Oltux72

What did Mraize trade?

31 posts in this topic

This scene has many implications, but let's center on one. What did he pay with?

  • It is valuable
  • It is rare
  • Raboniel recognised it
  • It is small enough to fit into a bag
  • It clincked

Based on who paid and what he soiled his pants with, I am going to say: aethers

What do you think?

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Wasn't it the sand from Taldain that Raboniel and Navani used in their experiments?

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5 hours ago, broccoli said:

Wasn't it the sand from Taldain that Raboniel and Navani used in their experiments?

I don't think it was sand since it clinked:

Quote

"Not that kind of riches," the man said, with as mile. He stepped forward and respectfully handed her a large pouch. Raboniel took it, and it made a soft clink. Raboniel undid the top , and stared inside. She sat there for a long moment, and when she next spoke, her voice was devoid of the rhythms. "How? Where did you get this?"

Because of the clinking, I think it was probably something metallic or glass. Straight-up money (coins, spheres) doesn't really seem sufficient, obviously. I also don't know if Raboniel's voice being devoid of the rhythms is relevant to some property of the payment or is just a result of her emotions.

I have a wild guess: atium? We now know that Thaidakar is probably Kelsier, so something Scadrian would make sense. In addition, atium is impossible to obtain by any methods we currently know of, yet there are stories and myths about finding it in Mistborn Era 2 that a lot of people take as foreshadowing that it'll appear again. The difficulty in obtaining it makes this seem less likely but we also know the payment couldn't be something easy to find either.

I don't know what use the Fused would have for atium though. They can't burn it. Perhaps it has some really interesting properties in fabrials?

There's also lerasium, which is just equally impossible to obtain and also probably more useful since it'll turn anybody Mistborn.

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12 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

I have a wild guess: atium?

I am not sure you can get that off world.  We know you can theoretically put the mists in gemstones.  Seems the same rules about moving spheres of mists off scadrail would apply meaning both lerasium and atium can't be transported easily.

12 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

What do you think?

I would add that we know it is invested as Raboniel is a soulcaster and could make almost literally anything else.  Taravansium would make a lot of sense. 

My wild guess.  Maybe Wildlight spheres?  We know not only that Raboniel recognizes it as valuable but that it has value to her.  Given what she is after currently Wildlight(Lifelight+Voidlight) makes a lot of sense.

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

I am not sure you can get that off world.  We know you can theoretically put the mists in gemstones.  Seems the same rules about moving spheres of mists off scadrail would apply meaning both lerasium and atium can't be transported easily.

I would add that we know it is invested as Raboniel is a soulcaster and could make almost literally anything else.  Taravansium would make a lot of sense. 

My wild guess.  Maybe Wildlight spheres?  We know not only that Raboniel recognizes it as valuable but that it has value to her.  Given what she is after currently Wildlight(Lifelight+Voidlight) makes a lot of sense.

Actually, Mraize has said that they kind of knew how to get Investiture to other worlds. (CSs still being an issue.) 

And Atium has massive implications for the Cosmere as it can steal any ability or power. It’s a bloodier version of unchained Bondsmith powers. Very useful for the Fused.

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Why not Raysium?

I don't remember the timeline exactly, but I assume it was before Raboniel gave the dagger to Navani.

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4 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Actually, Mraize has said that they kind of knew how to get Investiture to other worlds. (CSs still being an issue.) 

A fair point although to date we have not seen him accomplish this.  I assumed this meant he had the method but not the means although I could be wrong.  Either way the only known Atium is with Marsh and even he does not have that much.

45 minutes ago, Bremen said:

Why not Raysium?

Every heavenly one has a spear with a core of Raysium.

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On 22/11/2020 at 6:55 AM, Karger said:

A fair point although to date we have not seen him accomplish this.  I assumed this meant he had the method but not the means although I could be wrong.  Either way the only known Atium is with Marsh and even he does not have that much.

Every heavenly one has a spear with a core of Raysium.

