Kaladin’s yellowish-red eyes...

[Golstar]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Hmm... then what about Navani's experiments? Odium's Light produced a large band of violet when passing through a prism, and his Light rings with his own pure tone

That doesn't preclude that the light was initially "tinted" differently. Towerlight and warlight was once something else. It is certainly of Odium now, but as it investiture manifested as light we have no way of knowing where it came from. I think most agree that Stormlight originates from Honor's Perpendicularity. We don't know where pure lifelight (if it even occurs "naturally") comes from, and we don't know where voidlight comes from. Maybe it originates from Odium's Perpendicularity (which we know nothing about yet), but there is no light associated with the Perpendicularities on Scadrial, so it's not a given that all perpendicularities generate investiture-light.

I guess what I'm saying is - Navani has discovered properties and methods of manipulation of specific manifestations of investiture. There is no guarantee that they all have the same origin or that all shards have a way to generate such light. Navani has quite possibly discovered a way to do this, but doesn't that lend credence to the idea that Odium can do something similar? He understands these things on a very fundamental and intuitive level. He think he could quite easily turn Stormlight into Voidlight. There may exist Hatelight which is golden and has a pure tone also of Odium (maybe even the same). I am not saying it does, just that investiture is complex, and we can't from what we've been shown so far deduce that it's as simple as one color per shard and one vibration per color.

And as we've seen golden yellow as Odium's color on several occasions, we just have to assume he could very well have more than one color, depending on the nature of the investiture. Perhaps different colors for different aspects. Gold for his body and violet for his "breath". That would actually suit his intent well I think - expressing the distinct nature of his 'wrath' from his permanent identity.

The deliverer of divine wrath is golden but the wrath itself is stygian?

Kaladin had yellow eyes as he was acting as an extension of Odium's intent and not merely empowered by Odium's voidlight?

[Honorless]

31 minutes ago, Golstar said:

Towerlight and warlight was once something else. It is certainly of Odium now, but as it investiture manifested as light we have no way of knowing where it came from.

Wait what? Towerlight was only produced by the Sibling, Raboniel theorized on its nature as a combination of two Lights. Warlight was only recently discovered by Navani and Raboniel. Towerlight was Corrupted by Voidlight but was flushed out of the system by Navani's Anti-Odium Rhythm device.

[Golstar]

14 hours ago, Honorless said:

Wait what? Towerlight was only produced by the Sibling, Raboniel theorized on its nature as a combination of two Lights. Warlight was only recently discovered by Navani and Raboniel. Towerlight was Corrupted by Voidlight but was flushed out of the system by Navani's Anti-Odium Rhythm device.

That was extremely poor wording on my part. I meant that Voidlight is certainly of Odium now, but we don't know whether the investiture making up the light started out as Voidlight. The reference to Towerlight and Warlight was to illustrate that light can be produced from other types of light.

Voidlight may be Stormlight or 'rawlight' that has been co-opted using the rhythm of Odium. When mortals can manipulate light with relatively simple technology, it would be expected that a Shard could easily manipulate it in a similar fashion.

That being said, I think the more likely explanation is simply that Odium has two colors: Gold for the aspect of the bringer of divine wrath and vessel of great passions, and stygian violet for the aspect of delivering said wrath and using hatred/passion as a power source.

Perhaps one could even take it as far as to say this also illustrates the split of how Rayse-Odium views himself as a majestic, passionate and grandiose being - but the rest of the Cosmere experiences his influence as destructive, violent and odious.
 

   

[Brgst13]

What is very interesting in this context, as well, is that the vision area Dalinar sees the stormfather's visions in, as well as where he Connected Kaladin, is described as gold.  I wonder if Odium adopted gold in order to fool people into thinking he was Honor, but his base color is that dark purple.  This is interesting as well in the context of Mistborn

Spoiler

When Miles Hundredlives discusses the "men of red and gold".  What if the Shard attacking Scadrial was not Autonomy, but Honor?

 

[Honorless]

@Golstar, good point on Odium possibly co-opting something natural on Roshar into Voidlight. Stormlight, in some form, predated Honor's arrival on Roshar so it could parallel that.

