Bearer of all agonies

Adolin Alone

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So. . . Now everyone in Adolin family has bonded a spren. Everyone, but him. His *Parents* are bondsmiths, his brother is a (corrupted) Truthwatcher, and his wife is a lightweaver. (Who did I miss?). 
Honestly, I feel bad for him. Adolin would male an amazing Radiant. Everyone around him is becoming gods, and he’s left to sit and watch. I guess he can fight, but nowhere as near as Radiants can. I know that there are multiple theories on Adolin reawakening Maya, and bonding her. If this could actually happen, what order do you think he’d be in? Do you think Adolin will bond Maya? Do you feel bad for him?

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He would pretty clearly be an Edgedancer since Maya is a cultivation spren, and he’s reawakening her through listening and remembering her which is also in line with the Edgedancer oaths.

I don’t feel too bad since both Dalinar and Kaladin made it pretty clear he could be a Radiant if he wanted to, he’s just not willing to give up Maya for it. That shows it isn’t the most important thing to him even though it definitely stings some, and that dedication to her is probably what’s going to make him a Radiant eventually anyways.

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31 minutes ago, Kacman said:

He would pretty clearly be an Edgedancer since Maya is a cultivation spren, and he’s reawakening her through listening and remembering her which is also in line with the Edgedancer oaths.

I don’t feel too bad since both Dalinar and Kaladin made it pretty clear he could be a Radiant if he wanted to, he’s just not willing to give up Maya for it. That shows it isn’t the most important thing to him even though it definitely stings some, and that dedication to her is probably what’s going to make him a Radiant eventually anyways.

Not giving up on people is a pretty Edgedancer thing. I think he's probably going to revive Maya and become an "Edgedancer", but he will be different in some important ways from the Edgedancers who bonded spren in the normal ways.

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Well, given that his not-bond with Maya is basically the only reason they got the Honorspren on their side by the end of this book, him not being a radiant was worth it. A hundred new honorspren bonds is more important than one new Adolin bond.

And maybe Maya can be revived anyway, and then he'll be a Radiant anyway.

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14 hours ago, ftl said:

Well, given that his not-bond with Maya is basically the only reason they got the Honorspren on their side by the end of this book, him not being a radiant was worth it. A hundred new honorspren bonds is more important than one new Adolin bond.

And maybe Maya can be revived anyway, and then he'll be a Radiant anyway.

^Agree. The fact that he didn't "get rid" of Maya is a major plot point that ultimately caused the Honorspren to at least consider siding with humans again.

That said, other than the obvious signs that Maya is slowly waking up, there was this little tidbit in a Vyre interlude:

“I saw Prince Adolin throw his Blade,” Vyre said. “Three months ago, on the battlefield in northern Jah Keved. He is no Radiant, yet his Blade responds to him as if he were one.…”
“Maybe it was just a lucky throw.”
Vyre threw his Blade again. It clanged uselessly off his target. He narrowed his eyes, then dismissed it into a puff of mist.
“No,” Vyre said. “He must be able to change the balance to allow for this maneuver. And it returned to him faster than ten heartbeats, even accounting for the accelerated pulse of battle.”

That to me says that he's able to change certain things about Maya in blade form somehow, no? And we already knew about the less than 10 heartbeats thing.

Edited by Seed
Typo/grammar
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I didn't think Adolin was Edgedancer material before RoW and I still don't see it. 

I am reasonably sure that Maya is waking up because Honor's power is coalescing in Dalinar - all the dead-eyes are becoming more aware - thats why they turn up at Lasting Integrity - Adolin isn't doing anything to *them*. Dead-eyes seem to have not existed prior to the Recreance so it seems reasonable that Honor's Death (which happens around the same time I understand) would have created the problem - Adolin takes Maya through the perpendicularity of Honor in OB and over the past year it is implied that Dalinar is opening the perpendicularity a lot - that will flood  Shadesmar with power. It is likely that this is what is awakening the deadeyes - Maya is just more ahead because Adolin took her through a perpendicularity. We know the spiritual realm can be wounded by the death of a Shard from the epigraphs in part 2 - Threnody being the specific example used - what if something similar is happening on Roshar but the humans aren't being affected, instead the spren are.

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I think the deadeyes are related to Ba-Ado-Mishram being imprisoned. Shallan and Adolin are going to go on a quest to find and free Ba-Ado-Mishram, which will allow them to truly reawaken the deadeyes, starting with Maya, who will complete her bond with Adolin.

