Mraize's true nature

[Elias]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:43 AM, Pathfinder said:

1. Wit revealed that there is a siah aimian among the ghostbloods

I think you mean Dysian Aimian. Siah Aimians are the ones like Axies the Collector.

[Pathfinder]

7 hours ago, Elias said:

I think you mean Dysian Aimian. Siah Aimians are the ones like Axies the Collector.

Yeah subvisualhaze already pointed that out. But thank you for bringing that to my attention. Later today when i have a chance i will update the posts and indicate the edit.

[Honorless]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:13 PM, Pathfinder said:

Ok, so here is the supporting observations that led me to come to this conclusion 

1. Wit revealed that there is a siah aimian among the ghostbloods

Dawnshard spoilers

  Hide contents

 

2. The siah aimians mentioned that there is one that has gone rogue

3. The siah aimian mentions that he has trouble imitating people and he is better than most which explains why even when disguised, mraize still comes off like mraize

4. The siah aimians take training from rysn who is "younger" to learn. So even if could be older than his babsk, he would still seek to learn from her and would explain constantly talking as a hunter from iyatle. He would feel that is how a human acts based on her.

5. The siah amian uses tattoos and scars to hide the seams between his cremlings as it is difficult to perfectly mimic a human. Everyone comments on how odd mraizes scars are and why doesn't he try to disguise them to better fit in. The reality he is using them to disguise him, but not in the way anyone expected.

 

 

I think that's everything off the top of my head.

You mixed up Siah and Dysian Aimians. The Sleepless are Dysian. And hey, be nice, they prefer the term "hordelings" over "cremlings"

Edited December 8, 2020 by Honorless

[Serack]

Hey, I just came across this WoB on the Sleepless that I find highly relevant to our discussion. (Bolding mine)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

The Sleepless are one of the very first fantastical races I developed, and they made an appearance in Stars' End (my second--very bad--novel, which never was published.) I migrated them to the Cosmere after I started designing it, as I wanted some truly alien species. I was interested in an entity that could have "generations" within its own swarm of beings, breeding to evolve parts of its body, and spreading consciousness across a large number of individual pieces. I'd seen a lot of hive minds, and some group minds, in science fiction--and wanted to play with something that was a hybrid between the two.

However, in order to properly integrate them into the Stormlight story, I decided to make them be able to imitate humans. (And through these efforts, they are slightly more humanoid in the way they perceive the world.) That made them able to play in the events of Roshar more directly.

There are plenty of swarms in the cosmere who are not connected to those on Roshar, however.

Dawnshard Annotations (Nov. 6, 2020)

The "generations" part could make some interesting wiggle room in the Peter Ahlstrom quote about Mraize being from Thaylenah in that it is possible that all current members of his swarm were spawned in Thaylenah.  

The second part I bolded adds to my points that sleepless as a race have done worldhopping before.  

I need to get ahold of and read the Dawnshard annotations and find more WoB on the novella as they seem particularly juicy.  

[HipsterStick]

On 11/23/2020 at 10:43 AM, Pathfinder said:

Ok, so here is the supporting observations that led me to come to this conclusion 

1. Wit revealed that there is a siah aimian among the ghostbloods

Dawnshard spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

 

2. The siah aimians mentioned that there is one that has gone rogue

3. The siah aimian mentions that he has trouble imitating people and he is better than most which explains why even when disguised, mraize still comes off like mraize

4. The siah aimians take training from rysn who is "younger" to learn. So even if could be older than his babsk, he would still seek to learn from her and would explain constantly talking as a hunter from iyatle. He would feel that is how a human acts based on her.

5. The siah amian uses tattoos and scars to hide the seams between his cremlings as it is difficult to perfectly mimic a human. Everyone comments on how odd mraizes scars are and why doesn't he try to disguise them to better fit in. The reality he is using them to disguise him, but not in the way anyone expected.

 

 

I think that's everything off the top of my head.

Hold the phone- isn’t the (Dawnshard spoilers)

Spoiler

Rogue Dysian Aimian mentioned in Dawnshard

Arclo? The one that Lift ran into in Edgedancer?

[Pathfinder]

13 minutes ago, HipsterStick said:

Hold the phone- isn’t the (Dawnshard spoilers)

  Hide contents

Rogue Dysian Aimian mentioned in Dawnshard

Arclo? The one that Lift ran into in Edgedancer?

Give me a bit to pull up the exact scene, but they specify they are not referring to him when they mention the rogue. 

[Flyingbooks]

12 minutes ago, HipsterStick said:

Hold the phone- isn’t the (Dawnshard spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Rogue Dysian Aimian mentioned in Dawnshard

Arclo? The one that Lift ran into in Edgedancer?

(mild Dawnshard spoilers)

Spoiler

There are four Sleepless swarms who aren't loyal to the First.

