for fun "Called It!" Thread [Support]

[Child of Hodor Dawnsinger]

I've seen a lot of people in different threads mention things they got right and wrong in their predictions for this book. I thought it would be fun to make thread where we can pat ourselves on the back or make fun of ourselves for what we got right and wrong. This can be either pre-RoW or based on the preview chapters. 

-I was right about Kelek being Restares. Hiding in a fortress seems like a Kelek thing and there seemed to be something special about him. 

-I was right about who Navani's critic was. 

- I was almost right about Hoid being Mraize's informant. Instead, it seems someone spied on Hoid and got the info that way. Or that's what Hoid says happened ...

_ @Karger was proven mostly right with his theory that Nale's spren lead the Singers to Szeth. (In OB we learned a voice speaking to the Rhythms led them to him). Instead Nale told Ulim who it turns out can use the Rhythms after all, he just rarely does. I went with Yelig-Nar and was way off. 

- As far as I am aware no one was right about what's in the gem Gavilar gave Szeth. If someone did guess this please take credit, that's impressive. 

- Unfortunately, (because I don't love this) a lot of people were right about who led the Ghostbloods. Stupid Kelsier, stay out Stormlight! Here are some people who were right or were very close hidden for length:

Spoiler

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/86793-is-kelsier-the-leader-of-the-ghostbloods-is-spook-thaidikar/#comment-914175 @hoiditthroughthegrapevine

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/85711-proto-ghostbloods/?do=findComment&comment=881539  @Weltall

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/92228-mraize-is-kelsier/#comment-1080187 @Pqlyur1

 

Please pat yourselves on the back, you've earned it!

[Blacksmithki High Prelan]

It's sort of a mistaken prediction, but when the pre release chapters were coming out, there was a fair amount of debate over Jasnah was actually in a relationship with Hoid, and a lot of people thought it was unlikely.

I remember one person commented something along the lines of 'when Kaladin is even mentioned with someone else this community ships them, but when there are actual in world rumours about Jasnah everyone goes "hold on, let's think about this logically"'.

Also, I know that it was pretty much agreed on what Kaladin's fourth oath was but it's nice to see it confirmed.

Also, I'm kind of proud of predicting that the singer invasion would struggle to take the tower because it was still full of very well trained soldiers, but was partially wrong thinking Kaladin would be one considering how gifted he is even without powers. But then he did fight later.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Blacksmithki

[Kingsdaughter613 Prime]

36 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I've seen a lot of people in different threads mention things they got right and wrong in their predictions for this book. I thought it would be fun to make thread where we can pat ourselves on the back or make fun of ourselves for what we got right and wrong. This can be either pre-RoW or based on the preview chapters. 

-I was right about Kelek being Restares. Hiding in a fortress seems like a Kelek thing and there seemed to be something special about him. 

-I was right about who Navani's critic was. 

- I was almost right about Hoid being Mraize's informant. Instead, it seems someone spied on Hoid and got the info that way. Or that's what Hoid says happened ...

_ @Karger was proven mostly right with his theory that Nale's spren lead the Singers to Szeth. (In OB we learned a voice speaking to the Rhythms led them to him). Instead Nale told Ulim who it turns out can use the Rhythms after all, he just rarely does. I went with Yelig-Nar and was way off. 

- As far as I am aware no one was right about what's in the gem Gavilar gave Szeth. If someone did guess this please take credit, that's impressive. 

- Unfortunately, (because I don't love this) a lot of people were right about who led the Ghostbloods. Stupid Kelsier, stay out Stormlight! Here are some people who were right or were very close hidden for length:

  Hide contents

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/86793-is-kelsier-the-leader-of-the-ghostbloods-is-spook-thaidikar/#comment-914175 @hoiditthroughthegrapevine

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/85711-proto-ghostbloods/?do=findComment&comment=881539  @Weltall

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/92228-mraize-is-kelsier/#comment-1080187 @Pqlyur1

 

Please pat yourselves on the back, you've earned it!