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Honestly rhythm of war convinced me all the more of my theory regarding requiring a bondsmith to he involved to fully revive them. Its hinted in the book that ba ado mishram being bound might also have something to do with what happened to the spren when the oaths were broken. A bondsmith did that regarding connection. So i think it would take a bondsmith to fix it.

 

As to adolin i think rhythm of war cemented him as a stoneward. I think adolin got them to that point and the bondsmiths will "take them over the finish line" and then adolin will bond a peak spren. Storms just the scene with the tukari alone:

 

"Three men came at him, and Adolin stood firm. No. He would not be pushed around.

Never underestimate the strength of a soldier trained to stand fast."

 

""Never underestimate the simple intimidating force of a man who won’t back down."

 

"Adolin didn’t retreat a single step as he met the bodyguard, sidestepping his lunge. Never underestimate the worth of being willing to hold. Your. GROUND."

 

Edit: oh yeah and stonewards are known for championing hopeless causes. Didn't everyone keep telling adolin convincing the honorspren was a hopeless cause? To just turn back? That the trial was pointless? That it would only end up one way?

Edited by Pathfinder
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I think Adolin is going to be our hero of books 6-10 and the biggest reason that will be possible is because he's NOT a Radiant. I haven't worked through all the possibilities yet but Adolin is being set up for some big developments in this book and because of timelines, those moments wont come in book 5

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20 minutes ago, GriffinMaze said:

I think Adolin is going to be our hero of books 6-10 and the biggest reason that will be possible is because he's NOT a Radiant. I haven't worked through all the possibilities yet but Adolin is being set up for some big developments in this book and because of timelines, those moments wont come in book 5

Perhaps SA5 will see a Reverse Oathpact and "Final Recreance" that establishes Peace For All Time on Roshar by clearing the table of both Fused and Radiants in the wake of Dalinar's Championship Fight... But Adolin's strange bond to a not-quite-alive Maya will persist, and then be the seed to a new kind of Nahel Bond (Adolin Bond?) in SA 6-10 when Radiants are needed again after somebody figures out that Taravangian had played them all once again, this time as Odium.

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I've always liked the idea of Adolin becoming a Radiant and by now I'd almost be disappointed if it didn't happen tbh. "Token normal guy" isn't a trope I particularly enjoy.

I 100% can NOT see him ever bond a spren that isn't Maya. They already DO have a bond after all and I'd think it extremely OOC if he decided to take another spren. Not gonna happen. And Edgedancer fits him perfectly imo. (If only because their abilities basically make them figure skaters and Adolin would LOVE fancy figure skater costumes but uhm not the point)

Edited by Winds Alight
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As for myself, I’m firmly in the Adolin-should-not-be-a-radiant camp. To be honest, I was even a little bit annoyed when Navani bonded the Sibling (though she definitely earned it, so it’s a really minor complaint. Overall I’m happy with the bond, I just liked having more non-Radiants). I just like knowing and seeing people go through and overcome their problems without the supernatural nature of the nahel bond. Honestly, I feel like it makes Adolin more unique without the bond than he would be with it. But of course, that’s just me. Brandon may take it in a totally different direction, and I trust him to write a good character.

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1 hour ago, Winds Alight said:

I 100% can NOT see him ever bond a spren that isn't Maya. They already DO have a bond after all and I'd think it extremely OOC if he decided to take another spren. Not gonna happen. And Edgedancer fits him perfectly imo. (If only because their abilities basically make them figure skaters and Adolin would LOVE fancy figure skater costumes but uhm not the point)

I don't remember where I wrote this already, but I was thinking it'd be really cool if Notum wanted to bond Adolin. I mean, I have to think after his outburst at the trial ("Honor is not dead so long as he lives in the hearts of men!") he's going to be one of the honorspren going back with Adolin to find a Radiant, and he surely has great esteem for Adolin's honor already, in his returning to save him from the Tukari (especially when it becomes known based on Tezim's tent what was likely to have happened to him, had they succeeded in subduing him).

And then, the usual objection a spren has to their Knight holding a bond to a deadeye ("you must divest yourself of that abomination") ends up not applying because Maya isn't an abomination. She's just... A friend. But not rival or one who would interfere with their bond.

