theory Voidbinding is of both Odium and Honor (Discuss)

[KandraAllomancer]

tl;dr version: In this post I will try to convince you that Voidbinding is a nascent magic system of both Odium(“void”) and Honor (“binding”), and present a theory on how it was created

Voidbinding doesn't make sense as Odium's magic system
The name: we now know from multiple sources that Adhesion, the Surge of binding things together, is the one closest to Honor. The Fused don't even recognize it as a Surge; they talk about Surges, but don't seem to use the word Surgebinding. They are called Voidbringers (I'm sorry, Singers ). Why would Odium's magic have 'binding' in its name?
It's pointless: why would Odium grant anybody the power of futuresight if it interferes with his own and ultimately leads to his downfall?
10-centric: Voidbinding has ten levels. Yes, there are nine Unmade and they lack the Bondsith one, but that's just happenstance – we know from the Sibling that the tenth Unmade can be created. Why would Voidbinding be based on the number associated most closely with Honor? Why is the Voidbinding chart so similar to Surgebinding and so unlike the Fused abilities?
Lore: the first mentions of mortals using Voidbinding abilities we know seem to be from around the time of the False Desolation: Listener songs mention the Nightform (and BAM as a source of Forms of Power) and we see potential information about corrupted Truthwatcher spren in Urithiru Gem Archive. Besides that we only have the general idea that futuresight is of Odium, but that could have come from the Unmade alone (per Taravangian's word, they all can grant it). There's rich lore about the Unmade, but none about Voidish Surges besides Illumination. The Fused are surprised that Voidspren can bond with humans and they don't see anything weird with the fact that there are no Nightforms around during the Final Desolation. Previously I believed that Voidbinding might have originated on Ashyn, but BAM's deep ties to Roshar seem to disprove that
Unexplained phenomena: what's the source of BAM's massive Connection ability? Why did her imprisonment caused so much damage to Roshar if she was just Odium's splinter? Why did the Sibling stop hearing Honor's Rhythm? How could BAM and Sja-anat rebel against Odium's will? Why was Warlight never discovered before?

Surgebinding vs fabrials
Before we move further, one more thing needs to be discussed: why are there two magic systems of Honor and Cultivation? The Rhythm of War finally gave me some idea about the difference. The fabrials are like feruchemy – they are a perfect balance between the powers of two Shards, as indicated by the nature of the Sibling and the Towerlight. Surgebinding is also of both Shards, but it's biased towards Honor. It uses more of his Investiture: it's powered by Stormlight, Honorblades are Honor's splinters, the most powerful and mystical Order is based around uniting, not growth. What happened with the surplus of Cultivation's Investiture then? It's simple: it became the basis for the Old Magic, a magical “appendage” originating from a single Shard

Ba-Ado-Mishram is the source of Voidbinding
I believe that's what Odium wanted: a simple set of magical powerful abilities to be used by the Unmade to do his bidding. That's why the Voidbinding was called the cousin of the Old Magic. It was always meant to be used by the Unmade only, not become a full magic system.
I believe, however, that at some point something extremely important happened – BAM was infused with Honor's Investiture and completely transformed. I'm not sure how or who did it; we have several plausible suspects: Ishar, Honor, Cultivation and (Dawnshard spoilers)

Spoiler

one of the Dawnshards.

Whoever that was, as a result of their action BAM became deeply Connected to Roshar and turned into something similar to the Sibling. She was suddenly able to produce Warlight and use it to control the Singers, just like the Sibling controls fabrials. She was able to grant Forms of Power from a completely new magic system: full, 10-centric Voidbinding, whose relation to the original Unmade abilities is just like the relation between the Old Magic and Surgebinding. Her abilities (and newfound autonomy) extended, to some extent, to other Unmade, especially Sja-anat, allowing her to corrupt True Spren. The one thing she couldn't do in the days before her imprisonment, however, was to create spren that would grant full Voidbinding – there wasn't simply enough Odium Investiture on the planet. Now, however, the situation has changed: the Everstorm circulates Roshar and clashes with the Highstorm, providing the exact conditions that she needs, once she's released (most likely in Book 5). This will lead to unleashing the full power of Voidbinding, which will become a major plot point (and a weapon against Odium) in Arc 2

Edited November 21, 2020 by KandraAllomancer

[DracostarA]

If we compare to Scadrial, where there were 2 shards causing 3 separate magic systems, I think realistically there will be 3 different sets of magic ; Honor + Cultivation = Surgebinding, Honor + Odium = Voidbinding and Cultivation + Odium = Something.

We haven't seen any individual magic systems yet so I assume that each Shard lacks an inidividual magic system, although I think a magic system comprised of all 3 is possible.