To be fair... I doubt most of who theorized that Thaidakar was Kell actually thought it would happen. It was a lot of fun creating ‘proofs’ for the theory and it was fun to debate, but did anyone really expect a Mistborn protagonist as a SA antagonist? I didn’t - and I was one of those arguing for it!

Now I want to know how a SA reader will react upon reading MB for the first time.

Hoid agreed with your sentiment, btw. I get the feeling this was one of those times when Kell would just not listen to Brandon. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Kingsdaughter613

[Singer Envisager]

I think a lot of folks, including me, figured that Navani would bond the Sibling, I think many people also suspected after the preview chapters that Leshwi wasn't going to stick with team Odium.

TBH, I may have to start a thread of "I didn't see THAT coming!" Because RoW sure brought A LOT to the table that I didn't see coming!

[Necessary Eagle Cryptic]

I was right that the spren were on board with the Recreance.

[Blacksmithki High Prelan]

43 minutes ago, Singer said:

I think a lot of folks, including me, figured that Navani would bond the Sibling, I think many people also suspected after the preview chapters that Leshwi wasn't going to stick with team Odium.

TBH, I may have to start a thread of "I didn't see THAT coming!" Because RoW sure brought A LOT to the table that I didn't see coming!

Technically this thread does fit, but the title makes you think it's just correct predictions.

'mention things they got right and wrong' in the first line

[Singer Envisager]

12 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

Technically this thread does fit, but the title makes you think it's just correct predictions.

'mention things they got right and wrong' in the first line

You're totally right. I guess I was thinking about the things that I had no expectations for. I had zero theories or thoughts about Dabbid, least of all that he was going to be a total hero and that I'd love him so much by the end.

If anyone had theories about Dabbid, you get an extra pat on the back from me!

And, let's face it, Taravangian? That was half "curse your sudden, but inevitable betrayal!"  And half "What? Wait, WHAT?? OH MOTHER RUSTING STORM BALLS!! WE ARE IN SUCH DEEP CREM."

[Zedseayou Idrian Monk]

I don't think I wrote this anywhere, but I did theorise that Shallan's secret was a previous spren. In particular, the confusing situation about exactly how many truths she'd spoken and when she'd spoken them seemed to imply that there were too many truths, given that she somehow had a shardblade extremely early. I wish I'd replied to one of the threads about whether she has Shardplate etc. at the time. I think it's clearer that she is actually only at the third ideal (unclear if the revelations at the end of RoW were another one), and I have no idea where her arc is going now.

A lot of people suspected Adolin would partially revive Maya, I barely even know if that's a prediction.

I was totally wrong about the Sibling, I didn't think they were Navani's correspondent (thought it was Sleepless) and I didn't want her to be the Bondsmith (at least in part because I have no idea how she's going to make that work now). I was definitely mad about the Rlain tease for bondsmith, someone even says that he's spoken for and in the entire final climax I was trying to figure out how he was going to make it down to the pillar room in time to bond the Sibling... heavy misinterpretation on my part.

I had no idea about Restares or Thaidakar.

 

6 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

_ @Karger was proven mostly right with his theory that Nale's spren lead the Singers to Szeth. (In OB we learned a voice speaking to the Rhythms led them to him). Instead Nale told Ulim who it turns out can use the Rhythms after all, he just rarely does. I went with Yelig-Nar and was way off. 

Do you have a link to this? I'm curious because I'd seen a Nale was watching Szeth theory on Reddit but definitely thought it had to be a voidspren who took Klade to him. What I find particularly hilarious about how it turned out is that it seems like Nale told Ulim to get Gavilar killed to stop the Fused returning, but Ulim did it in order to bring the Fused back, but the Five did it in order to stop the Fused returning... plus, the Five might not have done it if Gavilar hadn't grabbed Eshonai and shown her the voidlight, which doesn't happen until well after Nale meets Ulim or Gavilar!

A truly ridiculous sequence of events that only looks to get crazier with the Book 5 prologue and us hopefully finding out about Axindweth and the other Terris, not to mention Liss and other loose threads...

