot. Maybe Honor is this very symmetrical intent that projects very consistently - while Odium is a weirdo that put bunny ears on other shards, so you think you're looking at a bunny, but it's just Honor and Odium's fingers. Sorry that sounds like more like Whimsy.

Back to the point: Colors aren't arbitrary, I am not arguing that Odium has multiple colors for no good reason. But I am arguing that constraining investiture to being a single type of light, gas and metal is too simplistic. Maybe Whimsy has 1000 different kinds of investiture with different tunes and colors. Preservation likes to manifest investiture as nice chunks of metallic matter. The intent of a shard affect how they manifest investiture, and also what pre-shattering investiture and magic "belongs" to a Shard. Surgebinding can convince matter to change into fire, which is pretty wild considering the differences on a physical level. Investiture can do pretty crazy things - it's the magic of creation after all, not just a different kind of energy.

Voidlight is definitely of Odium - we've been shown this in multiple ways. But does it come from Odium's perpendicularity? Is it modified Stormlight? Is it both? Is it something else entirely? We don't know. Can Shards share and/or co-opt investiture? Yes. Ruin acted through metals that were of Preservation if they were used as a Hemalurgic spike. Intent when creating the spike changed the investiture from being Preservation-aligned to being Ruin-aligned. So something like Iron on Scadrial is of Preservation until you go spike someone with and then suddenly Ruin can exert influence through the Iron (and the broken spirit-web).

Investiture all comes from the Spiritual Realm. It can carry the "spin" of a Shard, but we've seen that this can change. So until we get to a point where Brandon shows us Voidlight manifesting, all options are open.

So my answer would be: Yes, Voidlight is Odium's investiture, but it is not his only physical manifestation of investiture and it may or may not have originated as his investiture. The colors could be a hint as to these things.

[StanLemon]

When Dalinar was given a glimps of Odium's true nature, he described it as a violet fire. So violet is shown in visions of Odium as well.

[Raven Wilder]

I think Odium likes presenting himself as giving off or being surrounded by golden light; that's how he often constructs images of himself in Visions. When he seems to be leaking golden light, it's not because that's the natural color of his Investiture, but because he's not controlling the image as well as he wants to, so instead of a stately golden aura it becomes more of a golden blob of light.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Raven Wilder

[Golstar]

18 hours ago, Raven Wilder said:

I think Odium likes presenting himself as giving off or being surrounded by golden light; that's how he often constructs images of himself in Visions. When he seems to be leaking golden light, it's not because that's the natural color of his Investiture, but because he's not controlling the image as well as he wants to, so instead of a stately golden aura it becomes more of a golden blob of light.

His god metal is golden, though. So it's more than just pretense/illusion, and I don't think we have any reason to assume investiture has to have a natural color. Stormlight, voidlight, etc. are just one form of investiture. Shardblades and Shardplate are also pure investiture, and they have all kinds of colors.

But I think you have very good point about the impact of the Vessel/Shard 'self-control' on how the investiture manifests. Odium is a volatile shard, and it makes very good sense, that loss of control changes the manifestation, not just in color but in 'shape'.

It's also interesting that corrupted (non-sapient) spren gain weird stretched/spiky outlines. Perhaps the shard has some kind of inherent destabilizing effect on manifestations of investiture.

[Honorless]

19 hours ago, StanLemon said:

When Dalinar was given a glimps of Odium's true nature, he described it as a violet fire. So violet is shown in visions of Odium as well.

The flame wasn't just violet 

[StanLemon]

52 minutes ago, Honorless said:

The flame wasn't just violet 

I was simply pointing out that the color of Voidlight is represented in visions of him as well, not just the golden light

"You've seen me have you? Curious."

Odium smiled again.

Then everything went white. Dalinar found himself standing on a speck of nothingness that was the entire world, looking up at an eternal, all-embracing flame. It stretched in every direction, starting red, moving to orange, then changing to blazing white.

Then somehow, the flames seemed to burn into a deep blackness, violet and angry.

[Koloss17]

I think voidlight is currently odium’s, but I don’t think it was always his.

 

It is one of the three pure tones of Roshar, which means that likely, it was there since Roshar began and was inhabited by the shards. Cultivation and Honor inhabited the planet before Odium got there. So I’m willing to bet that voidlight was something else before Odium adopted it. Maybe even another shard’s...

 

[Gears]

27 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

It is one of the three pure tones of Roshar, which means that likely, it was there since Roshar began and was inhabited by the shards. Cultivation and Honor inhabited the planet before Odium got there. So I’m willing to bet that voidlight was something else before Odium adopted it. Maybe even another shard’s...

Didn't the Sibling say that there were originally only two pure tones of Roshar, and then something changed, which may or may not have been caused by Odium becoming a pure tone of Roshar? I don't have the book on me, so I can't quote directly, but I remember a dialogue along those lines. 