But A) Odium was called an interloper on Roshar, who apparently only recently integrated into the Shardworld, and

B ) Odium originally arrived on Ashyn and granted them Surgebinding, and finally,

C) Voidlight doesn't seem to play any ecological role on Roshar like Stormlight does

@Brgst13 I thought the golden colour was Rayse's vanity at first too: the clothing, ornaments, field of gold but Odium also leaked golden light while Rayse was at his most not-in-control, including leaking from his eyes, so the gold colour is integral too, in some way.

@Golstar, @MyrmidonOfAchilles, I think the violet colour is just as integral to Odium as the gold, his pure note and anti-note both produced violet Lights. Good point on violet being blue (Honor) + red (Corrupted Investiture) and yes, blue+red is how rainbows get their violet band but it's not just Voidlight but his pure Rhythm's Light (and both are one and the same, as far as Raboniel, Navani and the Sibling could tell) that was violet. The prism experiment supports it and then there are Roshar's moons, each glowing the colour of one of the resident Shards, no idea what's up with that but that seems to support violet as Odium's colour too.

That WoB you had posted does not talk about violet and gold, only gold and red, so I don't think it supported gold being Odium's real colour more than violet.

The final proposal of Odium having two colours seems likelier but also odd.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Honorless

[Rorzikel]

I'm starting to think that gold is Rayse's color and that stygian violet is the base shard's. So it was his real color because he chose it and it stuck around.

On the topic of the thread, this is what was said about Kal:

Quote

Kaladin Stormblessed looked up and let loose a howl that seemed to vibrate with a hundred discordant rhythms.

Voidlight is described as having a discordant rhythm but so does warlight... I think Kaladin attuned the tone and rhythm of Warlight.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 11/24/2020 at 11:33 AM, Ramona Tehradin said:

His whole remaining conscious since Tower corruption has not been explained properly. 

The Fused early on, when Raboniel proposes the invasion, pick out Knights of the Fourth Ideal as a danger because they can overcome the block, and have to get Jasnah and Dalinar out. Presumably, Kaladin was just close enough to the Ideal.

On 11/24/2020 at 10:12 AM, Leuthie said:

Black "light" (like the smoke from Nightblood) must be "unattached" Investiture (no Shard's Intent)

Not a thing. Investiture inherently has Intent.

Spoiler

Questioner

I asked if there was there a pure form of Investiture that is not tied to any Shard, and you said that my question had some false premises. Can you elaborate on what I had wrong there?

Brandon Sanderson

The false premise, the main one, is that other Investiture is not pure. Investiture, by its definition, comes from a certain place. That's like saying, "Is there water that doesn't have hydrogen in it? Is there pure water without hydrogen? Can you take the hydrogen out, and make purer water?" That's the problem there. This idea that Investiture is impure because it's tied to a Shard is a false premise. That is pure Investiture.

Questioner

Is there Investiture that is not related to any Shard, then?

Brandon Sanderson

There can't be, because the Shards were what the original... it's like saying, "I've got four pieces of a cookie. Are there any pieces that didn't come from the original cookie." You just said, "There's four pieces of this cookie." What you really wanna be saying is, "Is there non-Adonalsium-origin power like Investiture in the cosmere?" Is that what you're getting at? Or are you getting at, "Is there one of the Shards that is not held by a sapient entity?" Like, you could be asking so many questions from these things that I don't know how to answer what you're looking for. So, think about those, and ask me some of those questions next time.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

[Golstar]

23 minutes ago, Honorless said:

The final proposal of Odium having two colours seems likelier but also odd.

I don't think this is odd at all. Ruin has the color black, but Atium is silvery. The lines Allomancers see when burning Iron and Pewter are blue, but Preservation has the color white. 

It would be odd if the colors were seemingly arbitrary. But Gold for the divine being and Stygian Violet for the wrath/power of said being makes a lot of sense.

There is also this WoB, which has a much simpler explanation, which Brandon doesn't confirm, but he also doesn't really reject it either.

 

Quote

 

TheFoxQR

"Voidlight" (hasn't been named, I know) has been described as black with some violet to it. Is this because it's actually absorbing light-gold from all light hitting it?

Brandon Sanderson

I do call it Voidlight in the new book, so you can certainly call it that.

I'm more trying to describe the phenomenon of Stygian colors, which is how I imagine Voidlight. But your explanation probably has some plausible science to it as well.

