Orders of Radiants, Aspects of Honor and pairing up

3 posts in this topic

So, I'm I remember something similar to this from years ago when I was last here, but we have new information now.

The many aspects of Honour (and linked to it, Passion) are something the Orders of Radiants are meant to examine, I think. 


I also think they all pair up imo with internal Vs external loci for the same concepts

Windrunners - True justice based on morals (internal) not laws

Skybreakers - despite talking about Justice are all about the Law, "objective justice", external

Dustbringers - something about self-mastery apparently, need to know more.

Edgedancers - advocating for the voiceless, external affirmation, so Representation, which would make Dustbringers self-affirmation which kind of fits.

Truthwatchers - searching for external truth, Epistemology

Lightweavers - focussed on inner truths, Honesty 

Elsecallers - I think something to do with making decisions for the many, ethics of consequence, utilitarian as opposed to Windrunners and Skybreakers who are deontological

Willshapers - looking for freedom for others - hence I think Elsecallers will be looking for security for others, even at the cost of freedom

Stonewards - externalised Duty, following orders

Bondsmiths - Internalised Duty, leading others, Responsibility


But the Surges are also linked and paired to Odium, so are there aspects of Passion that should be considered for each Order too?


Any thoughts so far?


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Elsecallers' oaths are centered on reaching one's full potential and self-improvement, so maybe that's why they're internal, while Willshapers are focused on freedom of choice and expression for all, hence external. I can see how that would work, especially when thinking about this Coppermind quote:


Where the Windrunners were the protectors and the Stonewards the soldiers, the Willshapers were the liberators, both freeing those who were physically captive and aiding those who espoused new and radical ideas. They tasked themselves with building and supporting societies; they aided those who resisted tyranny and oppression. They were also literal builders -- in times of peace, they would use theirs powers to aid in constructing buildings and infrastructure, as well as training those who lived there; in times of war, they would fortify towns; and after the battle was over they, like their patron Herald, would travel to teach people of crafts such as bronzeworking or sanitation.

So inner freedom to reach one's potential (Elsecallers) vs. external freedom and helping others reach theirs (Willshapers)? The fact that both Orders were considered to be the most welcoming of the ten ties them together, too.  


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While I agree that most Radiant orders can be paired on the basis of internal/external focus, I think the orders of Radiants are expressions of both Honor and Cultivation. Honor can be seen in the oaths that Radiants swear and the deepening of Connenction between the Radiant and their spren. Cultivation can be seen in the way the oaths shape a person to become a better version of themselves. 

The Surges should be considered separately from the Knights Radiant in my opinion. The Surges are how the fundamental forces are perceived and are not part of Honor, Cultivation or Odium themselves. Surgebinding, the kind of magic the Knights Radiant use, is the manipulation of these fundamental forces, but it is not limited to the Knights Radiant, as it is used both by the Fused and the Ashynian humans (those who used Surgebinding to destroy Ashyn).

While I do not think the Passions are part of the Knights Radiants in the ancient era, I can see some hybridization happen in the future of Roshar, since both Odium and the humans have become a part of Roshar.  


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