rhythm of war Cultivation Possibilities

[Cheat Commando]

On 11/23/2020 at 3:01 PM, spitfireky said:

What I thought was interesting was the difference between Ambition/Devotion/Dominion's Splinterings and Honor's. Aren't the Shattering of Shards supposed to have extremely destructive effects on the planets/systems they're Invested in? Something about the Shard's power being too intense w/o a Vessel? The Evil on Threnody could be a result of Ambition's Investiture going haywire on the planet post-Splinter. The Dor is also supposed to be dangerous and volatile because it's the remnants of Devotion and Dominion's power trapped in the Cognitive Realm. So I think the difference between the events was that at the time of Honor's Splintering, Tanavast could've had most of the Shard's power in the Spiritual Realm. 

You got me thinking...

What if the Recreance was done as a stop-gap measure in preparation for Tanavast's death? By renouncing their oaths, the Knights and their spren rendered a large portion of Honor's Investiture inert, so that when Tanavast died, it didn't become dangerous like Ambition, Devotion, and Dominion?

Cultivation could've warned them; that, plus the  terrible effects of BAM's imprisonment together was what convinced the Radiants and their spren to reject their oaths.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Cheat Commando
Fixed typo

[spitfireky]

1 hour ago, Cheat Commando said:

You got me thinking...

What if the Recreance was done as a stop-gap measure in preparation for Tanavast's death? By renouncing their oaths, the Knights and their spren rendered a large portion of Honor's Investiture inert, so that when Tanavast died, it didn't become dangerous like Ambition, Devotion, and Dominion?

Cultivation could've warned them; that, plus the  terrible effects of BAM's imprisonment together was what convinced the Radiants and their spren to rejoice their oaths.

That's a really good idea! If it isn't in the Spiritual Realm, I wonder where all that inert Investiture is.

[Golstar]

1 hour ago, spitfireky said:

That's a really good idea! If it isn't in the Spiritual Realm, I wonder where all that inert Investiture is.

I don't think Investiture (outside of the Physical/Cognitive realms) is quantifiable in the same way that matter and energy is. I think Brandon explained at some point that Shards have essentially infinite power. It's a bit confusing how investing power and creating splinters will diminish the power of a Shard while the infinite bound also holds. But perhaps the point is that invested power is not limited - so once it's released it goes back to being "potential", but while it's out there it's bound and weakens the Shard through the connection.

So I would say it isn't really inert, it's just uninvested, and thus not really anywhere at all (it goes to the infinite pool, where it doesn't contribute as such, it was already infinite). I think Cheat Commando's theory is great - the Recreance quite possibly avoided a lot of nasty effects from Tanavast's death on the invested individuals, spren and bonds. The Stormfather was a splinter at that point (and thus couldn't avoid being invested) and didn't seem to have coped very well with Tanavast's death.

[Valigus]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:36 AM, TheTuninator said:

I personally am of the camp that Cultivation is likely playing a much subtler game here and is still in control. All we have to go on for her possibly making a bad bet on Taravangian is that she told him she wants him to use his shard "with honor", but not only is that very vague, that scene is from Taravangian's perspective. It's entirely possible that she might be deceiving or otherwise manipulating him even in that instant. This lady just fed into a woodchipper the guy who tore through four other Shards after some very intricate planning, and while we might all be scared of Taravangian, much of what made him scary came from Cultivation in the first place. It's possible that she let her own power get away from her in taking down Rayse, but on the other hand - maybe not!

I think cultivation is planning to create a person to replace wow every shard.

men we have

honor for dalinar

lift for cultivation

odium for taravangian 

im pretty sure she is in same way influencing almsot every single major character in the stormlight archive.

This is a post I made outlining who and I don’t wanna go all the way through it again

But one I’m almsot certain of is jasnah who references A childhood illness nobody remembers which seems like cultivation’s style.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Valigus

[Kurth]

While many are saying that Cultivation is "playing a much subtler game," or that she is setting up all these characters, it is a theory of my mind that the opposite is true. In fact, I think she is dying, or going to die in the near future, if not already.

You are seeing many of the promises that Cultivation made being broken. You have:

• Dalinar getting his memories back, and his trauma back
• Lift starting to grow and age normally again
• The possibility that Odium's Intent -- namely, his passion -- might break the status quo (or total lack of one) of Taravanigan's mind

Due to the shared religion that Brandon Sanderson and I have, it has been my belief that gods, and as a result, Shards, work by Covenants, or put in Cosmere terms, Oaths... It is likely built into them, by their Intent. A god, or Shard breaks their own Oaths, and they will cease to be God (excepting the presence and indestructible nature of their Investiture... Cosmere implications, they get Splintered, or a fate similar to Dominion's and Devotion's). After all, you see:

• Odium bound by his promise of the Contest of Champions
• The death of spren during the Recreance as the Knights Radiant broke their Oaths 
• The likelihood that the Recreance also Splintered Honor through the same breaking of Oaths, including the Oathpact, where the Heralds specifically disobeyed Honor.
• Preservation's resistance to choose anyone beside Vin.
• And above all, the weaponization of the Dawnshards against Adonalsium, Shattering him.

