What I loved and Hated about RoW

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

I don’t know about anyone else but I was extremely let down by Rhythm of War. I literally could not sleep for days before this book came out. I was so excited and while I can’t get every thing I wanted I expected more

    Things I hated:

1. We were promised a major cosmere scene: I do not know what you invisioned but I was expecting a major battle for Urithiru with investiture from several cosmere worlds being tossed around. After the awesome battle in Oathbringer for Thaylen city I just knew Rhythm would supersede this. I still don’t know what cosmere scene Brandon was referring unless it was Hoid confrontation with Odium during the epilogue !?!?

 

 

2. I Really wanted Adolin to do more with Maya , he is almost there? How convincing would it have been to the Honorspren if Adolin would have revived Maya. Boy it would of shut the honors pen up . As it stands I hate the honorspren more than I hated Sadeas. It just was a let down for a character I love

 

3.   Rock and Lopen my two favorite characters were no where to be found. It really ruined my bridge four vibe for this book

 

 

4. Venli flashbacks were not informative enough, as complicated as the singers were , I feel he just told us things we already knew, I was extremely bored during every Venli flashback. In Oathbringer every Dalinar flashback was gold. I didn’t know who the Blackthorn was but by the end I respected the hell out of Dalinar. I liked Venli going into this book , but besides freeing Rlain she literally did nothing the whole book IMO.I saw absolutely no willshaper powers or purpose for that matter .

 Things I loved....

 

1. Toadium . I absolutely loved this .... Hoid , Dalinar better watch out Rayse is out and old T is here. Teravangion will be an Antagonist that I would actually . I’ll make a thread later to discuss him

2. Navani bounding the sibling was right . It fealt good, I loved how she was able to outsmart the ancient Fused and iallyoded te sibling . For a while I thought it would be Rlzin

 

3. I love how pattern was redeemed . For a while I was disappointed in him but now I see Shallan is just as dangerous as I always figured she was. 
 

4. Lastly I loved how the singers are ruthless as they need to be, but in many ways they are more compassionate than the humans . When Navani and the lady of pain worked together look at what they accomplished. 
 

well another three years to wait for SA 5 so does anybody agree or disagree with my points?

[Woland]

I wasn't let down, but I have a few gripes. 

Mainly that, while Part 2 had an awesome climax, there was no real Sandervalanche at the end. Usually I cannot put down BS's books after the 70% mark; not this time.

Also, some storylines are developing very slowly compared to the rest. What's the purpose of convincing honospren if the war is supposed to end in 10 days? Renarin and Szeth are still a total mistery. What was the purpose of Dalinar's detour with Ishar? The Heralds are still basically useless. I also expected Adolin to revive Maya.

Above everything else, I wanted to see more Herald powers! It's a great underutilised source of awesome.

OTOH, I like Venli and the Navani/Raboniel stuff was great. We (maybe) finally shaked off most of Kal and Shallan's mental health issues. Moash got his comeuppance.

 

 

[IndigoAjah]

 

Hey! Pretty sure I also saw this on Facebook 

I agree with 3 and 4 of hated but TOTALLY disagree with 1 and 2
 

Rayse being NB'ed and dying and Mr T becoming Odium and confirmation that Cultivation was planning something like this is a HUGE Cosmere scene! Huge implications, as does the reveal that Kel is Thaidakar.

And I like the slow pace on Maya's recovery. It makes it a more realistic allegory for the neurodevelopmentally and cognitively injured, and long term the payoff will feel more meaningful, imo.

[LiftIRL]

I agree with you on some, less on other's, but. this isn't even about arguing for disagreeent sake: if you "saw absolutely no willshaper powers or purpose for that matter " in Venli's parts you might want to. Read again. we saw in her working the stones- a surge we have barely seen enough of before with Dalinar- something that even Khriss found important (stones and Connection).
We learned the basis of Willshaper ideals of freedom and how they need to go above personal freedom and into helping the freedom of others- even people on the Other Side, because it is Right (possibly indicating Willshaper spren are more honor aligned than cultivation), learned that the willshaper spren chose to align themselves in the war with the listeners as more than a one time thing, and even tho i agree the flashbacks were. P useless and Ill-fitting, especially compared to Sanderson's, i think that by combination with venli's sins AND with her current story arc and specifically willshaper ideals they give her character some meaning. She was bratty and selfish and she just saught attention and ego, and Timbre was definitely initially attracted to Eshonai, but she is learning to be better and defend a child in a cage.