My pet theory is that Voidlight manifests as an inversion of Odium. Odium is pain, but it also takes pain. Gold is the taking of Passion. The metal captures souls. Kaladin's eyes glow golden red when he loses himself and his pain. Violet is the giving of Passion. When Vyre breathes it in, he regains Passion. Odium manifests as the violet flame in Dalinar's vision. I came up with this because purple is opposite yellow on the colour wheel, and then I remembered that this is Light, not colours, so my theory's origins are flawed. Theoretically, the opposite of yellow is blue in light mode. 

[Chinkoln]

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Questioner

Does each Shard have a favorite, or special, number or color?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say that there are inclinations but it's not, perhaps, as specific as you are thinking.

Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)

Quote

Thought

It seems that certain colors and numbers appear frequently in specific Cosmere books, like the number 5 in Warbreaker or red and blue in Elantris. Do these colors or numbers happen to refer to a specific Shard, and if so, would they be consistent across the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Certain colors and numbers are important in reference to certain Shards.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

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Argent (paraphrased)

Ruin and Preservation were often represented in the Mistborn trilogy in terms of black and white. Is this imagery limited to that series, or do other Shards also have an associated hue?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This (Ruin & Preservation's colors) was because of the specific world and their perception of the world and themselves. Essentially, because of the dynamics of the interplay between Ruin and Preservation, they "chose" to view themselves as black and white respectively, so that's how they were represented. Also, because the only two Shards on Scadrial, and their natures were opposites, after the long period of time they spent on the same planet, they kind of "polarized." If similar thing happened on another world, similar coloring effect could happen.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

 

 

[eissturm]

I believe that the Moons pre-date the Shattering, and that much of Adonalsium's Investiture was already attuned to the Intents of the Shards who were later drawn to the system.  Odium says at one point in Oathbringer that he was always part of the world.  I don't believe this was part of some grander plan of Adonalsium, but some later behavior of the Shards finding large pieces of themselves.

 

I believe that Voidlight is of Odium, however the Gold light is actually how Rayse wishes to see himself, as the God of Passion, not Hatred.  This is why we saw Kaladin's eyes glow gold, he was using Voidlight, but in a way compatible with his Oaths.  Righteous fury, an ideal of how Rayse wished himself and his power to be.  If only there was a way to CHANGE the Intent of a Shard...  Though I think our new Odium may not feel the same way about his power, and I fear we may have seen the last of golden voidlight.

Edited December 13, 2020 by eissturm
doubt > think. sentence/thought coherencey

[Honorless]

I had that thought then promptly forgot about it. Rhythm of War is just too much, lol

Could a Dawnshard be the source of the golden light?

[Golstar]

19 hours ago, eissturm said:

I believe that Voidlight is of Odium, however the Gold light is actually how Rayse wishes to see himself, as the God of Passion, not Hatred.  This is why we saw Kaladin's eyes glow gold, he was using Voidlight, but in a way compatible with his Oaths.  Righteous fury, an ideal of how Rayse wished himself and his power to be.  If only there was a way to CHANGE the Intent of a Shard...  Though I think our new Odium may not feel the same way about his power, and I fear we may have seen the last of golden voidlight.

I very much like this: Righteous fury. This makes the gold not regal and grandiose, but more akin to the gold associated with knights, paladins and righteous justice. Awesome.

I do think that it's not exclusively Rayse that caused this, but rather caused by an inherent duality of the Shard. The wrath of god carries a duality of supreme righteousness vs total despair (depending on the observer), and also hatred doesn't make sense without context. A Vessel who is biased towards only passion and righteousness (Rayse almost channels mercy when talking to Dalinar and Moash) is acting against the intent, but equally I think a Vessel that acts without motivation and simply becomes 'destruction' would also be punished by the Shard.

The justification for the Hatred doesn't have to be reasonable or fair - but wanton destruction is Ruin's intent, not Odium. So I could see a different Vessel having a different secondary color - an uncompromising zealot might dress himself in white for example, while a bitter husk of a great man might appear all black. What motivates the hatred of Taravangian? I'd say necessity. He destroys that which stands in his way, that which is broken and that which is weak. He is not righteous, not just, but something far more sinister. In his own mind he is not even pure, but deeply tainted. He would wear the gold for the image it projects - to give mortals an illusion of justice and righteousness. But I don't see him caring about this self-image for his own sake. In that way he is a much more dangerous Odium. Tempering the red-hot hatred with cold cynicism and fatalistic nihilism.

[Ixthos]

On 12/13/2020 at 0:59 AM, StanLemon said:

When Dalinar was given a glimps of Odium's true nature, he described it as a violet fire. So violet is shown in visions of Odium as well.

You beat me to it by ... a day and a half :-P