Edited November 20, 2020 by Zedseayou

[Blightsong Highprince]

Here to pull rank on those other links who guessed Kelsier was involved with the Ghostbloods lol, guessed it pre-Oathbringer

[Karger Unmade]

3 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

- Unfortunately, (because I don't love this) a lot of people were right about who led the Ghostbloods. Stupid Kelsier, stay out Stormlight! Here are some people who were right or were very close hidden for length:

That is still not confirmed.

 

[Blacksmithki High Prelan]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

That is still not confirmed.

 

Yeah, but it is incredibly heavily implied, to the point where it's a very safe bet. I think it's best position is something the audience knows to be true and there's a few people who just keep reminding everyone it's not confirmed.

Like did Brandon ever outright say what Kaladin's fourth oath was or did we just all know it? (before RoW)

Edited November 20, 2020 by Blacksmithki

[IcaroRibeiro Silent Gatherer]

I'm happy Kelsier is Thaidakar

 

I never dealt well he didn't die for real after Final Empire and stayed on Scadrial as a cognitive shadow. Sanderson can now really kill him and I'll cheers when this moment finally come

[CaptainRyan Worldbringer]

After reading the preview chapters, on the eve of the book being released a friend and I made last minute predictions. These are mine:

My predictions:
1. Kaladin goes Super Radiant Level 4 [correct]
2. But some other Windrunner (Teft? Sigzil?) does it first during the Tower attack. Maybe to save Kaladin from the Fused that is hunting him. [incorrect]
3. The attack on the Tower fails. Team Radiant holds the Tower. [correct]
4. Shallan's storyline stays uninteresting. [correct (to me - I understand others feel different)]
5. Adolin revives his blade and this sways the Honorspren to join the cause. [partially correct]
6. Tarvangian betrays the Alliance and Team Radiant gets hammered in their fight against Makabak or wherever. [partially correct]
7. The Mink is actually a traitor too. [incorrect]
8. Navani learns how to activate the Tower's defenses. Possibly bonds the Sibling making the first husband/wife Bondsmith pair. [correct]
9. Jasnah does something absolutely bonkers during the Makabak battle to help her side retreat and stave off complete disaster. Possibly aided by linking with Dalinar via his Bondsmith powers. [sadly, incorrect]
10. Hoid continues to be an asshole. [correct]

[Blacksmithki High Prelan]

2 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

2. But some other Windrunner (Teft? Sigzil?) does it first during the Tower attack. Maybe to save Kaladin from the Fused that is hunting him. [incorrect]

So close though, you were so close to being correct but it was stolen away in the worst way.

[Mason Wheeler Spinner]

Things I thought were going to happen after reading the Part 1 preview chapters on Tor.com:

• While fighting off the raid, Kaladin would be put in another Really Bad Choice situation and have to recognize that he can't save everyone, thereby achieving the 4th ideal and getting his armor.
• Navani would become the Bondsmith of the Sibling and restore Urithiru to power.
• During the raid, Szeth would use Nightblood against a Fused, who would be killed permanently.
• Taravangian would turn on Dalinar and try to betray him, but lose easily because Dalinar would be prepared for it.
• Adolin would somehow manage to restore Maya and bond her.
• The Honorspren that Kaladin wanted to bond Rlain would not, but instead would end up bonding a bad guy.
• Shallan would finally admit the deep, dark secret about someone else she had killed/harmed, which she thinks is the worst thing of all but would somehow be anticlimactic from the reader's perspective compared to what we already know of her past.

Additional prediction upon arriving at Lasting Integrity:

• Adolin would win his trial by fixing and bonding Maya, proving to everyone that humans can not only harm spren, but also help restore them.

Things I never saw coming:

• Odivangian
• Everything related to the Ishar scene
• The Sibling was the person writing to Navani
• Kelek
• anti-Light
• Teft death

[Ramona Tehradin Ferring]

Let's line what I theorized and managed to Call it!