[+Harrycrapper]

I agree and disagree with you here on a couple different points. I'm not sure if Brandon had a particular scene in mind for a "major cosmere scene." There are a couple of possibilities but I'm guessing Thaidakar being Kelsier is probably it. While a decent amount of us had Kelsier pegged as a candidate for it, it was still kind of crazy to get confirmation. Overall, this was the most cosmere we've ever gotten in a single book. Objects from White Sand and Elantris played key roles in the two major plotlines and we got the names of 3 previously unknown Shards in the epigraphs. That is much more cosmere than we've gotten in any book up to this point. Regardless, I think it's unwise to base your opinion of a book on your pre release expectations. It's one of the dangers of frequenting forums like this and getting hyped up for a book(or movies, TV shows, and games for that matter). If you build up a version of the story you expect to see and it doesn't happen, it results in what you're feeling here. Because the ending you built up in your head didn't occur, you feel disappointed. 

What I do agree on is that the Venli/Eshonai chapters were the weakest part of this book. Like you said, there was a lot of information we already knew or could piece together with what we knew. I think this is somewhat a result of Brandon moving around which character's flashbacks show up in which book. I think if we swapped this book's flashbacks with WoR it would have worked a lot better. Arriving at Shallan swearing her 4th Truth after her flashbacks would have been more fulfilling than detouring back to the Listeners throughout the second half of the book. And learning the recent history of the Listeners before most of them died in WoR would have been more narratively fulfilling. It just felt like we were going back to review a plot that had already ended 2 books ago and had very little insight left to glean from it. The scene with Nale was the only interesting one, though I did like getting some closure on Eshonai's last moments.  

[Kingsdaughter613]

53 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

 

Hey! Pretty sure I also saw this on Facebook 

I agree with 3 and 4 of hated but TOTALLY disagree with 1 and 2
 

Rayse being NB'ed and dying and Mr T becoming Odium and confirmation that Cultivation was planning something like this is a HUGE Cosmere scene! Huge implications, as does the reveal that Kel is Thaidakar.

And I like the slow pace on Maya's recovery. It makes it a more realistic allegory for the neurodevelopmentally and cognitively injured, and long term the payoff will feel more meaningful, imo.

This. My daughter has major cognitive delays due to brain damage and the Adolin-Maya scenes really resonated. They portrayed that relationship so well. I’m glad it’s not a quick fix for Maya, but slow and steady progress. RoW is my favorite SA book thanks to those scenes.

[IndigoAjah]

9 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

This. My daughter has major cognitive delays due to brain damage and the Adolin-Maya scenes really resonated. They portrayed that relationship so well. I’m glad it’s not a quick fix for Maya, but slow and steady progress. RoW is my favorite SA book thanks to those scenes.

That recovery is slow, and sometimes not steady but rather has its ups and downs and sacrifices and requires patience and love and nurturing is a KEY tenet of Stormlight Archive, and one that many readers seem to struggle with.

 

When people get frustrated at how Kal's recovery is slow and he takes huge steps backwards, I get it, but that's THE POINT. Sanderson is trying to make us frustrated because then we realise that people in real life get frustrated with people with mental health or development or emotional issues. We are meant to reflect on how we respond to these stories, and the same goes for Maya or Shallan or Szeth etc. 

 

There are no quick fixes and that's something that IS frustrating in real life, but if we cover this up and pretend in Fantasy that things are easy and won't get worse again, we encourage, when conscious or not, that perspective towards real life.

[IndigoAjah]

4 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

That recovery is slow, and sometimes not steady but rather has its ups and downs and sacrifices and requires patience and love and nurturing is a KEY tenet of Stormlight Archive, and one that many readers seem to struggle with.

 

When people get frustrated at how Kal's recovery is slow and he takes huge steps backwards, I get it, but that's THE POINT. Sanderson is trying to make us frustrated because then we realise that people in real life get frustrated with people with mental health or development or emotional issues. We are meant to reflect on how we respond to these stories, and the same goes for Maya or Shallan or Szeth etc. 