• Quote

  Quote

  Drat, can't remove or delete quotes... My mistake

• Spoiler

  Spoiler

   

  Ach, spoilers, too... My incompetence speaks miles, haha. that aside, we also have: 

• The Command/Intent factor of Investiture

• Notable for the importance of Command/Intent, a BioChromatic Entity's single-mindedness to obey the Awakener's command, i.e. Nightblood's Intent to "destroy evil"

• Also, Intent is important for the creation of Anti-Investiture, where just singing the inverted Tone of a Shard will not do.

• The existence of Dawnshards, created by Command and to fulfill the Command of Adonalsium.

There may likely be more examples, but I am getting ahead of myself. If Cultivation is not keeping her Oaths, then she is likely dead, or will die in the near future as a result. Of course, dead, referring to Splintered or similar.

 

On the other hand, it is a likely possibility and another theory of mine that the corruption of the Sibling has a part in Cultivation's death. Highly unlikely, as the Sibling is still alive and whole, and as a result, Cultivation, too. But I am just bouncing off ideas for the sake of using a sounding board. 

This is just a theory from a Cosmere fan not as well versed in the universe as you are, but thank you for listening and suffering me, and I would like to hear some theories!

[Heilven]

On 4/4/2023 at 1:34 AM, Kurth said:

You are seeing many of the promises that Cultivation made being broken. You have:

• Dalinar getting his memories back, and his trauma back
• Lift starting to grow and age normally again
• The possibility that Odium's Intent -- namely, his passion -- might break the status quo (or total lack of one) of Taravanigan's mind

At least in the case of Dalinar (I don't remember for lift) she is not breaking her promise. She told Dalinar he would get his memory back. The plan was for him to get the memories back so that he could grow and change. That wasn't breaking the promise, it was intentional.

[drunkenbotanist]

On 11/23/2020 at 7:01 AM, EvilIndian said:

While we have been extremely impressed by Cultivation’s planning in Oathbringer, I don’t think we can forget that she is a shard and is bound by her intent. Let’s not forget that while she may have a grand plan, and tried to help Roshar by preparing big T for Odium, her intent for growth may have manipulated her without knowing. Rayse-Odium has stagnated for so long in the cyclic nature of the conflict on Roshar, and her intent for growth may have driven her to replacing the Vessel, and might have made her overlook some of the dangerous  aspects of BigT-Odium. 
 

It seems to me that a growing theme in the Cosmere is the warping of the mind of immortal beings by their intents (see Vasher/Kaladin chapter in part 1, the heralds sickness and the Thaidakar reference by Mraize). I really hope Cultivation has a big brain plan for the greater good of Roshar, but I don’t think we can overlook her Intents interference in her machinations. Would love to hear you guys thoughts on this. 

It's explicit in the book that she sees the way she helped dalinar potentially could have made him a better tool for odium... But cultivates him anyways

[Telperion]

On 11/23/2020 at 5:05 AM, Saradas said:

I think this is what seems most likely. Rayse says about her to Dalinar that she cares only for growth - good or bad are of no interest to her. She was obviously opposed to Rayse, working to bring him down, but I think that's lead to the assumption that she's a 'good guy' when she's shown really very little indication of that.

I think that we just don't comprehend how alien Cultivation's thinking might be. She sounds like a true NUTERAL shard. As long as she can cultivate change and keep existing, that's most of what she cares about. The fact that she may have feelings for beings that bring about change and cultivation is one of the only things the sentient beings on Roshar have to win cultivation's favor.

[teknopathetic]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:54 PM, drunkenbotanist said:

It's explicit in the book that she sees the way she helped dalinar potentially could have made him a better tool for odium... But cultivates him anyways

I agree. She seems to think Dalinar was a huge risk, but she rolled the dice anyway. It would make sense that Mr.T would present risks as well. 

It would be interesting to know if Cultivation chose Mr.T specifically before his trip to the Nightwatcher or if Mr.T showed up one day and Cultivation decided to try and work with him as best she could. Is her plan the best of all possible plans or is she working opportunistically?

Edited April 28, 2023 by teknopathetic