These came after reading preview chapters: 

1. Gavilar's spheres are more than they seem to be. (Super correct) 
2. Lirin and Kaladin are going to clash over their idealogies. (Kinda expecting from Oathbringer.) 
3. Shallan will get another personality and continue to be annoying than ever. (Forgive me, but I can't help it). 
4. Two more lunatic bananas called Heralds might show up to irritate. (Well, we got three Heralds.) 
5. A bromance moment between Adolin and Kaladin. (no matter how small it was!)
6. Kaladin taking care of Gallant.  (Would have loved that) 
7. Adolin will revive aid Maya in front of Honorspren but will die in process. 
8. Some interactions between Kaladin and Laral. 
9. Jasnah and Kaladin ship.
10. Navani's phantom spanreed user was Sibling. (Had it coming) 
11. Leshwi will defect to Radiant side, so will Venli. ( I guess it middle ground) 
12. Venli will kidnap one of Radiants to learn more about her abilities, some Stoneward perhaps. 
13. Stoneward sprens are called Peakspren. (YEAHHHHH!)
14. Lift will sneak her way along Honorspren Fortress. 
15. Dustbringers will be very prevalent. 
16. Navani will bond to Sibling. ( We hard it coming) 
17. Kaladin will not speak 4th Ideal. (In my life, I've never been so freaking happy to be declared wrong.) 
18. Lirin will die. (oh, I so wished!) 
19. Might see thermonuclear version of stormlight-bombs being dropped from Fourth Bridge over enemy forces.  (Maybe we could see Anti-voidlight stuff dropping in book 5?)
20. Dalinar-Jasnah will lose their battle in Emul because Jasnah makes a rookie mistake. 
21. The Mink is a Dustbringer. (honestly I thought there would be lot about Dustbringers) 
22. The Reshi King would be 'good' Dustbringer for Radiant faction. (clues where he vanished?) 
23. People remaining at tower would be Kaladin, Szeth, Navani, Renarin, Taln, Ash and Zahel. 
24. Taravangian will die not before betraying Dalinar and co. 
25. The power-sucking fabrial used on Kaladin will be used again. (HA! I KNEW THAT SO MUCH)
26. We will learn about Cultivations Vessel. ( We do!)
27. Will get a Rock, Chiri-Chiri, Axix, Odium, Nale, Lift, Lirin/Hesina/Laral interlude. 
28. Kaladin will defeat The Pursuer. (OH YEAH!!!!)
29. Sylphrena is more than what it seems to be. (I guess...?)

 

Additional theories that didn't came true: 

• We will learn how Shard Honor was splintered by Odium and somehow, get more into Shardic formation and destruction. It has been said that a Shard cannot be ever completely be destroyed so I was thinking Dalinar might learn to reassemble Honor. (this might sprout in book 5?)
• There will be more information embedded in Elia Stelle about human arrival from Ashyn and cause of Desolations. I find it difficult to perceive how nobody even muttered a single word about the single most important information that lurched Recreance and shook foundation of Knight Radiants. 
• Kaladin will wield Nightblood. (Just a personal wink) 
• Rlain will become a Stoneward. 
• To conquer the tower, Reboniel will use a violent form of plague which she managed to inculcate only to humans, not singers and that would cause people at tower to slowly perish as the epidemic spread. 

 

Things I was NOT expecting. 

• Lirin to remain alive. (xD) 
• Jasnah and Wit! (I absolutely do not rust them. Forgive me but it makes me cringe to see anyone with Jasnah) 
• Teft dying. 
• Moash living. (Should have died after everything.)
• Taravangian freaking ascending! (nope, nope nope) 
• Kaladin using Shardplate to save others, including Leshwi. 
• Rlain a Truthwatcher. 
• Kaladin becoming a therapist. 
• Ishar and sprens (the biotechnologist inside me was intrigued but the reader was digusted) 
• All different kinds of lights. 
• Lift is powered by Lifelight. 
• Taidakkar is...Kelsier! 
• Truthwatcher spren are called Mistspren 

[Ptolema Forescout]

I didn't want to look back at what I posted here as I wasn't quite ready to cringe at what I guessed, but now I'm surprised I actually wasn't entirely wrong? I guess a lot of them were predictable, though.