 

[HipsterStick]

8 minutes ago, Flyingbooks42 said:

(mild Dawnshard spoilers)

  Hide contents

There are four Sleepless swarms who aren't loyal to the First.

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, okay. Thanks!

[Pathfinder]

35 minutes ago, HipsterStick said:

Hold the phone- isn’t the (Dawnshard spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Rogue Dysian Aimian mentioned in Dawnshard

Arclo? The one that Lift ran into in Edgedancer?

So I will spoil it all as it is all referenced to the dawnshard but here we go:

 

Spoiler

 

"It was First, the oldest of the swarms on Roshar. Nikli was the Twenty-Fourth, youngest of them."

"Arclomedarian crosses us again. It meddles more and more. It has met with these new Radiants"

"Arclomedarian is dangerous. I can see this. But it is not as dangerous as the true traitors."

"At this point of conflict, the question was sent to all of the swarms - all twenty that still accepted the leadership of the First"

 

1. So what can we gather from this information? Since Nikli is the youngest of the swams on Roshar, and he is 24th, it is reasonable to conclude there is a total of 24 swarms on Roshar at that point in time

2. Of the assumed total of 24, only 20 still accept the leadership of the First. 

3. It is reasonable to conclude that if we take the 24 total, and minus the 20 we know accept the leadership of the First, that leaves us with 4

4. Arclomedarian is mentioned by name, and spoken of as separate from "the true traitors". 

5. If we then use that information to conclude Arclomedarian is not a member of the traitors and acts alone, then it is reasonable to conclude that the "true traitors" number 3

 

 

 

6. We know Arclomedarian is the one that met with Lift

7. We know from Hoid that a sleepless is a member of the ghostbloods. 

 

So that is why I concluded Arlco is not one of the rogues mentioned in Dawnshard

 

edit: OH OH OH! I just had a thought! I need to do some more digging, but I think Mraize is

Spoiler

Nikli's sire! Nikli mentioned how the hordlings that branched off to become him were already bred to impersonate humans, and that he further reached the point where he does not even need the tattoos to hide the seams in his skin. Which implies the previous generation does need to take some action to try and conceal the seams. Such as making them appear as scars perhaps? lol. Also further Nikli mentions about being betrayed by someone he trusted. Who would be more natural to trust than the very sire that you branched off of?

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Pathfinder

[Shuffel]

I just learned about this theory. An interesting thing to note is Mraize is 100% confident he should of seen Shallan enter Amaran's building to steel the maps.

 

How can anyone be 100% confident they didn't' make it in. Well have your own eyes (cremlings) watch every single window/door she could of entered.

 

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 12/10/2020 at 10:16 AM, Pathfinder said:

  Hide contents

 

"It was First, the oldest of the swarms on Roshar. Nikli was the Twenty-Fourth, youngest of them."

"Arclomedarian crosses us again. It meddles more and more. It has met with these new Radiants"

"Arclomedarian is dangerous. I can see this. But it is not as dangerous as the true traitors."

"At this point of conflict, the question was sent to all of the swarms - all twenty that still accepted the leadership of the First"

 

1. So what can we gather from this information? Since Nikli is the youngest of the swams on Roshar, and he is 24th, it is reasonable to conclude there is a total of 24 swarms on Roshar at that point in time

2. Of the assumed total of 24, only 20 still accept the leadership of the First. 

3. It is reasonable to conclude that if we take the 24 total, and minus the 20 we know accept the leadership of the First, that leaves us with 4

4. Arclomedarian is mentioned by name, and spoken of as separate from "the true traitors". 

5. If we then use that information to conclude Arclomedarian is not a member of the traitors and acts alone, then it is reasonable to conclude that the "true traitors" number 3

 

 

 

Spoiler

I believe that makes 3 rogues, because there is the 1st, then the 20 loyal to the first. However, great reasoning.

[ftl]

Definitely a fun theory! I'm on board with it.

[ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:01 AM, Serack said:

Aimians as a race did not originate on Roshar, and thus are already world hoppers in way.  

Good point

[stonehand]

On 11/23/2020 at 3:55 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

(Also, can a Sleepless use a blowgun?)

eh, if they can mimic human physiology well enough to talk, I'm sure they can just pucker their lips and blow some air real hard

[Yourfeatheryfreind]

Update: 

Quote

Questioner

Is Mraize a Sleepless?

Brandon Sanderson

Mraize is not a Sleepless, despite the scar. Sometimes it may be something I use to indicate someone is a Sleepless. It's an excellent question, but I can go ahead and let you know Mraize is not a Sleepless.

I'm glad somebody asked that, because I realize now if I ever give a scar to somebody they're like "oh that means Sleepless," but not always. Sometimes scars just mean you've been in a lot of fights.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)