In addition, I think the Old Magic is something very different and is done by work of the Nightwatcher only (this may relate to Ashyn) and not a standardised magic system.

[KandraAllomancer]

On 21.11.2020 at 1:52 AM, DracostarA said:

We haven't seen any individual magic systems yet so I assume that each Shard lacks an inidividual magic system, although I think a magic system comprised of all 3 is possible.

We do have the Surges of the Fused, but they are technically from Braize, so they hardly count. My guess would be that dual Shard magic system are created when two Shards cooperate (Feruchemy, Surgebinding, Surge Fabrials) and possibly when their Investiture is forced to merge somehow (Voidbinding, Threnody might be a minor Shardworld version of this). Neither situation has happened for C&O or H&C&O so far, but they seem entirely possible in the future

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 11/20/2020 at 5:33 PM, KandraAllomancer said:

It's pointless: why would Odium grant anybody the power of futuresight if it interferes with his own and ultimately leads to his downfall?

Shards don't decide what their magic systems do.

On 11/20/2020 at 5:33 PM, KandraAllomancer said:

The Fused are surprised that Voidspren can bond with humans and they don't see anything weird with the fact that there are no Nightforms around during the Final Desolation.

Assuming you mean this current Desolation, we see some nightforms mentioned this book. 

On 11/20/2020 at 5:33 PM, KandraAllomancer said:

Unexplained phenomena: what's the source of BAM's massive Connection ability? Why did her imprisonment caused so much damage to Roshar if she was just Odium's splinter?

I have a different theory on this — I think Mishram was a Bondsmith spren (my theory says naturally of Odium, but it's possible she was corrupted by him post-arrival). I know Brandon's said the Bondsmith is the missing Unmade, but like, a. she Connected to an entire species, b. he said it's not one-to-one anyway.

On 11/20/2020 at 5:33 PM, KandraAllomancer said:

Before we move further, one more thing needs to be discussed: why are there two magic systems of Honor and Cultivation? The Rhythm of War finally gave me some idea about the difference. The fabrials are like feruchemy – they are a perfect balance between the powers of two Shards, as indicated by the nature of the Sibling and the Towerlight. Surgebinding is also of both Shards, but it's biased towards Honor.

Personally, I feel fabrials are more similar to Aviar, in that they are, while a magic system, not really the same "type" of magic system, for lack of a better word. I believe we know any Splinter can be used to make a fabrial-type device?

On 11/20/2020 at 5:33 PM, KandraAllomancer said:

Why would Voidbinding be based on the number associated most closely with Honor?

I feel like this is probably just because it's Roshar, personally. Just like Hemalurgy and Allomancy have the same number of metals. (I'm also on the side that the numbers are more due to perception by those on the planet than the Shards themselves, but that's speculation.)

[Honorless]

On 11/21/2020 at 5:03 AM, KandraAllomancer said:

Lore: the first mentions of mortals using Voidbinding abilities we know seem to be from around the time of the False Desolation: 

Are we not counting Ashyn? They used the Surges there, possibly using a Dawnshard, possibly with Investiture supplied by Odium as per the Stormfather and Syl.

[+Oltux72]

On 21.11.2020 at 0:33 AM, KandraAllomancer said:

10-centric: Voidbinding has ten levels. Yes, there are nine Unmade and they lack the Bondsith one, but that's just happenstance – we know from the Sibling that the tenth Unmade can be created. Why would Voidbinding be based on the number associated most closely with Honor? Why is the Voidbinding chart so similar to Surgebinding and so unlike the Fused abilities?

Because it arose on Roshar. Presumably for the same reason that each Knight Radiant and bearer of a Honorblade gets two Surges. It is not at all clear why the Knights Radiant should be numerically dominated by Honor alone, if they are sponsored by Honor and Cultivation. The Honorblades came from Honor, yet they granted two Surges. Why?

This question is a bit circular by setting Surgebinding as practiced by the Knights Radiant as the default. Why? The Fused look a lot more basic. They cannot be original because they have red eyes, but one brand, one Surge looks simpler.

On 21.11.2020 at 0:33 AM, KandraAllomancer said:

Lore: the first mentions of mortals using Voidbinding abilities we know seem to be from around the time of the False Desolation:

Whence comes the taboo against seeing the future? All Shards have that ability.

