Saradas

Odium won't just let Szeth keep it.

48 posts in this topic

So now we know that Nightblood is big and bad enough to destroy a vessel. Now, while Szeth doesn't know that's what happened, Big T does know, and must be aware that NB is one of the only entities on Roshar of which he needs to be actively scared. He's also acutely aware of how dangerous Szeth is, both from a mental stability standpoint and a pure lethality sttandpoint.

With all that in mind, I can't imagine he's not going to make a play for NB - what if Dalinar chooses Szeth as his champion? Mr T can't take the risk of NB being in play and must be formulating a plan to rid Szeth of the sword. 

 

Now imagine that OdiVargo's champion is wielding Nightblood. We've seen it straight up Annihilate heavily invested entities and chip an honorblade. Scary stuff. 

 

Thoughts?

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My biggest thought on the subject is, what exactly are Honorblades made of, that a direct strike from Nightblood, which is capable of slaying a Vessel, only leaves it slightly chipped?!?

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Maybe you should change the title so it isn't a spoiler - I could see this from the front page and it kind of gives away the twist.

He might want Nightblood away from the good guys, but so far it seems Nightblood's effectiveness against a shard depends on the shard being too close to the blade. If Odium does take the blade, does he have a use for it, or would he rather leave the blade alone and out there so no-one can think to true to use it on him, as only Odium and Nightblood know what happened.

 

... unless ... could Nightblood tell someone what happened?

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9 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

My biggest thought on the subject is, what exactly are Honorblades made of, that a direct strike from Nightblood, which is capable of slaying a Vessel, only leaves it slightly chipped?!?

I was under the impression that Honorblades were created directly from Honor itself.  NB can kill a vessel, but the power of a Shard is infinite. 
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Honorblades could just as easily kill a vessel with a well placed strike.  

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2 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

... unless ... could Nightblood tell someone what happened?

"I destroyed a really big evil!"

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1 minute ago, Ixthos said:

Maybe you should change the title so it isn't a spoiler - I could see this from the front page and it kind of gives away the twist.

He might want Nightblood away from the good guys, but so far it seems Nightblood's effectiveness against a shard depends on the shard being too close to the blade. If Odium does take the blade, does he have a use for it, or would he rather leave the blade alone and out there so no-one can think to true to use it on him, as only Odium and Nightblood know what happened.

 

... unless ... could Nightblood tell someone what happened?

NB usually doesn’t remember what happened after he destroys stuff.  
 

Renarin knows what happened.  I’m sure of it.  

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1 minute ago, Ixthos said:

 

... unless ... could Nightblood tell someone what happened?

Oooo that's an interesting question. In the past, NB has seemed almost drowsy after glutting on investiture. 

And it does seem to have a hazy memory after that "did you draw me? did we destroy evil?" I'm paraphrasing beacuse I'm dodging work but don't have instant access to Warbreaker, but I'm sure it often struggles to remember what happened after a big intake of investiture.

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5 minutes ago, ShalladinForever said:

I was under the impression that Honorblades were created directly from Honor itself.  NB can kill a vessel, but the power of a Shard is infinite. 
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Honorblades could just as easily kill a vessel with a well placed strike.  

I'm not sure - NB is renowned for straight up annihilating stuff. The honorblades, at least in the way that they cut, are similar to regular Shardblades. They sever, where NB destroys.

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Oh he'll definitely make a play for Nightblood.

But who knows, other Shards are mobilizing. Anti-Investiture is now a thing. One of the creators of Nightblood is here. (Maybe we'll get "Daybone" or something!)

And Odium as a Shard, is better not being helmed by a Vessel or left alone to develop a mind. The only options are to Splinter it or...  needs to be combined with another Intent and contextualized.

The next book is Szeth's. It's supposed to have an Oathbringer-like ending, iirc. The contest of champions is not done yet. Then the Back 5. There will be a reprieve.

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4 minutes ago, Honorless said:

But who knows, other Shards are mobilizing. Anti-Investiture is now a thing. One of the creators of Nightblood is here. (Maybe we'll get "Daybone" or something!)

And the sword to keep them both in line, Twilightflesh!

 

4 minutes ago, Honorless said:

And Odium as a Shard, is better not being helmed by a Vessel or left alone to develop a mind. The only options are to Splinter it or...  needs to be combined with another Intent and contextualized.

I've been convinced for a while now, the only complete answer is to combine the shards and share them between ten people, each representing a part of them, and working together to maintain balance.

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3 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

And the sword to keep them both in line, Twilightflesh!

 

I've been convinced for a while now, the only complete answer is to combine the shards and share them between ten people, each representing a part of them, and working together to maintain balance.

Oathpact 2: Bigger than the prequel!

Edited by Honorless
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12 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

And the sword to keep them both in line, Twilightflesh!

 

I've been convinced for a while now, the only complete answer is to combine the shards and share them between ten people, each representing a part of them, and working together to maintain balance.

From a balance perspective this makes sense, but I'm not sure all the current vessels would be on board with this plan.

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8 minutes ago, Saradas said:

From a balance perspective this makes sense, but I'm not sure all the current vessels would be on board with this plan.

Fair enough, though I am mainly talking about the Rosharan shards, and it looks like Cultivation is looking towards the future, Honour is dead, and Odium is the enemy so we're king of ignoring his opinion. Besides, he died once already ...

 

19 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Oathpact 2: Bigger than the prequel!

With an all new cast!

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1 minute ago, Ixthos said:

Fair enough, though I am mainly talking about the Rosharan shards, and it looks like Cultivation is looking towards the future, Honour is dead, and Odium is the enemy so we're king of ignoring his opinion. Besides, he died once already ...