In fact, I theorized that The Moment that Adolin had with Maya - where he felt a surge of warmth as he passed strength to her, to be able to speak words at his trial - was a kind of reverse Nahel bond, where he was using his soul to patch the gaps in her essence as a deadeye. So a spren bonding Adolin may even have to take Maya along as part of the package.

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I am pretty sure after RoW that when Maya revives, she won't be a Cultivationspren anymore.

RoW was jammed full of references to spren changing because of their interaction with humans. If Maya revives it will be because Adolin invests her, rather than the other way around; much like how he "gives of himself" so she can speak. That's going to be a more significant change than any spren has ever gone through.

I don't have any idea what she will be, probably nothing that *is* currently, instead something new; sort of like Glyss, but "corrupted" by Adolin's investiture in her.

After RoW, I have a faint hope that she will express as a "swordspren", shaped by her long time as a "sword", Adolin's (super cute) sword fascination/collection, and her "resonance" with swords - ie: doing kata with Adolin.

 

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4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Honestly rhythm of war convinced me all the more of my theory regarding requiring a bondsmith to he involved to fully revive them. Its hinted in the book that ba ado mishram being bound might also have something to do with what happened to the spren when the oaths were broken. A bondsmith did that regarding connection. So i think it would take a bondsmith to fix it.

 

As to adolin i think rhythm of war cemented him as a stoneward. I think adolin got them to that point and the bondsmiths will "take them over the finish line" and then adolin will bond a peak spren. Storms just the scene with the tukari alone:

 

"Three men came at him, and Adolin stood firm. No. He would not be pushed around.

Never underestimate the strength of a soldier trained to stand fast."

 

""Never underestimate the simple intimidating force of a man who won’t back down."

 

"Adolin didn’t retreat a single step as he met the bodyguard, sidestepping his lunge. Never underestimate the worth of being willing to hold. Your. GROUND."

 

Edit: oh yeah and stonewards are known for championing hopeless causes. Didn't everyone keep telling adolin convincing the honorspren was a hopeless cause? To just turn back? That the trial was pointless? That it would only end up one way?

Absolutely, there were MASSIVE nods to Adolin-as-Stoneward in RoW.

There were also MASSIVE nods to Adolin-as-Willshaper.

There were also some pretty big nods to Adolin-as-Edgedancer. However, there were also some pretty big nods to Adolin-not-Edgedancer.

At this stage, I am pretty sure Brandon is trolling us with Adolin, and he will end up as something else completely. Possibly a novel combination of Surges, perhaps expressing one or more of the surges in a different way.

If I had to pick right now, I would say I see him landing somewhere between Stoneward and Willshaper, perhaps with the Surges of Tension and Transportation, in a novel combination. This would potentially encompass his pure tenacity and his more flighty elements.

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Quote

When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 530). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

So...

- Adolin has an excellent sense of fashion. This is played almost for laughs, and yet...

- Perhaps it's not a coincidence that he was the one that led the delegation to the honorspren, and ultimately the one that argued for their side.

- Adolin's likeability seems almost supernatural - almost like a resonance. 

I'm on the Edgedancer train, so to speak. Though I do think that ultimately his bond with Maya will have to be 'inverted' like Glys for the recovery to work (humans may be too much Odium to power the radiant spren otherwise).

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Adolin bonding Maya by the end of the series, or at the very least figuring out how to fully heal Deadeyes together with her, seems virtually inevitable after this book. I'm excited for it!

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8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Honestly rhythm of war convinced me all the more of my theory regarding requiring a bondsmith to he involved to fully revive them. Its hinted in the book that ba ado mishram being bound might also have something to do with what happened to the spren when the oaths were broken

I don't think that it's a 'hint'.  Kalak, in a moment of channeling who he used to be, flat-out confirms this.  Granted, anything the Heralds say should be looked at with suspicion, I think that this is more solid than 'hint' usually implies.

6 hours ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

As for myself, I’m firmly in the Adolin-should-not-be-a-radiant camp. To be honest, I was even a little bit annoyed when Navani bonded the Sibling (though she definitely earned it, so it’s a really minor complaint. Overall I’m happy with the bond, I just liked having more non-Radiants). I just like knowing and seeing people go through and overcome their problems without the supernatural nature of the nahel bond. Honestly, I feel like it makes Adolin more unique without the bond than he would be with it. But of course, that’s just me. Brandon may take it in a totally different direction, and I trust him to write a good character.