 

[Golstar]

On 11/21/2020 at 0:33 AM, KandraAllomancer said:

Ba-Ado-Mishram is the source of Voidbinding
I believe that's what Odium wanted: a simple set of magical powerful abilities to be used by the Unmade to do his bidding. That's why the Voidbinding was called the cousin of the Old Magic. It was always meant to be used by the Unmade only, not become a full magic system.
I believe, however, that at some point something extremely important happened – BAM was infused with Honor's Investiture and completely transformed. I'm not sure how or who did it; we have several plausible suspects: Ishar, Honor, Cultivation and (Dawnshard spoilers)

We have this WoB which indicates that there is a connection the Unmade, but it seems to indicate that Voidbinding can originate elsewhere.

Quote

 

dvoraen

"To see the future originates with the Unmade..." "Voidbinding is a dark and evil thing, and the soul of it was to try to divine the future." Is it therefore safe to say that Voidbinding, by extension, also originates with the Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Not always. But usually.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 22, 2018)

 

Personally, I think that it is relatively simple: Voidbinding is just bonding a corrupted spren. A "regular" Nahel Bond gives access to manipulating surges. Bonding in itself is a thing of Honor, but the corrupted spren are of Odium. So I agree it is of Honor+Odium, but I think it's really just another facet of what Nahel Bonds.

Another interesting WoB:

Quote

 

rags

You have told us there are more than 30 magical systems on Roshar. I am assuming there are 10 Surgebindings and 10 Voidbindings. Do the next 10 belong to another such classification? If yes, can you give us the name for it.

Brandon Sanderson

Fabrials are part of it.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

 

So maybe focusing on Voidbinding as a whole is missing the point: each type of voidbinding is unique to the type of bonded spren. I think this makes sense given the central role of the Nahel Bond.

A final WoB:

Quote

 

Thadamin

Are spren able to manifest Surges like the humans they are bonded to? Syl is able to stick things together are other types able to do other things or is the sticking things together something else?

Brandon Sanderson

The Spren are living Surges, in a way. There are some "higher" spren which have more ability than others to touch certain Surges. Honor, for example, is not a force of nature--but a force of thought. What is attributed to it relates more to the abstract.

And that didn't really answer you, did it? Well, hopefully it's enough.

Phantine

Is them being living Surges the same as how seons are living Aons?

Brandon Sanderson

Similar.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 17, 2015)

 

If Spren are living Surges, Surgebinding may just be binding surges literally. The pre-Radiant/Roshar Surgebinding being a way to bind surges without an oath, and perhaps not even using a spren, but non-sentient surges (the diseases?).

I think 'Void' represents alien/foreign on Roshar, so Voidbinding is binding the unnatural forces of the universe. So really just any spren touched by Odium's investiture - or perhaps even any non-Honor/non-Cultivation investiture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Seloun]

I think Voidbinding is essentially an inverted Nahel bond. Specifically, it's where the human provides Investure to the spren rather than the reverse. I think that Renarin is an example of this:

Quote

“I’m not sure I should say. I know I told you to come talk to me, but … I vacillate. The things I see, they’re of him, right? I think he shows me what he wants. That’s why I saw you becoming his champion.” He glanced down at his bowl. “Glys isn’t convinced the visions are bad. He says we’re something new, and he doesn’t think the visions are specifically from Odium—though perhaps his desires taint what we see.”

...

Glys, who preferred to hide within Renarin, grew excited. He’d captured this vision as it came, so they could study it. Renarin wasn’t quite so enthusiastic. It would be so much easier if he were like other Radiants.

...

Around Renarin, the stained glass windows began to crumble. It took Stormlight and effort by Glys to re-create them—and he was plainly getting tired. Gradually, Renarin’s world became normal.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Glys is the one that captures the vision (similar wording as Shallan's Memories) and Glys is the one that creates the images. My theory is that the 'corrupting' that Sja-anat allows Radiant spren to invert the Nahel bond. This was rare before the Recreance since spren couldn't really be broken in the same way people could to allow Investure to enter:

Quote

“We’re spren,” Syl said. “We’re forces. You can’t kill us completely. Just . . . sort of.”

“That’s perfectly clear.”

“It’s perfectly clear to us,” Syl said. “You’re the strange ones. Break a rock, and it’s still there. Break a spren, and she’s still there. Sort of. Break a person, and something leaves. Something changes. What’s left is just meat. You’re weird.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 1044). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

also

Quote

It was coming to us, the Sibling said. Consequences once chased only humans. With the Recreance, the consequences became ours as well. You have simply sealed that truth as eternal.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Whatever happened to BAM during the Recreance appears to have made the spren vulnerable in this regard (or, say, more human-like - shades of Ishar's experimentation here). But if spren can break like humans, then perhaps they can also be repaired in the same way:

Quote

“Radiants break too,” Kaladin whispered. “But then, fortunately, we fill the cracks with something stronger. Come on. We need to protect the people in that tower. You in your way. Me in mine.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