 

That makes more sense! I should have guessed, as 10 is a very Rosharan number. 

 

This is cool - we know that their various forms of investiture are compatible (warlight, towerlight, ???light) so if we assume it's a question of harmonies, a three part harmony is harder than a two part but it's still very possible. 

 

As an aside, when I think of combining Cultivation + Odium all I can come up with is Expansionism, or notions along that theme. 

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3 hours ago, Saradas said:

Now imagine that OdiVargo's champion is wielding Nightblood. We've seen it straight up Annihilate heavily invested entities and chip an honorblade. Scary stuff.

On the bright side, Nightblood wouldn't leave anything left of Dalinar for Odium to Fuse!

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11 hours ago, Saradas said:

That makes more sense! I should have guessed, as 10 is a very Rosharan number. 

 

This is cool - we know that their various forms of investiture are compatible (warlight, towerlight, ???light) so if we assume it's a question of harmonies, a three part harmony is harder than a two part but it's still very possible. 

 

As an aside, when I think of combining Cultivation + Odium all I can come up with is Expansionism, or notions along that theme. 

Social Darwinism.

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15 hours ago, Saradas said:

what if Dalinar chooses Szeth as his champion?

Dalinar has already mentioned he'll be his own champion. 

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14 hours ago, Honorless said:

And Odium as a Shard, is better not being helmed by a Vessel or left alone to develop a mind. The only options are to Splinter it or...  needs to be combined with another Intent and contextualized.

The next book is Szeth's. It's supposed to have an Oathbringer-like ending, iirc. The contest of champions is not done yet. Then the Back 5. There will be a reprieve

I keep thinking combination is key, as foreshadowed by the entire Raboniel/Navani arc. Harmonies, as others have said. The issue is how fast will this happen. The champion battle is in 10 days, so I doubt we will get much more by way of radiant leveling up. But we have to get the whole Chasmfiend mystery resolved with the Singers, Szeth ha to cleanse Shinovar, Kaladin has to travel to Shadesmar to get Ishar, Dalinar has to warn the spren of what Ishar has been experimenting with, and, oh yeah, ghost bloods. So, a LOT needs resolving if book 5 is going to wrap up the major arcs in a satisfactory way. Some mysteries may be allowed to persist but I can’t imagine him concluding the arc without a satisfactory conclusion to our main 5’s journey. 
 

which brings me to nightblood. It’s supposed to play a critical role, hence Warbreaker as “prequel”, and now we see why. But NB’s journey can’t well be ended right now. Too many mysteries remaining.
like the fact that THE NIGHTWATCHER AND CULTIVATION HAD THE SWORD BEFORE NALE GOT IT. yet another one of Cultivation’s little seeds she’s planted? I think so. Szeth was supposed to have NB at that moment. So now what does Cultivation see. Because she’s doing the absolute most right now.

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5 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Dalinar has already mentioned he'll be his own champion. 

He's said that he intends to be, but that could very well change.

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9 hours ago, Bliev said:

I keep thinking combination is key, as foreshadowed by the entire Raboniel/Navani arc.

I dunno, a shard whose investiture is called Warlight doesn’t sound very pleasant. Honor and Odium look like they’d give you Vengeance or Judgement or something. A really big, really ticked off highspren at best. Odium and Cultivation outright terrifies me because the combination of passionate rage and the desire to shape and control the lives of mortals and the path of civilization seems like a recipe for a god of eugenics.

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1 hour ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

I dunno, a shard whose investiture is called Warlight doesn’t sound very pleasant. Honor and Odium look like they’d give you Vengeance or Judgement or something. A really big, really ticked off highspren at best. Odium and Cultivation outright terrifies me because the combination of passionate rage and the desire to shape and control the lives of mortals and the path of civilization seems like a recipe for a god of eugenics.

I keep thinking the same. Cultivation plus Odium equals Social Darwinism.

And Honor plus Odium equals Vengeance or War, most likely. Plus Cultivation equals Conquest...

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7 hours ago, Saradas said:

He's said that he intends to be, but that could very well change.

Another unspecified condition: when are the Champions supposed to be named? Is "naming" a champion binding, or can either Odium or Dalinar change their mind right up until the point the figurative bell rings? Do they have to be named or enter the fighting ring simultaneously?

Is there a ring? The specified location is "on top of Urithiru"; what exactly is up there?

What if Vargodium does what some are speculating he'll do, and names a child or infant as his champion, expecting Dalinar to be unable to bring himself to strike it down (the basis for the Death Rattle about a man holding a blade to a suckling child and everybody wishing him to let the knife drop)... But Dalinar, seeing his gambit, responds by also naming a baby as his own champion?

 

 

 

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Don't Forget Azure has her own NB, probably less potent and unbalanced, but also possibly created to combat NB itself. 

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17 hours ago, Bliev said:

Because she’s doing the absolute most right now.

I think Cultivation is done for.  Rayse said that she was hiding from him, but she presented herself to Taravangian right after he took up Odium.  I’m convinced that Taravangian will continue to hunt Shards, and he could easily blindside Cultivation and take her out right now.  

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3 minutes ago, ShalladinForever said:

I think Cultivation is done for.  Rayse said that she was hiding from him, but she presented herself to Taravangian right after he took up Odium.  I’m convinced that Taravangian will continue to hunt Shards, and he could easily blindside Cultivation and take her out right now.  

Cultivation is better than Honor at future sight, and it’s unclear how well Odium sees the future. So I doubt cultivation will be blindsided. I do agree that T will continue the plan, and may try to take out Cultivation, and even may succeed, but I’m doubtful that she’ll be unprepared for it.

 

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