Jasnah and Hoid

[Irishman]

I want to make a topic to discuss what turned out to be my absolutely favourite relationship this book. I got into this book fully expecting some sort of Kaladin ship, but not in a million years did I expect to see my two favourite characters paired together. I honestly don't know how I didn't see it back in WoR, but their personalities match each other perfectly. Hoid's nonchalance pairs extremely well with Jasnah's seriousness and I loved the scene where they shared together in part 5 where Jasnah feels truly invigorated by him. I think a lightweaver like Hoid is exactly what Jasnah needed in her life and his knowledge will be of help to her too. Everything about the two of them was so cathartic that I wanted to make a 17th shard account just to talk about it and read what others think about this new pair. Hell, maybe loving someone in Roshar will make Hoid be more tied to the land and help more?

[atarynnosaurus]

I was pleasantly surprised by this relationship, actually. I had been a big fan of Jasnah, eventually, being revealed as a lesbian somewhere down the line, and reacted to the chapter where Navani implied that Jasnah/Wit was a thing with a mixture of scepticism, incredulity, and mild disgust, to be completely frank and honest about it. 

Brandon won me over. Especially with chapter 99. Both of them put forward a very different face/front to the world, something Jasnah says they bonded over, and it was nice to see them both being more genuine and relaxed around one another. They clearly get a real kick out of spending time with one another, and they seem to be making each other happy at the moment, which is good. 

I get the impression they're still fairly early days in their relationship. There's definite companionship and closeness, but they're still at the 'this is new and exciting and there's lots of potential we're excited to explore' stage and not the 'we're in love/even falling in love with each other' stage. But it's promising, I would say. It caught me by surprise, to be honest, how much I approved. But they seem to be good for each other/work well together. And Jasnah is clearly going into this with her eyes wide open, which makes me more comfortable with it. She's one of the few characters in the cosmere with the sense, intelligence, and charisma to handle Hoid and anything he throws at them. 

Overall, I approve, and am cautiously excited to see more of them together in future books. 

[IcaroRibeiro]

I found refreshing to finally learn about Jasnah sexuality, not in the sense to know if she is straight, lesbian or whatever, but to know how she has the same physical urges that affect more mortals like us and how she deal with it

Looks like someone who just doesn't really care much about physical stimulation, and choose Hoid based only on his intellectual side. It was interesting however to learn that even if she doesn't care much, she isn't unaware about his physical appearance and seems to appreciate his handsomeness despite of her lack of interest 

I wanted to see what Hoid think about their interactions, he must be happy to finally found a partner to share some of his plans and secrets, someone he can be himself, a partner for intimacy. Something I always found lacking about his writing is how much he wears his Wit mask, hence I found his way to talk to her really endearing, it's unfortunate we can't see more of them together

[Hayama]

I love it, sharing many of the same thoughts and feelings that OP does. Definitely one of the more pleasant surprises from the book. They are a perfect match.

[StanLemon]

That chapter was one of my favorites. It humanized both her and Hoid and it was representation for something that isn't as common in media.

[Nymeros]

.........eww.

[Gloomspren]

1 hour ago, Nymeros said:

.........eww.

LOL this made me laugh. I think my feelings are a little more complex than for or against at this point, i tend to resist when authors try and “partner up” their characters, in that not everyone needs to be in a relationship. That said, I actually REALLY liked their dynamic and how Brandon wrote her feelings towards him, really refreshing to not see someone who was completed by their partner. A little concerned about the lack of trust but that’s to be expected with an ancient being, but does make me think this isn’t long term (is any relationship long term for wit??)

[SymphonianBookworm]

I actually love this ship so much. I made a topic on it where I express my very strong views on them. They are perfect for each other.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

Personally I'm *really* not a fan of this pairing, and their dynamic kinda weirds me out lol. I think they work way better platonically than romantically

[AquaRegia]

As I've said in other topics (here and here), romantic relationships between mortals and immortals are loaded with both emotional and ethical issues; exploration of this theme is at least as old as Greek mythology (where, if I recall, it NEVER ends well for the mortal). I'm reminded of Heinlein's Time Enough for Love - his best work, IMO - in which Lazarus Long and his near-immortal kin refer to the rest of us as "mayflies" with whom serious relationships are strongly discouraged.  An immortal can be "friends" with a mayfly in the same way we are friends with dogs or cats... but romance is unwise and ultimately unfair to both parties.

My guess is that, while Hoid and Jasnah may indeed both be sincere in their appreciation and affection for each other, their different agendas and worldviews (and possibly the knowledge of their differing lifetimes) will ultimately result in this fling being a short one.  Brandon may just be laying the groundwork for a deliciously acrimonious and adversarial relationship between two powerful people who used to love one another, e.g. Obi-Wan and Anakin.

My speculation is that this ship, while fun now, is heading towards an ugly breakup, followed by an EPIC "evil ex" dynamic - two powerful, resourceful, and dangerous people who still care about other but are now bitter enemies, working at cross purposes.  Nothing would get Jasnah fired up more than Hoid betraying her trust and throwing all of Roshar under the bus... and he's already said he'd do exactly that.

[Little_Dagger]

I found their relationship very refreshing. It was new to see either of them to have personal aspirations as opposed to the ambitious goal of saving Roshar/Cosmere, which defines the two of them more than any other characters in the series. Both dedicate their lives to the greater good of humankind: Jasnah through her research and position of a queen and radiant, Wit - through his worldhopping and emotional and tactical support. They focus on tasks larger than life and focus on hem so completely, that the reader and people around them forget they are human. It was great to finally see them as such!

Moreover, I think their conversations add another layer of complexity to the plot. They know more about the Cosmere-wide events than anyone else (Ghostbloods excluded), and provide a different larger-picture prospective (eg. we have hints about the Sleepless and the Aharietiam from their comments).

Looking forward to seeing more of them together

[Frustration]

31 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

Moreover, I think their conversations add another layer of complexity to the plot. They know more about the Cosmere-wide events than anyone else (Ghostbloods excluded), and provide a different larger-picture prospective (eg. we have hints about the Sleepless and the Aharietiam from their comments).

Not quite Jasnah knows next to nothing outside of Roshar, and even the ghostbloods knowledge is laughable in comparison to Hoid. But Khriss know the most about the cosmere.

[Little_Dagger]

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Not quite Jasnah knows next to nothing outside of Roshar, and even the ghostbloods is laughable in to Hoid. But Khriss know the most about the cosmere.

You are right, of course, that Khriss is like a walking Cosmere encyclopedia, but she is not an active participants of the Stormlight events. Her involvement is limited to the observation and the recoding of history (and maps/sketches by Nazh), while Hoid frantically tries to direct the worlds in a certain direction. He reappears throughout the story to remind of the larger scale behind the scenes and nudge the characters just the right (though only known to him) way.

As for Jasnah's incompetence, no matter how little Hoid shares with her, it still makes her more knowledgable than other main characters. For example, he describes Rayse's personality to her, justifies the terms of the contract of contest of champions as well as admits to her that he had once refused the power of shards. It is unlikely he would have that kind of conversation with anyone else, and so I find it interesting to watch.