Quote

• Navani is going to find the Sibling, or figure out what happened to them (yep, and even better than I thought it would go)
• Adolin will somehow fix Maya and maybe gain some Radiant-esque powers, but not be a conventional Radiant because Mayalaran would be the broken one in the union as opposed to it being a spren bonding with a broken human. (nope... He did slightly fix her, but he isn't a Radiant at all right now)
• Maya will be important towards figuring out exactly what happened during the Recreance (and oh boy how important she was)
• Venli's Radiant-ness will be very awkward for people to accept, but not rejected, because if they didn't turn down Szeth they'd probably not turn down anyone genuinely interested in being anti-Odium (I think I was kind of wrong on this one because from what I see, it wasn't even an awkward team-up, everyone just rolled with it even before she outright admitted she was a Radiant)

I also had some theories about Glys and Sja-anat but like... Not much happened with Glys in this book, lol.

[Gderu Oldblood]

I predicted that soulcasters are made by sapient spren who consented to become a fabrial. All my other predictions are way off though.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Gderu

[Karger Unmade]

On 11/20/2020 at 5:44 PM, Blacksmithki said:

Yeah, but it is incredibly heavily implied, to the point where it's a very safe bet. I think it's best position is something the audience knows to be true and there's a few people who just keep reminding everyone it's not confirmed.

Like did Brandon ever outright say what Kaladin's fourth oath was or did we just all know it? (before RoW)

I did not believe Kaladin's fourth oath was what you say it was.  Just because something is obvious does not mean it is true.  Our evidence remains  entirely circumstantial.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Karger

[VirtuousTraveller Silent Gatherer]

I predicted Shallan’s grave hidden secret...

Spoiler

That she killed her first spren before Pattern.

...but honestly, the story REALLY went out of its way to set this up, which was really off putting for me.  It’s like that meme of DeCaprio pointing at the TV - you saw it coming a mile away, and then it wasn’t really interesting when it happened.  At least that was my experience, and if it wasn’t yours, that’s ok because everyone is entitled to their own experience with art =)

For all the talk about Adolin being so cookie cutter everything works out, I honestly didn’t expect what happened with Maya - that was a perfect “wow Brandon, the fandom seems convinced Adolin’s going to restore her and become a Radiant and is disappointed that’s so predictable WAIT NOPE NOT WHAT HAPPENED” moment.

But Shallan?  

Spoiler

Mistaking Pattern as a bad guy? Seeing the Cryptic deadeye spren?  Getting more and more anxious as the honorspren very pointedly kept asking if anyone RECENTLY killed a spren by breaking a bond?

C’mon - it’s like this third hidden Shallan secret was forced quickly to create an additional trauma and plot development point that didn’t seem necessary. And it also wasn’t really fleshed out very clearly either, so I’m sure we’ll eventually get a flashback, but I’m not thrilled about the idea.  I’ve generally liked her character, but as others have mentioned, this felt less like an expression of DID and more an overextension of a character into space that didn’t seem necessary.

As the SandoFandom grows, I wonder how hard it is to keep ahead of the theories, you know?  As if Brandon was planning a big reveal with Odium in this book, but everyone for a year leading up to the release was all “WE EXPECT THIS TO HAPPEN,” does that change his writing?  I doubt it, but it makes you wonder.

For example:

Spoiler

What, everyone is convinced now that Kelsier is this mysterious Cognitive Shadow Theidekar person?  That’s a big plot connection to other cosmere work, but is it as magical and artistically fulfilling if everyone sees it coming?  I almost don’t want it to be Kelsier, just because it seems too obvious, but how does an author continue to walk that line of expectation and suspense?

But what do we want more?  To see the book fulfill what we all expect (ie more broader cosmere connections with each new storm lightbook) or to completely shock and surprise, (like whatever happened in that strange epilogue we just got?)

I loved Lost, and while I hated that all the loose ends weren’t tied up exactly and explicitly like I’d hoped in the end, I enjoyed the experience because it made it hard to predict WHAT was happening (despite tons of easter eggs and a theory crafting fandom).