Well, except we know the next Mistborn book is the Lost Metal, and could easily be about Atium, and it's been theorised with evidence that there's a left over excess of Ruin (due to extra Preservation in Humanity but Harmony being balanced) which would be delayed in growing back by the destruction of Hathim but would eventually come back approximately when Wax and Wayne are set, and that the Lost Metal probably just about precedes RoW...

 

I think there's a solid chance Atium is back and taking it off world could be a way to stop it unbalancing Harmony

I'm not sure it's right but I think it's a good suggestion

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9 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

Well, except we know the next Mistborn book is the Lost Metal, and could easily be about Atium, and it's been theorised with evidence that there's a left over excess of Ruin (due to extra Preservation in Humanity but Harmony being balanced) which would be delayed in growing back by the destruction of Hathim but would eventually come back approximately when Wax and Wayne are set, and that the Lost Metal probably just about precedes RoW...

 

I think there's a solid chance Atium is back and taking it off world could be a way to stop it unbalancing Harmony

I'm not sure it's right but I think it's a good suggestion

Right now TLM comes after. I’m pretty sure the Thaidakar reveal is why Brandon and Karen are having a fun time with timelines right now. It seems they’ve been having some trouble figuring out when to put Mistborn with regard to SA. I’m blaming Kell’s shenanigans.

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My guess is the Threnodite chain from Celebrant, based on the chapter 64 epigraph:

Quote

The sand originated offworld. It is only one of such amazing wonders that come from other lands—I have recently obtained a chain from the lands of the dead, said to be able to anchor a person through Cognitive anomalies. I fail to see what use it could be to me, as I am unable to leave the Rosharan system. But it is a priceless object nonetheless.

 

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Why wouldn't this be at least two copies of the sphere Galivar handed to Szeth to keep safe? Rab's "devoid of rhythms" could be a consequence of being close to anti-voidlight. Two of them would provide a soft clink. A soft clink implies two metal, glass, or ceramic things hitting together once. A chain might have several soft clinks, but not one.

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3 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

Well, except we know the next Mistborn book is the Lost Metal, and could easily be about Atium, and it's been theorised with evidence that there's a left over excess of Ruin (due to extra Preservation in Humanity but Harmony being balanced) which would be delayed in growing back by the destruction of Hathim but would eventually come back approximately when Wax and Wayne are set, and that the Lost Metal probably just about precedes RoW...

Except that entire series is after this book chronologically.

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6 minutes ago, Karger said:

Except that entire series is after this book chronologically.

Do we know that?

 

Pretty sure the speculation along various unofficial, fan timelines was that W and W and SA happened pretty much contemporaneously, certainly the letters imply it (certainly the one in this book).

 

But do we have a WoB that this isn't the case, that W and W occurs after SA? Makes the last two Wax and Wayne books and Saze's confusion over what could be attacking him and seeming naivety about the Cosmere (if he's being honest to Wax) a bit weird 

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Though actually, come to think of it, that's irrelevant really. All that matters is whether Atium has regrown, which would still happen 300 years ish post The Last Empire (it's implied) and would still fit the timeline as long as W and W and SA happen near each other in time. 

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Just now, IndigoAjah said:

Do we know that?

Yes.  Some fans have put together a good reference timeline here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JJtJhHwpKdow01n2-bsT3scVvqJd6lZh4uvpNwcslv8/edit#gid=0

Quote

Questioner

Can you put the Cosmere books into [chronological] order?

Brandon Sanderson

Here is the order that I have publicly confirmed. There are obviously other books and stories fitting in there. For those, you’ll just need to RAFO.

  • Elantris
  • The Emperor’s Soul
  • First Mistborn trilogy (The Final Empire)
  • Warbreaker
  • Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell
  • The Stormlight Archive
  • Wax and Wayne Era Mistborn (Alloy of Law)
  • Sixth of the Dusk
  • Future Mistborn trilogy
Miscellaneous 2016 (July 15, 2016)

 

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On 21/11/2020 at 11:19 PM, Lightspine said:

Because of the clinking, I think it was probably something metallic or glass. Straight-up money (coins, spheres) doesn't really seem sufficient, obviously. I also don't know if Raboniel's voice being devoid of the rhythms is relevant to some property of the payment or is just a result of her emotions.