General Reddit 2019 (Aug. 11, 2019)

 

 

[Dreamwa1ker]

58 minutes ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

Voidlight is described as having a discordant rhythm but so does warlight... I think Kaladin attuned the tone and rhythm of Warlight

I also am leaning a bit this way, that Kaladin is in that moment somehow being connected to and acting with both Odium and Honor. Leading up to it, Vyre says this to Lezian:

Quote

“Don’t touch him,” Moash said. “If you interfere, it will awaken him to vengeance.

Then of course Lezian ignores that, and the result is the moment with the yellow-red eyes. Could Honor + Odium = Vengeance: acting in justified righteous anger? That would fit with what Kaladin does to Lezian and also is a nice thematic fit with how Kaladin flipped the script on Lezian, taking his mantle of the Pursuer, and how Lezian's whole shtick has been vengeance (when i did a search on the book most of the instances of that word were his lines). And this Vyre line could be really on the nose when we come back later if there ends up being a Vengeance shard.

[Rorzikel]

3 minutes ago, Dreamwa1ker said:

I also am leaning a bit this way, that Kaladin is in that moment somehow being connected to and acting with both Odium and Honor. Leading up to it, Vyre says this to Lezian:

Then of course Lezian ignores that, and the result is the moment with the yellow-red eyes. Could Honor + Odium = Vengeance: acting in justified righteous anger? That would fit with what Kaladin does to Lezian and also is a nice thematic fit with how Kaladin flipped the script on Lezian, taking his mantle of the Pursuer, and how Lezian's whole shtick has been vengeance (when i did a search on the book most of the instances of that word were his lines). And this Vyre line could be really on the nose when we come back later if there ends up being a Vengeance shard.

Moash is really just the most genre savvy person in Stormlight. "Yep boys, classic case of protagonist syndrome, Kaladin has plot armor out the wazoo."

[Honorless]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:18 PM, Golstar said:

I don't think this is odd at all. Ruin has the color black, but Atium is silvery. The lines Allomancers see when burning Iron and Pewter are blue, but Preservation has the color white. 

It would be odd if the colors were seemingly arbitrary. But Gold for the divine being and Stygian Violet for the wrath/power of said being makes a lot of sense.

There is also this WoB, which has a much simpler explanation, which Brandon doesn't confirm, but he also doesn't really reject it either.

 

Spoiler

 

TheFoxQR

"Voidlight" (hasn't been named, I know) has been described as black with some violet to it. Is this because it's actually absorbing light-gold from all light hitting it?

Brandon Sanderson

I do call it Voidlight in the new book, so you can certainly call it that.

I'm more trying to describe the phenomenon of Stygian colors, which is how I imagine Voidlight. But your explanation probably has some plausible science to it as well.

General Reddit 2019 (Aug. 11, 2019)

 

 

Huh, the blue lines never really stood out to me, I just saw them as a function of the power... are the Connection lines that Dalinar sees also blue? I don't think their colour was ever mentioned. Edit: Dalinar describes them as "line(s) of light" or "white cord(s)"

I never really thought back to Atium's appearance as anything but simply metallic either, and we didn't get a description for Lerasium. Shardblades are also just described as looking metallic, at least the sharp part. Raysium being golden is interesting, also I can't really imagine a violet metal, mineral yes, metal nope...

I did kind of associate blue with Preservation and red with Ruin though... I remember associating the Scadrian System's gas giants with the Shards

Hmm... Trellium is definitely Corrupted and/or an alloyed Godmetal with those red spots. So Trell could just as well turn out to be Odium.

On 12/4/2020 at 10:14 PM, Dreamwa1ker said:

I also am leaning a bit this way, that Kaladin is in that moment somehow being connected to and acting with both Odium and Honor. Leading up to it, Vyre says this to Lezian:

Quote

“Don’t touch him,” Moash said. “If you interfere, it will awaken him to vengeance.

Then of course Lezian ignores that, and the result is the moment with the yellow-red eyes. Could Honor + Odium = Vengeance: acting in justified righteous anger? That would fit with what Kaladin does to Lezian and also is a nice thematic fit with how Kaladin flipped the script on Lezian, taking his mantle of the Pursuer, and how Lezian's whole shtick has been vengeance (when i did a search on the book most of the instances of that word were his lines). And this Vyre line could be really on the nose when we come back later if there ends up being a Vengeance shard.