 

There are no quick fixes and that's something that IS frustrating in real life, but if we cover this up and pretend in Fantasy that things are easy and won't get worse again, we encourage, when conscious or not, that perspective towards real life.

Hell, I don't even know how much more blatant Sanderson could be over saying "Journey Over Destination"

[Eingradd]

I personally thought Part 1 was terrible. Like, enough that I was talking to myself in my car on the way home from work about the things I didn't like after reading at lunch. I adored Kaladin cosplaying as John McClane, and everything that happened with Adolin in Shadesmar. I was really disappointed that Szeth was barely in this book, but Book 5 is looking like it will be making up for that in spades.

 

I was more disappointed by Oathbringer. I've read it twice and, aside from Dalinar's flashbacks and the battle of Thaylen Field, there isn't much there that I like.

[WestTea]

I was actually quite surprised by how much I enjoyed the book. After part 1 I was a bit annoyed at the timeskip and the references to events in Aimia/the west. However, I thought this book did more for furthering cosmere knowledge than any previous book while still maintaining a good story.

I also think this had multiple major cosmere scenes:

Spoiler

1) Mr. T killing Rayse and taking up Odium's power.

2) Odium's interaction with Wit.

3) finding dead sprens in Ishars tent. Both the ability to make a cognitive species become physical as well as whatever goal they had with the bodies (hemalurgy?) could make this one of the most important discoveries in the cosmere, but too little is know right now.

4) All the developments with light. Killing a spren and a fused using anti-light is powerful. If other forms of investiture have light equivalents this knowledge is very valuable.

5) night blood hitting an honorblade and nightblood hitting a vessel. Everything with nightblood is terrifying on a cosmere level. Especially since he adsorbed a vessel worth of investiture making him one of the most heavily invested beings in the cosmere.

It sounds like your issue is that the ending wasn't as flashy as the battle of Thaylen Fields.

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

1 hour ago, WestTea said:

It sounds like your issue is that the ending wasn't as flashy as the battle of Thaylen Fields.

Not really . I reread part 5 and found a lot of things I missed and most of them I liked . Part 5 felt like Sanderson I loved . Part 1 was ok . But parts 2,3,and 4 were just long drawn out and boring. 
      Night has been the most invested object in the Cosmere per WoB . I agree with you on all your points . It’s just a matter of opinion I guess . Main thing I’m disappointed in is I wanted to hear the history of the singers and why the Spren left them long ago . The flashbacks should have dug in more like they did with Dalinar. That’s all I’m saying 

[kaellok]

11 hours ago, Eingradd said:

I personally thought Part 1 was terrible. Like, enough that I was talking to myself in my car on the way home from work about the things I didn't like after reading at lunch. I adored Kaladin cosplaying as John McClane, and everything that happened with Adolin in Shadesmar. I was really disappointed that Szeth was barely in this book, but Book 5 is looking like it will be making up for that in spades.

 

I was more disappointed by Oathbringer. I've read it twice and, aside from Dalinar's flashbacks and the battle of Thaylen Field, there isn't much there that I like.

Haha, I disagree with almost everything in your post  

I think Part 1 of RoW was the best--really tight narrative, it felt like it was laying out some solid groundwork for what would happen, introduced a lot of cool elements.  There was just so much, and it was tight and fit together.  And then everyone split off to the seven winds, all doing their own thing, to varying degrees of success.  I loved Kaladin as Therapist, but thought his John McClane was pretty meh.  Maybe I'll watch Die Hard before my re-read next year lol.  I did love pretty much everything Adolin; the dude just keeps getting more and more enjoyable to read every book.

We are, unfortunately, probably going to get more Szeth in Book 5.  The giant redeeming factor in that is that we should also get a lot more Nightblood.

I'm shocked again that people find Oathbringer disappointing in comparison to RoW.  We had Kaladin failing because he failed, instead of because he couldn't decide the difference between right and wrong, and that was great!  Shallan's pretending caught up to her, and she was forced to see other people pay the price for her pride.  It was a book full of moments of heroes failing, and that being okay because nobody can succeed all the time.  The important thing isn't never failing, it's not letting the failures keep you in place.  The most important step is the next one. 

