Shallan’s ending for book 4

[Xerun]

So how does this work. I don’t really understand she states at the end that she broke the Oaths originally but that she still has two Shardblades. And that her powers continued to work. We know this as she manages to Soulcast at the end of Way of Kings but that she didn’t meet Pattern until Words of Radiance. She says Kalak said the nature of Deadeyes was odd. 
 

But this doesn’t add up with how we experienced Kaladin. We are told that Syl is essentially dead and he loses all his powers he can’t even draw in Stormlight.
 

So how did the end of Way of Kings work for Shallan to let her Soulcast. And Similarly how did Pattern know all her memories? The Shardblades are said to be distinctive to the Spren but Shallan identifies the Patternblade as what killed her mother. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Xerun

[Bremen]

51 minutes ago, Xerun said:

So how does this work. I don’t really understand she states at the end that she broke the Oaths originally but that she still has two Shardblades. And that her powers continued to work. We know this as she manages to Soulcast at the end of Way of Kings but that she didn’t meet Pattern until Words of Radiance. She says Kalak said the nature of Deadeyes was odd.
 

But this doesn’t add up with how we experienced Kaladin. We are told that Syl is essentially dead and he loses all his powers he can’t even draw in Stormlight.

She started bonding with Pattern when she soulcast in WoK. WoR was when he entered the physical realm. She had to say a truth to soulcast, whereas non were necessary to draw Pattern and let him enter the physical realm.

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So how did the end of Way of Kings work for Shallan to let her Soulcast. And Similarly how did Pattern know all her memories? The Shardblades are said to be distinctive to the Spren but Shallan identifies the Patternblade as what killed her mother. 

Pattern didn't know her memories, that's why he had to lie when she made up something about her childhood. And living shardblades take whatever form the wielder wants, it is not that odd that Shallan would have Pattern look just like the blade that she summoned previously.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Bremen

[Xerun]

4 minutes ago, Bremen said:

She started bonding with Pattern when she soulcast in WoK. WoR was when he entered the physical realm. She had to say a truth to soulcast, whereas non were necessary to draw Pattern and let him enter the physical realm.

Pattern didn't know her memories, that's why he had to lie when she made up something about her childhood. And living shardblades take whatever form the wielder wants, it is not that odd that Shallan would have Pattern look just like the blade that she summoned previously.

She was seeing Spren all around here and talked to him before she Soulcast. I feel like him responding to her 2nd Oath (I am a murderer) would count as having met though. Pattern says they first met on the ship. But I definitely feel like you would count that initial meeting. But I’m willing to forgive that one as him technically not being in the physical realm. 
 

as for the childhood, Pattern specifically picks out Shallan’s room in Urithiru because it looks very similar to the room she murdered her mother in. She then recreates the room using Lightweaving and states her mother’s soul is in the box and he corrects her saying it’s what killed her. He definitely knows specific details about what happened. 

[Subvisual Haze]

She also almost Lightweaves for Hoid when she encountered him in a flashback at a fair.  For currently unknown reasons, her bond to her original spren wasn't quite as dead as we would expect.

[kari-no-sugata]

I suspect the main reason is that young Shallan's bond to Testament was a lot stronger - at least level 3, possibly level 4. Kaladin and Syl were at level 2 at the time. There may be some other factors as well.

It would be interesting to get some clarification on what was going on during tWoK. Was Shallan talking to Testament there or one of the Cryptics hovering near her when she did her Soulcasting? I'd have to guess now that it was Testament.

Hopefully we get some clarification on this with some WoBs.

It would also be interesting to know if Shallan has gone up a level during RoW or not. Would also nice to get confirmation about whether the scene where young Shallan "kills" Testament happens before or after her mother's death - I presume it's after but the text doesn't make it clear.

[+Oltux72]

She was fleeing from her oaths, not outright rejecting them. That is they were bad, especially in consequences, not wrong.