I do like there being an un-augmented human among the group of superhuman Radiants.  Adolin going 20v1 and not just surviving, but winning, was a little much for me; it was a great scene that would have been improved upon if he'd actually been gravely wounded and they had to rush to Honorbound Windbags and beg for Light to save him through Regrowth.  I was more scared for Adolin dying in that scene than I was for any of Kal's fights in RoW just because the risk of death seemed real at the time, while Kal was fighting Wile E. Coyote who literally never wins.

I don't like Navani bonding the Sibling long-term.  I think that it works well as a temporary arrangement in order to save their collective back-sides, but the bond should end.  Sibling: "I'm literally about to die, and Bonding you is literally my only chance to stay alive, but you won't stop imprisoning spren!" Navani: "Look, we can talk about that later."  She didn't say she'd stop, because she has no intention of doing so and that's something that the Sibling hates so much that they went to special effort to talk to her about it.  She sang to push back the Voidlight some, which is impressive and is something big, but that's the only thing that I can recall her doing that actually resulted in helping the Sibling in any way (some of what she did was honest attempts that backfired terribly, but I don't think that the Sibling would necessarily see it that way since they like, specifically said they didn't).

It would be neat seeing the effects of someone who was Radiant for a time being able to step away from that, and what that means for them and for others around them.  Although, it might be too late after swearing the First Ideal; I can't remember now where Kaladin was when Syl told him that there was something happening between the two of them, and they could stop it.

Edited by kaellok
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12 minutes ago, kaellok said:

I don't think that it's a 'hint'.  Kalak, in a moment of channeling who he used to be, flat-out confirms this.  Granted, anything the Heralds say should be looked at with suspicion, I think that this is more solid than 'hint' usually implies.

I do like there being an un-augmented human among the group of superhuman Radiants.  Adolin going 20v1 and not just surviving, but winning, was a little much for me; it was a great scene that would have been improved upon if he'd actually been gravely wounded and they had to rush to Honorbound Windbags and beg for Light to save him through Regrowth.  I was more scared for Adolin dying in that scene than I was for any of Kal's fights in RoW just because the risk of death seemed real at the time, while Kal was fighting Wile E. Coyote who literally never wins.

I don't like Navani bonding the Sibling long-term.  I think that it works well as a temporary arrangement in order to save their collective back-sides, but the bond should end.  Sibling: "I'm literally about to die, and Bonding you is literally my only chance to stay alive, but you won't stop imprisoning spren!" Navani: "Look, we can talk about that later."  She didn't say she'd stop, because she has no intention of doing so and that's something that the Sibling hates so much that he went to special effort to talk to her about it.  She sang to push back the Voidlight some, which is impressive and is something big, but that's the only thing that I can recall her doing that actually resulted in helping the Sibling in any way (some of what she did was honest attempts that backfired terribly, but I don't think that the Sibling would necessarily see it that way since he like, specifically said he didn't).

It would be neat seeing the effects of someone who was Radiant for a time being able to step away from that, and what that means for them and for others around them.  Although, it might be too late after swearing the First Ideal; I can't remember now where Kaladin was when Syl told him that there was something happening between the two of them, and they could stop it.

Just to note: the sibling has no gender

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2 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Just to note: the sibling has no gender

Woops!  Thanks for letting me know.  Editing post now.

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13 hours ago, kaellok said:

Adolin going 20v1 and not just surviving, but winning, was a little much for me; it was a great scene that would have been improved upon if he'd actually been gravely wounded and they had to rush to Honorbound Windbags and beg for Light to save him through Regrowth.  I was more scared for Adolin dying in that scene than I was for any of Kal's fights in RoW

Well, they did get him healed afterwards. As was mentioned elsewhere in the book, more soldiers die from battlefield wounds than on the battlefield. And he didn't go it alone -- Maya and Gallant joined in and then the rest of team started catching up. If he actually beat all 20 that would have been a bit much, but an extremely experienced soldier + duelist  managing to barely hold out against poorly trained thugs wasn't too much of a stretch. He clearly would have died if the others had not arrived. With that said, he has some kind of bond with Maya and might be getting some additional benefits from it, much like Radiants do.

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The fight ended minutes before the others arrived. 

Quote

Together, it was too much for the men.  Adolin didn't win.