This was the first book that felt a little predictable, but even that being said, so much WAS unexpected that I thoroughly enjoyed it and will love Brandon and his writing all my life =)

May there always be another secret, and may we continue to hypothesize together until we all return to The One!

[Kingsdaughter613 Prime]

On 11/20/2020 at 5:38 PM, Blightsong said:

Here to pull rank on those other links who guessed Kelsier was involved with the Ghostbloods lol, guessed it pre-Oathbringer

Ditto. It was my crazy crackpot theory back in WoR. I don’t know if I’d even made a Shard account back then. I certainly never expected it to HAPPEN. But I’ve felt that the GBs would suit Kell for a LONG time. It’s so weird knowing that it wasn’t a crazy idea after all.

[ftl Forger]

2 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

This was the first book that felt a little predictable, but even that being said, so much WAS unexpected that I thoroughly enjoyed it and will love Brandon and his writing all my life =)

May there always be another secret, and may we continue to hypothesize together until we all return to The One!

It seems really challenging, because there's a big gulf between what people can figure out if they're the sort of obsessive fans that pore over all the books, reread, come together and discuss theories, versus what people can figure out if they just... read the books. Once, straight through, no rereads.

My guess is that that target level of foreshadowing is that somebody who reads the books, straight through, once, doesn't guess what's going on but does have an "ohh, NOW I see all the hints leading up to this" reaction once they know the answer. Unfortunately, if you do something that's so unexpected that it can't be guessed by someone poring over all the books looking for clues, that means you can't do any good foreshadowing. Because you DO need that moment of "Ohh, now that I know this secret, I can see all the hints leading up to it." Otherwise it just feels random.

It's probably also pretty personalized - others might have other bits. I guessed that Radiant was the killer from the moment Shallan had that conversation with the Unseen Court, and so I didn't think Ishnah, Vatah, or Beryl, or Pattern were ever the spy... ...but I never caught the bits of foreshadowing about Shallan's deadeye until it was actually revealed.

[Forest Nymphomaniac Pahn Kahl]

The one thing I can think of clearly, is that when the first few chapters were released early, i was absolutely 100% certain when Kaladin said he would never swear the fourth ideal, that he would before the book had ended. I had no doubt, and i almost screamed when it finally happened.

[Stormtide_Leviathan Silent Gatherer]

I was right that Rlain was gonna bond a corrupted Spren. I thought it was gonna be an honorspren but I still count that as a victory.

I was right that Kel was Thaidikar. (I wasn't sure, but it was my leading theory)

I was right that the critic was the Sibling and they would bond Navani.

I was right that Restares was the High Judge, though i didn't expect them to be a HERALD!

I was right that Taravangian was gonna take up Odium on his day of greatest compassion. (I wasn't sure it would be this book, but i was confidant of this so I feel victorious)

 

Big things I was wrong about: I thought Kaladin wasn't gonna swear the fourth idea. I thought Shallan was gonna wake her deadeye, and Adolin wake maya and become an Edgedancer.

 

Things I have no proof of but know will be true: There *will* be Navani/Raboniel fanfiction

[Honorless Lord Ruler]

I managed to predict some things in advance while reading RoW

1) Bunch of things in advance from hints, I'm counting them all in one, because they could've been guessed at that point anyway

What the Rhythm of War was

Restares' identity

Thaidakar's identity

etc.

2) This is the one I'm proud of: I managed to predict the Dawnsingers ability, not completely, but that they could use the Rhythms to alter things

I was thinking about the Name of the Wind. Specifically the art of Naming. I looked at the names: "Listeners", "Singers", "Dawnsingers" and noticed the similarity and wondered what if. Then went *gasp* could it be? And I was right!

3) Found the topic! I noticed the thing about the pulses that Seekers heard and the Rosharan Rhythms and wondered how Investiture is sorted/keyed in the Spiritual Realm. I came quite close, I think:

I hope I'm right and Spiritwebs are also like pulses/Rhythms in the Spiritual.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Honorless