Could it be this from the Part 3 Epigraphs from Raboniel?

Quote

The sand originated offworld. It is only one of such amazing wonders that come from other lands—I have recently obtained a chain from the lands of the dead, said to be able to anchor a person through Cognitive anomalies. I fail to see what use it could be to me, as I am unable to leave the Rosharan system. But it is a priceless object nonetheless.

EDIT: Oops wait I just saw it's been mentioned above, never mind.

Edited by DracostarA
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Well whatever it was in the pouch that Mraize gave to Raboniel that clinked, it was the "advance payment" for the GB's use of the Oathgates. She recognized it, so it's not likely to be something off-world in nature; yet she took very great care not to give away her true reaction to seeing it by stilling the rhythms in her speech, declaring it a "fine gift."

So the Ghostbloods were saying, not very subtly, Do you like this? We have more where this came from.

And hey. It's Navani's now!

Edited by robardin
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On 11/21/2020 at 6:38 PM, Karger said:

My wild guess.  Maybe Wildlight spheres?  We know not only that Raboniel recognizes it as valuable but that it has value to her.  Given what she is after currently Wildlight(Lifelight+Voidlight) makes a lot of sense.

Is Wildlight the working title for Lifelight + Voidlight? Because that's perfect

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On 22.11.2020 at 7:08 AM, Bremen said:

Why not Raysium?

That would reveal that the Fused have a leak. The thumbscrews would come out, however useful Mraize would be.

 

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1 hour ago, spitfireky said:

Is Wildlight the working title for Lifelight + Voidlight? Because that's perfect

It is the title I use.  Given that you can guess what I am talking about I would from the context and name I would hazard it is a good one.

Edited by Karger
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I think it might be Feruchemical rings.  Mraize had just killed what sounds like a Terrisman when he captured Lift.  She noted that the man seemed to have a bunch of missing rings, and it would be the type of things that Mraize would recognize as valuable and might be willing to offer in trade.  Especially if he knows he can get more from his sources.  Given that Raboniel can hear rhythms from invested sources, it's possible that she recognized them for what they were.

Edited by Malim
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1 minute ago, Malim said:

I think it might be Feruchemical rings.  Mraize had just killed what sounds like a Terrisman when he captured Lift.  She noted that the man seemed to have a bunch of missing rings, and it would be the type of things that Mraize would recognize as valuable and might be willing to offer in trade.  Especially if he knows he can get more from his sources.  Given that Raboniel can hear rhythms from invested sources, it's possible that she recognized them for what they were.

Why would it be beneficial to give the Fused metalminds?

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4 minutes ago, spitfireky said:

Why would it be beneficial to give the Fused metalminds?

Raboniel is a scholar, and looking for new forms of investiture in a search for a way to end the war.  For all she knows, metalminds might be it.  If nothing else, she is Cosmere aware, and she might simply be interested in experimenting with something new.  Honestly, I can't think of anything too specific, just throwing darts.  ;) I'll have to do some thinking before I can come up with a full theory.

Edited by Malim
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40 minutes ago, Malim said:

Raboniel is a scholar, and looking for new forms of investiture in a search for a way to end the war.  For all she knows, metalminds might be it.  If nothing else, she is Cosmere aware, and she might simply be interested in experimenting with something new.  Honestly, I can't think of anything too specific, just throwing darts.  ;) I'll have to do some thinking before I can come up with a full theory.

That'd be super interesting if that's the case.

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Eureka!  I was going over the epigraphs with Jescape for their project and got the answer to this question.

2 hours ago, Jescape said:

The sand originated offworld. It is only one of such amazing wonders that come from other lands - I have recently obtained a chain from the lands of the dead, said to be able to anchor a person through Cognitive anomalies. I fail to see what use it could be to me, as I am unable to leave the Rosharan system. But it is a priceless object nonetheless.  From Rhythm of War, page 13 undertext.

It matches all the descriptions,

On 11/21/2020 at 6:19 AM, Oltux72 said:
  • It is valuable
  • It is rare
  • Raboniel recognised it
  • It is small enough to fit into a bag
  • It clincked

makes sense, and is clearly stated.

Edited by Karger
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