I like this possibility, I don't know how plausible it is but yeah very thematically appropriate

Edited December 6, 2020 by Honorless

[Slatox]

On 12/3/2020 at 2:12 AM, StarSplit said:

I don't know if there's consensus on what El's title was, but my first thought was Stormblessed and I'm wondering, if we're looking into titles creating their own power of a sort, if Kal has a title that was formerly associated with a Fused, what does that mean for where he is able to draw power from? 

I think El's title was almost definitely voice of lights. Reasoning:

- That's the only title we see given by a singer a human.

- El is clearly fascinated by godlight, he appears to be the new fused evil mad investiture scientist bad guy.

- El was likely stripped of being able to hear the rhythms of Roshar and not restored until Todium came about because of how dangerous he was, he may have been close to discovering an anti-voidlight weapon that could kill the original Odium. It would explain why he had the title originally and why it was all stripped away. Original Odium was terrified of being damaged or made vulnerable to other shards.

[StarSplit]

Oh that makes sense, I like that answer! El as Voice of Lights. 

[stormlore]

I truly feel that most of what occurs with Kaladin is something special about him. They all assume he is just another windrunner, albiet the first, but he is more.  He has long been called the son of honor by the SF, and more specifically the son of Tanavast. His spren is ancient, powerful.

If Cultivation was a dragon, and her lover was Honor, then Honor may well have been one as well. 

Is Kaladin the son of a dragon in some roundabout way?

Dalinar does things a bondsmith shouldn't be able to, Kaladin does things a WR shouldn't be able to.

 

Dalinar may well be on his way to become the Shard Unity (All 3 shards together,) but Kaladin is on his way to being a King, a King over the orders of the KR.  Kaladin is truly walking the path of Noedon, 

The Way of Kings starts with Kal's narrative. Man who walking the way to be a king.

 

[Frustration]

On 12/2/2020 at 11:12 AM, StarSplit said:

I don't know if there's consensus on what El's title was, but my first thought was Stormblessed and I'm wondering, if we're looking into titles creating their own power of a sort, if Kal has a title that was formerly associated with a Fused, what does that mean for where he is able to draw power from? 

 

12 hours ago, Slatox said:

I think El's title was almost definitely voice of lights. Reasoning:

- That's the only title we see given by a singer a human.

- El is clearly fascinated by godlight, he appears to be the new fused evil mad investiture scientist bad guy.

- El was likely stripped of being able to hear the rhythms of Roshar and not restored until Todium came about because of how dangerous he was, he may have been close to discovering an anti-voidlight weapon that could kill the original Odium. It would explain why he had the title originally and why it was all stripped away. Original Odium was terrified of being damaged or made vulnerable to other shards.

 

El's original tittle was more likly Vyre.

[Clovermite]

Saw this in another thread:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/395/#e13074

 

Quote

Odium is a red-gold. Honor is a blue-white and Cultivation is green, obviously. So, those motifs stay, when you... when you see a red or a gold, it's a reddish gold sort of thing, either of those colors, it's going to be Odium.

 

I know others have already specified that the Yellowish Red glow means Odium, but I figured I'd add a WoB link that basically explicitly confirms it.

[Honorless]

Okay so this time actually about Kaladin's red-yellow eyes and not Odium's colours:

Odium has Invested and integrated with Roshar. There's plenty of other characters who are interacting with multiple Lights / Investitures: Renarin & Rlain: whose spren were originally closer to Cultivation than Honor, and have now been Corrupted by Sja-Anat with Odium's Investiture. Venli can use Voidlight to fuel Surgebinding. I think whatever happened with Kaladin was a natural effect of this integration, Odium becoming one of the pure notes of Roshar. Kaladin was able to access Odium's Investiture because Odium was trying to Connect with him via Vyre with their Visions.

[Kat]

Something I noticed on my reread of words of radiance is that Sigzil once talked about the whole tradition of 'eyes of red and blue' in marabethia? It was followed by kaladin imagining the 'morbid' image of red and blue eyes. There is no way it could be related but I still wonder if it is

[Morningtide]

BTW, El's original title was He Who Quiets, which translates to Vyre. There is a WOB somewhere about this. I think that Leshwi also mentions it to Venli in that chapter where they first meet Raboniel.