But the Tukari lost, running toward their supply dump and the safety of the numbers they'd left behind.  The leader finally joined them.

When Felt and the others arrived a few minutes later, they found a bloodied Adolin propping up Notum--dazed, but alive--surrounded by the corpses of what had once been overwhelming odds against him.

Rhythm of War, p.454 hardcover, Ch.35 "The Strength of a Soldier"

He started the engagement against 20, by himself.  An eternity later (so, maybe 30 seconds?) Maya and Gallant joined him.  Maybe we're supposed to believe that the Tukari involved in this had little to no training, and that's how Adolin was able to not die immediately?  It's so frustrating to me.  It should have been a great scene--hells, it was a great scene.  But then the aftermath, that he just had a few scrapes and bruises and that one spear thrust that nobody was worried about, cheapened all of that for me.  Show some urgency after, rushing to Lasting Integrity and begging for assistance from the Honorspren.  That's all it would have taken, because the idea itself of Adolin standing against them isn't so flawed, it's that he does that and can still walk for miles afterwards (even if he eventually ends up riding on Gallant).  Not to mention that the amazement of everyone wasn't that Adolin fought, or survived, but it's reserved exclusively for why people attacked the spren.

If Adolin is seeing benefit from the bond with Maya (which is fully possible, and we know that she is seeing benefit from it), then it's clearly acting in a way different than anything else we have seen on-screen and explicitly runs counter to the thoughts that Shallan had after they started heading to Lasting Integrity ('The Radiants with them, without Light, barely counted as soldiers at all').  I'd love to see this bond explored in the narrative, similar to how we've seen every other magic system explored at least somewhat on-screen before it starts being critical to the plot.

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19 hours ago, kaellok said:

I don't like Navani bonding the Sibling long-term.  I think that it works well as a temporary arrangement in order to save their collective back-sides, but the bond should end.  Sibling: "I'm literally about to die, and Bonding you is literally my only chance to stay alive, but you won't stop imprisoning spren!" Navani: "Look, we can talk about that later."  She didn't say she'd stop, because she has no intention of doing so and that's something that the Sibling hates so much that they went to special effort to talk to her about it.  She sang to push back the Voidlight some, which is impressive and is something big, but that's the only thing that I can recall her doing that actually resulted in helping the Sibling in any way (some of what she did was honest attempts that backfired terribly, but I don't think that the Sibling would necessarily see it that way since they like, specifically said they didn't).

 

I disagree on this. Dalinar and SF famously fight one another. It seems a defining feature of bonding a godspren--they're so darned independent. But I think that's what makes their relationship likely to grow--they will both be forced to grow in order to sustain it.

With that said, there's literally 10 days until the next book begins, so I sincerely doubt they will be able to fully explore that bond in any real way before the Big Showdown of Champions, unless Dalinar realizes that they can explore bondsmith powers together better than they can apart. 

Edit: or, rather, 10 days until the FINAL COUNTDOWN so the next book might start immediately for all we know. 

Edited by Bliev
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34 minutes ago, Bliev said:

I disagree on this. Dalinar and SF famously fight one another. It seems a defining feature of bonding a godspren--they're so darned independent. But I think that's what makes their relationship likely to grow--they will both be forced to grow in order to sustain it.

That's a great point, and one I had not considered at all!  We've definitely seen a positive evolution of the relationship between Dalinar and the Stormfather occur over the course of Oathbringer and Rhythm of War; it started off fairly rocky, and at times was more than strained, but they seem to have a pretty good working relationship in RoW. 

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3 hours ago, kaellok said:

If Adolin is seeing benefit from the bond with Maya (which is fully possible, and we know that she is seeing benefit from it), then it's clearly acting in a way different than anything else we have seen on-screen and explicitly runs counter to the thoughts that Shallan had after they started heading to Lasting Integrity 

I do not know that we have not seen it before or that it is different. Looking at the early Kaladin flashback chapters, he was getting benefits without knowing it. He speaks specifically with Syl on whether he ever was as good as he thought or it was her being around.  Adolin took on multiple opponents and then a shardbearer, without an actual bond yet.  I do not see how Adolin could not also have similar fights.  
He has always been an expert with the sword, dueling and at battle, add in that he had Maya at his back for most of the fight.  If he is getting a benefit, it may be more along the lines of having an edge in speed, agility. 

 

Edited by FollowYourMuse
clarification
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