So I think the Voidbinders (remember, humans are Voidbringers) will be Renarin, Rlain, anyone else binding a Sja-anat spren, and anyone reverse-binding a deadeye (i.e. Adolin), though the latter may require Sja-anat's assistance. Or more accurately, the spren are the Void(human)binders.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Seloun

[Itchy Savant]

On 09/12/2020 at 2:56 PM, Seloun said:

I think Voidbinding is essentially an inverted Nahel bond. Specifically, it's where the human provides Investure to the spren rather than the reverse. I think that Renarin is an example of this:

Glys is the one that captures the vision (similar wording as Shallan's Memories) and Glys is the one that creates the images. My theory is that the 'corrupting' that Sja-anat allows Radiant spren to invert the Nahel bond. This was rare before the Recreance since spren couldn't really be broken in the same way people could to allow Investure to enter:

also

Whatever happened to BAM during the Recreance appears to have made the spren vulnerable in this regard (or, say, more human-like - shades of Ishar's experimentation here). But if spren can break like humans, then perhaps they can also be repaired in the same way:

So I think the Voidbinders (remember, humans are Voidbringers) will be Renarin, Rlain, anyone else binding a Sja-anat spren, and anyone reverse-binding a deadeye (i.e. Adolin), though the latter may require Sja-anat's assistance. Or more accurately, the spren are the Void(human)binders.

I actually really like the bit about Adolin restoring Maya ala voidbinding but needing Sja-Anat's help.

 

One of the corrupted Spren even goes so far as to thank Sja-Anat for the Eyes she gave them IIRC.

Edited to add the quote: 

Page 287 Hardcover.  A corrupted Spren is thanking Sja-Anat: "Thank you, Mother", he said. "Thank you for my eyes".

There is definitely a link there.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Itchy Savant

[Frustration]

On 12/7/2020 at 11:55 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Assuming you mean this current Desolation, we see some nightforms mentioned this book. 

Where at, because I don't remember Nightform being mentioned.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

19 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Where at, because I don't remember Nightform being mentioned.

Chapter 83.

Quote

“The Pursuer has found the Windrunner’s parents, Ancient One,” Venli said. “I’m certain of it. He posted two nightform Regals at the Radiant infirmary.”

 

[KandraAllomancer]

On 8.12.2020 at 8:32 AM, Honorless said:

Are we not counting Ashyn? They used the Surges there, possibly using a Dawnshard, possibly with Investiture supplied by Odium as per the Stormfather and Syl.

Yeah, but they had Bondsmiths and Oathgates, apparently, and the destruction of the planet seems like superpowered Division (based on Raboniel's tale). Even with Odium's Investiture, these seem like regular Surges

On 8.12.2020 at 7:55 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Shards don't decide what their magic systems do.

They don't, but they can refuse to Invest on a planet and restrict / modify the effects (Honor restricting the Bondsmith powers, Harmony modifying Snapping etc.). It seems that Odium doesn't have that kind of power over Voidbinding, currently

On 8.12.2020 at 7:55 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Assuming you mean this current Desolation, we see some nightforms mentioned this book. 

Yeah, I totally missed that on my first read. The fact that they have zero plot relevance so far makes me think that futuresight is specific to BAM or Odium restricts that power, as described above

On 8.12.2020 at 7:55 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I have a different theory on this — I think Mishram was a Bondsmith spren (my theory says naturally of Odium, but it's possible she was corrupted by him post-arrival). I know Brandon's said the Bondsmith is the missing Unmade, but like, a. she Connected to an entire species, b. he said it's not one-to-one anyway.

She definitely seems to be a Bondsmith spren during the False Desolation, but her powers were not understood by the KR back then and could have be something new. My current theory is that she could be using Ishar's Honorblade to do that

On 8.12.2020 at 7:55 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Personally, I feel fabrials are more similar to Aviar, in that they are, while a magic system, not really the same "type" of magic system, for lack of a better word. I believe we know any Splinter can be used to make a fabrial-type device?

Regular fabrials are on the level of minor Shardworld magic, I agree, but Surge Fabrials, like Soulasters, are part of the 30 magic systems of Roshar, with Surgebinding and Voidbinding

On 8.12.2020 at 7:55 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I feel like this is probably just because it's Roshar, personally. Just like Hemalurgy and Allomancy have the same number of metals. (I'm also on the side that the numbers are more due to perception by those on the planet than the Shards themselves, but that's speculation.)

Yeah, that's possible

[LewsTherinTelescope]

3 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

My current theory is that she could be using Ishar's Honorblade to do that

Hmm, that's an interesting thought.