Czernobog

Is the Davar family responsible for TWO deadeyes?

21 posts in this topic

Testament, yes definitely due to Shallan's broken oaths. What I hadn't considered until now, though, was that Soulcasters are the manifestation of spren in the physical realm, and...the Soulcaster in the Davar family's possession stopped working once Balat stabbed it during the fight with his father. This inspires many questions.

We know next to nothing about this, but are spren manifested in the physical realm as Soulcasters vulnerable to harm of a sort similar to broken oaths if their physical forms are damaged? Is the Davar Soulcaster's spren now a deadeye? Is restoration of the initial physical form of the Soulcaster sufficient to "heal" the spren (assuming they are even deadeyes or otherwise damaged if their physical form is damaged)?

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Back in TWoK (?) or maybe early WoR (?), Jasnah said that there was likely to be a way to fix the soulcaster, and she was going to have Navani do it when they reached her in the shattered plains. We don't know for sure, but it sounded like physical damage to soulcasters was fixable physically.

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I thought that soulcasting devices were fabrials imitating the surge, and not necessarily spren manifesting, unless I missed something

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4 minutes ago, ftl said:

Back in TWoK (?) or maybe early WoR (?), Jasnah said that there was likely to be a way to fix the soulcaster, and she was going to have Navani do it when they reached her in the shattered plains. We don't know for sure, but it sounded like physical damage to soulcasters was fixable physically.

At the time none of the "main characters" knew that soulcasters were actually dead spren. So maybe Jasnah was referring to the soulcaster version of adding a gemstone to a dead Blade? 

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I thought deadeyes were caused mainly because of the breaking of the bond with their radiant which seems a little different than soulcasting fabrials.

 

Plot twist: The original Davar  soul caster was not real either. Shallan was actually doing the soulcasting with her original spren! 

 

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I searched, and there was never explicit mention of the Davar Soulcaster being repaired, just Navani mentioning such damage was more common than you might think. 

My question is mostly: in what state is the spren of a Soulcaster with a damaged form in the physical realm? Are they similar to a deadeye? 

<facetiously>Much like the question of whether a noise is made when a tree falls in the forest if no one is around, how would one notice a sleeping spren having scratched-out eyes when their eyelids are closed?</facetiously>

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22 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I thought deadeyes were caused mainly because of the breaking of the bond with their radiant which seems a little different than soulcasting fabrials.

 

Plot twist: The original Davar  soul caster was not real either. Shallan was actually doing the soulcasting with her original spren! 

 

You get out of here with that mind bending stuff, I'm still recovering from Todd. 

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2 minutes ago, Kered said:

You get out of here with that mind bending stuff, I'm still recovering from Todd. 

I am still recovering from calling Odium Todd :D

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11 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I am still recovering from calling Odium Todd :D

Yeah, I have no idea why it entered my vocabulary as fast as it did. 

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2 hours ago, Czernobog said:

I searched, and there was never explicit mention of the Davar Soulcaster being repaired, just Navani mentioning such damage was more common than you might think. 

That is because Shallan lost it in the wreck of the wind's pleasure.  Nazh recovered it.

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4 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

Plot twist: The original Davar  soul caster was not real either. Shallan was actually doing the soulcasting with her original spren! 

 

Unless I'm misremembering, thats unlikely, as Shallan and her Brothers didn't even know about the soulcaster until it was broken and their father was dead.

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1 minute ago, Forest Nymphomaniac said:

Unless I'm misremembering, thats unlikely, as Shallan and her Brothers didn't even know about the soulcaster until it was broken and their father was dead.

Normally that would be enough evidence. Sadly this is Shallan we are talking about. She could totally have been soulcasting and then forgetting on the spot. 

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Just now, WhiteLeeopard said:

Normally that would be enough evidence. Sadly this is Shallan we are talking about. She could totally have been soulcasting and then forgetting on the spot. 

Interesting point. Best method we have to determine that for now is to try and plot out the timeline of Shallans past. I don't have physical books, but we'd have to see where in the timeline she broke her oath and see if it matches up with the time of the soulcaster breaking. IIRC, We know that the soulcaster was in use sometime after Shallan killed her mother, so it might be possible as she had apparently reached her third oath by that time..

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14 hours ago, Forest Nymphomaniac said:

Interesting point. Best method we have to determine that for now is to try and plot out the timeline of Shallans past. I don't have physical books, but we'd have to see where in the timeline she broke her oath and see if it matches up with the time of the soulcaster breaking. IIRC, We know that the soulcaster was in use sometime after Shallan killed her mother, so it might be possible as she had apparently reached her third oath by that time..

That was kind of a tongue in cheek comment by me. It would come down to when Shallan broke the bond with her first spren though. I cannot remember exactly how long it had been between when the soulcaster broke and when her and her brothers hatched the plan to steal Jasnah's but I would assume at least  a little time had past for the family to begin having their financial problems. I think this is all kinda far fetched but could it explain her father's fondness/protection of her when he was so vicious to everyone else in the family? 

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16 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

That was kind of a tongue in cheek comment by me. It would come down to when Shallan broke the bond with her first spren though. I cannot remember exactly how long it had been between when the soulcaster broke and when her and her brothers hatched the plan to steal Jasnah's but I would assume at least  a little time had past for the family to begin having their financial problems. I think this is all kinda far fetched but could it explain her father's fondness/protection of her when he was so vicious to everyone else in the family? 

With Shallan, nothing is far fetched. It could even turn out that her mom isn't dead and is a Herald and I wouldn't even be too surprised. I just turn off logic and disbelief with her. 

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14 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

With Shallan, nothing is far fetched. It could even turn out that her mom isn't dead and is a Herald and I wouldn't even be too surprised. I just turn off logic and disbelief with her. 

This is very true. I think it would be amusing if she spent all that time and effort to replace a fake soulcaster with a fake soulcaster. 

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1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

This is very true. I think it would be amusing if she spent all that time and effort to replace a fake soulcaster with a fake soulcaster. 

it would be definitively a shallan move for sure 

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Are soulcasters inkspren in particular?  I know there was a passing comment in this book that there are a numerically small number of Inkspren relative to other higher spren.  The relative shortage of Inkspren could be explained by many of them manifesting in the physical realm as soulcasters.

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I also wondered if the relative paucity of Inkspren is due to Soulcasters. The other possibility is that someone keeps accidentally knocking over the bottle (or is it jar?). 

Edited by Czernobog
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