RoW had a lot of cool plot moments, but it didn't have as many of the really strong and defining character moments that I'd come to expect from the SA books.  There were some good ones sprinkled throughout, like when Noril is talking to Lirin, or the Trial scene with Maya, and Venli reuniting with the Listeners at the end and Eshonai's farewell journey--but there wasn't a Kaladin turning back to the Tower, there wasn't a Chasm Scene, there wasn't an "I am Unity" moment.

I think that's pretty cool overall, though, because it shows that different people get different things from books, and we can enjoy them even if there's parts that are disappointing in some ways.  Like, I think RoW is easily my least favorite SA book, but it's still a solid 3.5+/5.

[LuckyJim]

I'm actually really glad the greater Cosmere elements were kind of restrained. I know a lot of people want more of this crossover stuff, but I like it more when Stormlight is able to be its own series, without required reading to actually understand what's going on all the time. I think at the point it is now, Brandon's pushing the limit a little bit on how much he can include without alienating other readers, and I hope it stays around this range for a little while more.

[TheHidelSubldies]

Moved the post to full book reactions thread, since it seems more appropriate there than to intrude here.

My apologies OP.

Edited November 26, 2020 by TheHidelSubldies

[Eingradd]

5 hours ago, kaellok said:

We are, unfortunately, probably going to get more Szeth in Book 5.

Heresy. We meet with pistols at dawn.

 

My favorite characters are Kaladin and Szeth, and I think a lot of my disappointment with RoW comes from not seeing them interact at all, which is what I was convinced would happen. Taking that a bit further with something I almost forget, I'm surprised that we didn't get to see Adolin telling everyone that he killed Sadeas. Kaladin and Shallan were told during the timeskip, and that really seems like something that was going to be a big point of contention between Adolin and Dalinar. I suspect they had that row in the timeskip, but I can't imagine Brandon would have anything truly important to the narrative and characters off screen.

[psc92]

On 11/22/2020 at 1:04 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

1. We were promised a major cosmere scene: I do not know what you invisioned but I was expecting a major battle for Urithiru with investiture from several cosmere worlds being tossed around. After the awesome battle in Oathbringer for Thaylen city I just knew Rhythm would supersede this. I still don’t know what cosmere scene Brandon was referring unless it was Hoid confrontation with Odium during the epilogue !?!?

This was never promised. What Brandon said was this: 

Quote

Book four finally gets to one of the foundational scenes I conceived from the beginning. In fact, it might be the very first big scene I imagined, and my favorite in the entire series. A part of me can’t believe people are finally going to be able to read it.

He confirmed in the Newsletter that he is talking about the sequence from chapter 105-110 which includes Kaladin swearing the 4th Ideal and Navani bonding the Sibling.

I don't have anything to comment on the other things you mentioned, but this one simply isn't valid.

[GameOfGroans]

I found myself in the same time appreciating and being frustrated by the same things.

All of the science and "technical" details are very long parts and while I was rather awed by Brandon inventing a whole new science for his book, some parts of it, especially in part 1, I'd prefer to be more condensed. Part 1 was especially stretched out. I did enjoy the interaction between Navani and Raboniel and what they discovered together.

Personally, as I'm not so interested in every detail about the cosmere and didn't read all the side stories and novellas, all those characters I'm not familiar with just jumping out of nowhere for a scene, so many characters just being mentioned and hinted at, was a bit too much - and in the same time I appreciate the sheer scope and complexity.

There were so many twists and turns and surprises that as much as I generally like books that don't follow conventions, I was starting to feel a bit drained by it all. Intellectually I enjoyed the unexpected, but emotionally not always.

As a psychologist, I appreciated the part when Kaladin takes over the mental health unit, and considering what state was Shallan in at the time, I thought she would end up in his group therapy and they would be able to help each other by sharing deep honesty. Them both finding their health within and independently was again intellectually satisfying, and probably for the best, but not so emotionally satisfying. 

I loved Adolin - Maya relationship and how the trial went, and the fact that, as it turns out, even spren can go against their own ideal. Which makes me wonder, if a spren betrays their own ideal, do they essentially commit suicide?