Leuthie Posted November 20, 2020 Report Share Posted November 20, 2020 Honor + Cultivation + Odium Honor -> Fulfill obligations, keep agreements, Oaths Cultivation -> Prepare for growth, acquire and develop skills Odium -> Directed hate or disgust as a result of the targets actions (Why was this separated into a single Shard?) Holding all three shards wouldn't result in the same kind of blocks that the other multiple Shard Vessel we know experiences. Honor and Cultivation are nearly fully compatible, at the most tempering the worst of each other. Unchecked growth might be slightly checked by a need to keep promises. Making such promises would be checked by the need to develop growth. The one that would be checked the most, and really shouldn't be its own Shard anyway, is Odium. Hate is useful and, if focused, can be a great motivator to pursue change. In the case of a Vessel holding all three shards, the need to Hate would be tempered by the need to fulfill Oaths and the need to foster Growth. Long term, the Shard would need to focus the Hate on actions that go against its other two Intents, resulting in a very Protective Shard. In fact, Protection would be a pretty damn close stab at a shard name for the Three. Or Nationalization (bureaucracy + growth + outward hatred)... I think Branderson ending his magnum opus in a similar way to his first trilogy would be a bit too much repetition, but it could work as a mid epic happening. These three Shards seem particularly compatible to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted November 20, 2020 Report Share Posted November 20, 2020 We have a clue in Warlight. So what happens if you combine war and growth? Should we name that Shard Empire or Conquest? Faced with that prospect I would take Hoid's attitude. Better burn that solar system than let this happen. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted November 20, 2020 Report Share Posted November 20, 2020 I think Odium and Cultivation would be Darwinian Evolution (survival of the fittest). Cultivation and Honor are Science. Odium and Honor are War. So the three being Conquest definitely makes sense... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted November 20, 2020 Report Share Posted November 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: I think Odium and Cultivation would be Darwinian Evolution (survival of the fittest). Cultivation and Honor are Science. Odium and Honor are War. So the three being Conquest definitely makes sense... I was trying to imagine what this combination would be - it was not addressed in RoW itself, I don't think - but this image is probably pretty accurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 11/20/2020 at 3:51 PM, robardin said: I was trying to imagine what this combination would be - it was not addressed in RoW itself, I don't think - but this image is probably pretty accurate. I’d actually meant Social Darwinism (I was tired), but I love the gif! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 I think Cultivation + Odium would be Hedonism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of Ravens Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 I think a mix of all 3 would depend on the vessel. Harmony could have as well became Discord if someone else picked up Ruin and Preservation. So it could be Conquest or Momentum or hell ... Inquisition? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprendiferous Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 I was thinking on this as well. I've been nursing a theory that the 3 together could be Unity. A group bound by their oaths to each other, growing together, to defeat a common enemy (or achieve the goals of a Passion). I assumed this to be the case when Dalinar (a man invested by all 3 shards) says "I am Unity" (note the capital U). I'm sure there is something poking a hole in this but it's been my headcanon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriodor Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Sprendiferous said: I was thinking on this as well. I've been nursing a theory that the 3 together could be Unity. A group bound by their oaths to each other, growing together, to defeat a common enemy (or achieve the goals of a Passion). I assumed this to be the case when Dalinar (a man invested by all 3 shards) says "I am Unity" (note the capital U). I'm sure there is something poking a hole in this but it's been my headcanon. This has been my headcanon since Oathbringer and I'm happy to see someone else thought that too. It seemed so obvious to me but you're the first person I've seen with the same theory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprendiferous Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, seriodor said: This has been my headcanon since Oathbringer and I'm happy to see someone else thought that too. It seemed so obvious to me but you're the first person I've seen with the same theory. It also explains to me why Odium shows such fear and the whole "We killed you" bit. He was seeing a potential rebuilding of Adonalsium? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriodor Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Sprendiferous said: It also explains to me why Odium shows such fear and the whole "We killed you" bit. He was seeing a potential rebuilding of Adonalsium? Exactly. We know from WoB that Cultivation fought alongside Honor, so we know he isn't talking about Tanavast. I think he saw Unity, a shard with the intent to Unite things (like the remaining shards) and a rebirth of Adonalsium. I think that's going to be one of the sides in the Cosmere-wide wars coming up. On 11/20/2020 at 11:39 AM, Leuthie said: Odium -> Directed hate or disgust as a result of the targets actions (Why was this separated into a single Shard?) Maybe Odium is the main flavor of the Shard of Passion because Adonalsium wasn't too chuffed about the whole being killed thing. We know from Dawnshard that it was resigned or understanding about the whole thing. Doesn't mean it was happy about it. Random thought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprendiferous Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, seriodor said: Exactly. We know from WoB that Cultivation fought alongside Honor, so we know he isn't talking about Tanavast. I think he saw Unity, a shard with the intent to Unite things (like the remaining shards) and a rebirth of Adonalsium. I think that's going to be one of the sides in the Cosmere-wide wars coming up. Maybe Odium is the main flavor of the Shard of Passion because Adonalsium wasn't too chuffed about the whole being killed thing. We know from Dawnshard that it was resigned or understanding about the whole thing. Doesn't mean it was happy about it. Random thought. I also have issues understanding why Odium is his own Shard. If he is truly the Shard of Passion, why is hatred the most prevalent (A commentary on the nature of Man?) It seems that the 16th Shard would need to be his opposite, Adoration or some such. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 I think at this point Odium is going to escape Roshar. Maybe they bind him for a bit longer but I think his escape is narratively inevitable given we are less than halfway through SA and more and more Cosmeric components are being introduced or brought to Roshar. On that basis, I think the *plan* (whether it works) if Mr T's boon is still in action, by Cultivation is to get Odium to pick up Mercy, which would be irresistible to a fully compassionate/passionate T. Whether he does that or not, I don't know. Or whether that doesn't make things worse! Something that hates but wants to bring mercy might try to destroy the Universe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 My other suggestion is how much can a Dawnshard, 4 of which could split Adonalsium, do to a single Shard? Change, could that Change its Intent, or at least alter it a bit? Maybe that's how we ended up with Odium and not Passion? Or maybe if Passion were picked up by someone whose only strong emotion was hate, it would slowly influence the Shard until that emotion became prominent and the Shard became Odium? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 13 hours ago, Sprendiferous said: I also have issues understanding why Odium is his own Shard. If he is truly the Shard of Passion, why is hatred the most prevalent (A commentary on the nature of Man?) It seems that the 16th Shard would need to be his opposite, Adoration or some such. I keep coming back to this in my head, has it been confirmed that Odium is in fact the Shard of Passion? Could it be that it is something else entirely or not? I also keep coming back to the end of Oathbreaker where Dalinar says "I am Unity". Could this mean that Dalinar is going to send at some point and truly become the combo of all three shards then going on to try to bring back Adonalsium? And how likely is it for the new Odium to try to kill Cultivation? How devastating would her death be to the Roshnar? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriodor Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, Starlight said: I keep coming back to this in my head, has it been confirmed that Odium is in fact the Shard of Passion? Could it be that it is something else entirely or not? I believe him when he says this because none of the other shards have a name that's just an emotion like Odium does. It actually threw me off pretty hard when he was revealed because it seemed pretty out of place. I'm sticking with the theory that Adonalsium was pretty ticked when they killed it, and that influenced the shard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 Just now, seriodor said: I believe him when he says this because none of the other shards have a name that's just an emotion like Odium does. It actually threw me off pretty hard when he was revealed because it seemed pretty out of place. I'm sticking with the theory that Adonalsium was pretty ticked when they killed it, and that influenced the shard. So the theory goes that when they killed Adonalsium, he was an extremely mad witch made Odeum to be more focused on anger than the other passions? I like it and it makes sense but do we see this reflected in any other shard? I'm a bit new to the cosmeare as a whole, I'm trying to catch up but it's slow going. I'm almost done with all of the books so I'm just now starting to dive into theories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriodor Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Starlight said: So the theory goes that when they killed Adonalsium, he was an extremely mad witch made Odeum to be more focused on anger than the other passions? I like it and it makes sense but do we see this reflected in any other shard? I'm a bit new to the cosmeare as a whole, I'm trying to catch up but it's slow going. I'm almost done with all of the books so I'm just now starting to dive into theories. I don't think it would be reflected in any other shard, because he's the only shard of emotion. Except for maybe Whimsy, but even that isn't just an emotion like Odium is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidWayne Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 11/20/2020 at 0:55 PM, Oltux72 said: We have a clue in Warlight. So what happens if you combine war and growth? Should we name that Shard Empire or Conquest? Faced with that prospect I would take Hoid's attitude. Better burn that solar system than let this happen. It seems to me that war + growth = destruction You would need Ambition to mix with war to get to empire/conquest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacman Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, KidWayne said: It seems to me that war + growth = destruction You would need Ambition to mix with war to get to empire/conquest. Why would adding growing to the mix make it in to something that’s the opposite of growing? Fighting a war to expand (grow) what you own is pretty much the definition of empire/conquest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Starlight said: So the theory goes that when they killed Adonalsium, he was an extremely mad witch made Odeum to be more focused on anger than the other passions? I like it and it makes sense but do we see this reflected in any other shard? I'm a bit new to the cosmeare as a whole, I'm trying to catch up but it's slow going. I'm almost done with all of the books so I'm just now starting to dive into theories. But he wasn’t. He was resigned and understanding and not angry at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriodor Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: But he wasn’t. He was resigned and understanding and not angry at all. You can be resigned to your fate and still mad that it's happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 Just now, seriodor said: You can be resigned to your fate and still mad that it's happening. He was understanding and accepting. No sense of anger was described. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriodor Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said: He was understanding and accepting. No sense of anger was described. I would say that it could still mean it was mad even if Rysn couldn't tell from the mural, but I just went back and read that part again and I was reminded that she also said confident. Which ties in better with the idea that Adonalsium knew it was gonna be shattered and this all according to plan. That still leaves Odium as a pretty weird Shard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 I think it would be Crusade and would ally greatly with Taravangians aim. Honor : To bind the Cosmere with laws and stop chaos . Cultivation : To encourage ppl to grow but that can only occur in peace and stability. Odium : To use the wrath to level the ones opposing u. Honor and Cultivation would temper Odium's destructive tendencies . While Odium and its focus on emotions would stop Honor from growing too restrictive . Hmmmm I wonder if this is what Cultivation is planning. To unite the three Shards under Taravangian and aid him in the Crusade. No idea how things would work following the end of the War for the Heavens tho. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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