[+Bliev]

2 hours ago, kari-no-sugata said:

I suspect the main reason is that young Shallan's bond to Testament was a lot stronger - at least level 3, possibly level 4. Kaladin and Syl were at level 2 at the time. There may be some other factors as well.

It would be interesting to get some clarification on what was going on during tWoK. Was Shallan talking to Testament there or one of the Cryptics hovering near her when she did her Soulcasting? I'd have to guess now that it was Testament.

Hopefully we get some clarification on this with some WoBs.

It would also be interesting to know if Shallan has gone up a level during RoW or not. Would also nice to get confirmation about whether the scene where young Shallan "kills" Testament happens before or after her mother's death - I presume it's after but the text doesn't make it clear.

Yes, I agree--Shallan was pretty far along in her truths as a child. In Chapter 93 in RoW:

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Such a blessed time, full of hope, and joy, and truths spoken easily with the solemnity and wonder of a child. That companion had been a true friend to an isolated child, a girl who suffered parents who constantly fought over her future.

That seems to imply (a) multiple truths (so at least level 3, but probably 4) and the ease at which they were spoken.  I definitely agree we need  some  more  WoBs about what was happening in WoK. Brandon noted in his newsletter that this chapter was the hardest to get right bc of continuity, so I'm sure he'll have more to say on it as time goes on. 

I thought she'd probably leveled up when Veil merged, which might be why Kelek was so lucid when she talked to him right after (i.e., the Heralds get more sane when they're around a Radiant who levels up/connects to the spiritual realm). I know smarter folks than I are speculating on this, but I think all of her in book progress so far has been with Pattern, but that her bond with Testament is frozen at where she broke her oaths. The reason that saying the new truths didn't repair her bond with Testament is because of her unique psychology: she had disassociated from Testament so wasn't reforging an old bond, and Intent, as we know, matters a lot. So I think she'll have to intentionally repair the bond to revive her completely.

 

[kari-no-sugata]

43 minutes ago, Bliev said:

That seems to imply (a) multiple truths (so at least level 3, but probably 4) and the ease at which they were spoken.  I definitely agree we need  some  more  WoBs about what was happening in WoK. Brandon noted in his newsletter that this chapter was the hardest to get right bc of continuity, so I'm sure he'll have more to say on it as time goes on. 

I thought she'd probably leveled up when Veil merged, which might be why Kelek was so lucid when she talked to him right after (i.e., the Heralds get more sane when they're around a Radiant who levels up/connects to the spiritual realm). I know smarter folks than I are speculating on this, but I think all of her in book progress so far has been with Pattern, but that her bond with Testament is frozen at where she broke her oaths. The reason that saying the new truths didn't repair her bond with Testament is because of her unique psychology: she had disassociated from Testament so wasn't reforging an old bond, and Intent, as we know, matters a lot. So I think she'll have to intentionally repair the bond to revive her completely.

Lightweavers also help others in their presence be closer to their ideal selves - there might be an influence there. Or maybe Kelek is just feeling more friendly due to recent events.

With regards to Shallan's levels / truths etc, I suspect that for any other Radiant order, having two spren bonds wouldn't do much at all. After all, the particular oaths for each level are roughly the same so I suspect if you had two bonds to the same spren order then if you level up with one you'd level up with both. However, "truths" for Lightweavers are unique to each person. This in turn means you could level up with one spren by telling a truth to one but that wouldn't necessarily level up both spren, particularly in Shallan's case when one of her spren is a deadeye. So it's possible that Shallan (as of the end of RoW) has a level 5 bond with Pattern but a level 3 bond with Testament. I dunno if this makes any practical differences though - for example, is it possible that Shallan could get a compounding effect that other orders couldn't, even with two spren of the same order? Or does a compounding effect work for anyone with two spren bonds from the same order? Or are there no benefits except for two Blades? (Hmm, would two Blades also means two Plates?)

Random side thought: given that we still don't have all of Shallan's childhood info, I suspect it might be plot significant in book 5. For example, maybe the BAM gem is hidden somewhere on the Davar estate? Given that Kelek was there for when BAM was trapped, would he have any good ideas?