[Spike eye]

Okay so hear me out on this one. I was just reading “Alloy of Law” at the end of which Miles  Hundred Lives is executed. As he’s dying he manages to yell out at the crowd the following: “You are fools! One day, the men of gold and red, bearers of the final metal, will come to you. And you will be ruled by them. Worship. Worship Trell, and Waite” now it’s very clear that kaladin’s eyes glowed (yellow and red) is there perhaps a chance that whatever Trell is, a sentient power that has Harmony worried, might be working multiple angles. The men of red and gold might be Trell’s strange versions of the kandra at the end of “the bands of morning” maybe those are trells defying colors. What if it’s Influencing the Scadrial system with trellium and the Rosharan system with its own typ of light. Imagine a force/god that could adapt the way it’s investiture manifests to work in different systems. 

[JohnnyKaizen]

I know this is a very old post, so I don't know if anyone will even see it. But, that said, in Ch 38 of Way of Kings, when Teft first feeds Kaladin stormlight..Sanderson describes the stormlight coming off of Kaladin's skin as white. Then his eyes snap open, and they leak light too, with a "faint amber (yellow) cast."

So this issue with his eyes has been around from WoKs. And what about his eyes would cause the investiture leaking out of them to be yellow, but the investiture coming out of the rest of his body to be white?

[Honorless]

On 2/17/2023 at 2:35 AM, JohnnyKaizen said:

I know this is a very old post, so I don't know if anyone will even see it. But, that said, in Ch 38 of Way of Kings, when Teft first feeds Kaladin stormlight..Sanderson describes the stormlight coming off of Kaladin's skin as white. Then his eyes snap open, and they leak light too, with a "faint amber (yellow) cast."

So this issue with his eyes has been around from WoKs. And what about his eyes would cause the investiture leaking out of them to be yellow, but the investiture coming out of the rest of his body to be white?

Okay, good catch! Found the relevant section: 

Quote

Teft froze, eyes widening. Wisps of Light began to rise from Kaladin’s body. It was faint, but there was no mistaking that glowing white Stormlight streaming off his frame. It was as if Kaladin had been bathed in sudden heat, and his very skin steamed.
Kaladin’s eyes snapped open, and they leaked light too, faintly colored amber. He gasped again loudly, and the trailing wisps of light began to twist around the exposed cuts on his chest.

From chapter 38 Envisager, after Kaladin is tied outside during the Highstorm.

And in the chapters before... was that smiling face even actually the Stormfather? I'm no longer sure... there's a lot of weird things in the early Stormlight books

[Koloss17]

On 2/16/2023 at 4:05 PM, JohnnyKaizen said:

I know this is a very old post, so I don't know if anyone will even see it. But, that said, in Ch 38 of Way of Kings, when Teft first feeds Kaladin stormlight..Sanderson describes the stormlight coming off of Kaladin's skin as white. Then his eyes snap open, and they leak light too, with a "faint amber (yellow) cast."

So this issue with his eyes has been around from WoKs. And what about his eyes would cause the investiture leaking out of them to be yellow, but the investiture coming out of the rest of his body to be white?

Ya’know, generally I’m not wild about thread necromancy, but this has just spiced things up quiiite a bit. Thanks for the addition! 
 

Hmmmmmmmmm…what does this mean?

 

I mean, yellow is Odium’s color, and red is the color of corruption of investiture. So in RoW, I assumed Kal was giving into Odium, corrupting the bit of honor he had. But would that mean he was properly channeling Odium all the way back in TWOK?

Edited February 19, 2023 by Koloss17

[lacrossedeamon]

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Hmmmmmmmmm…what does this mean?

 

I mean, yellow is Odium’s color, and red is the color of corruption of investiture. So in RoW, I assumed Kal was giving into Odium, corrupting the bit of honor he had. But would that mean he was properly channeling Odium all the way back in TWOK?

Could the WoK instance be that because he's not fully sworn any oaths his eyes are only lightening a little from dark brown to amber but it is still just Stormlight while in RoW it is either War- or Voidlight?

[Koloss17]

12 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Could the WoK instance be that because he's not fully sworn any oaths his eyes are only lightening a little from dark brown to amber but it is still just Stormlight while in RoW it is either War- or Voidlight?

Ohhhhh that might make sense! I like that theory!