Kal's fight (spoilers for RoW)

[neshua_kadal]

So any theories on how Kal went super saiyan rage mode even with the radiant blockers in place and not saying the 4th ideal towards the end of his fight with Lezian? What power was he using to move with such speed? 

[Kingsdaughter613]

9 minutes ago, neshua_kadal said:

So any theories on how Kal went super saiyan rage mode even with the radiant blockers in place and not saying the 4th ideal towards the end of his fight with Lezian? What power was he using to move with such speed? 

Odium’s, from what his eyes indicate.

[neshua_kadal]

But how? He has no connection to Odium. The dreams he saw were because of Moash's mutual connection, no? Does that give him that power? Regardless, his super speed is something not yet seen in Roshar. Which surge can grant that? I don't think gravitation can make him fast, right?

[Ramona Tehradin]

(This I mentioned in another Thread) 

• Even I was terrified when he went on full berserker mode of anguish-radiant rage, and his eyes started glowing...I think this was the moment Odium wanted to corrupt his soul because if I recall correct, Odium/Rayse wanted to have Kaladin as his champion and there were fracture in his soul which could be expanded so that Odium could Connect...but also, I remember Odium mentioning that they (Vyre/Moash) has to do something about Kaladin since he was a 'bigger problem than anticipated' and 'will continue to do so' so, they have to 'deal with him'. And Odium foresaw something/s about Kaladin which clearly rattled him. 
• Rayse/Odium failed to claim Dalinar, lost the Tower and Stormblessed. 
• Vyre keeps repeating a single line that Kaladin 'can't be killed' because he's 'Stormblessed, the force of storms' and 'you cannot kill a storm'. IIRC, this line was repeated...more than 10 times in book. 
• Which brings us back to part that Kaladin has some influence over highstorms, as proved by him deflecting in whole windspren-archangel manner which made Syl surprised. Earlier I thought he made a pressure vacuum using Adhesion but then Syl said that this was something she never recalled of having which means this could be something else? 
• To add, Syl does mention that there are a lot of things Radiants were never able to discover about their powers due to constant wars. But Kaladin seems to have extreme control even during rage that he brandizes Reverse Lashing-Full Lashing combo to ripp Pursuer. That was terrifying to read. 
• But I would be wrong if I don't admit that there are a lot of things about Kaladin that is not 'normal' for any Radiants. For example, his spidery senses while creeping in silence through Urithiru. 
• Cryptics were clearly wary of him, as Elhokar mentioned the 'shadows go away' whenever only Kaladin appears. (In WoR)
• He's always symbolized with storms, something not even Dalinar has been mentioned.   

For all I know, he might become a grander character traversing through Cosmere. 

 

[scm288]

11 hours ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

(This I mentioned in another Thread) 

• Even I was terrified when he went on full berserker mode of anguish-radiant rage, and his eyes started glowing...I think this was the moment Odium wanted to corrupt his soul because if I recall correct, Odium/Rayse wanted to have Kaladin as his champion and there were fracture in his soul which could be expanded so that Odium could Connect...but also, I remember Odium mentioning that they (Vyre/Moash) has to do something about Kaladin since he was a 'bigger problem than anticipated' and 'will continue to do so' so, they have to 'deal with him'. And Odium foresaw something/s about Kaladin which clearly rattled him. 
• Rayse/Odium failed to claim Dalinar, lost the Tower and Stormblessed. 
• Vyre keeps repeating a single line that Kaladin 'can't be killed' because he's 'Stormblessed, the force of storms' and 'you cannot kill a storm'. IIRC, this line was repeated...more than 10 times in book. 
• Which brings us back to part that Kaladin has some influence over highstorms, as proved by him deflecting in whole windspren-archangel manner which made Syl surprised. Earlier I thought he made a pressure vacuum using Adhesion but then Syl said that this was something she never recalled of having which means this could be something else? 
• To add, Syl does mention that there are a lot of things Radiants were never able to discover about their powers due to constant wars. But Kaladin seems to have extreme control even during rage that he brandizes Reverse Lashing-Full Lashing combo to ripp Pursuer. That was terrifying to read. 
• But I would be wrong if I don't admit that there are a lot of things about Kaladin that is not 'normal' for any Radiants. For example, his spidery senses while creeping in silence through Urithiru. 
• Cryptics were clearly wary of him, as Elhokar mentioned the 'shadows go away' whenever only Kaladin appears. (In WoR)
• He's always symbolized with storms, something not even Dalinar has been mentioned.   

For all I know, he might become a grander character traversing through Cosmere. 

 

It's also been made clear, from Words of Brandon, that Kaladin's title of "Son of Tanavast" (used by the Stormfather) is not without significance.

There is definitely more going on here.

[Subvisual Haze]

He's the embodiment of the Rhythm of War, Honor and Passion united.

[nonix]

I'm glad that someone else brought this up. I wonder if we will see Kaladin continue to be able to fight this well. I feel like this is a moment that showed that perhaps radiants could be on equal footing of the Heralds. We see Taln grabbing the darts out of the air, Nale grab an arrow out of the air, Ishar easily able to fight 5 windrunners at once. Clearly they have speed and reflex abilities that go beyond the average radiant or human. If wonder if Kaladin in this state would have been able to take on Heralds.

I'm curious to see what comes of this in the future. Will Kaladin continue to be this fast? 

PS. The ripping off of Lezian's head was amazing and so satisfying. This is such an interesting use of the surge that we haven't seen before and I look forward to seeing Kaladin attempt to use this ability in battle in the future, probably less gruesomely, but still to perhaps disarm opponents or actually force them to move. Could Kaladin use adhesion to essentially pull a large group of people?

[The-only-game]

2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

He's the embodiment of the Rhythm of War, Honor and Passion united.

Would be awesome but too similar to Mistborn I think.

[+Child of Hodor]

The “you can’t kill a storm” being repeated over and over in this book makes me think someone will try to do just that with either the Everstorm or the Stormfather. 

If El cans develop anti-Stormlight and use it against Dalinar’s spren before the contest that would be a huge blow to his chances. 

The Everstorm needs to be dealt with somehow. 

[AlejandroTeodoro]

On 20/11/2020 at 9:02 AM, Ramona Tehradin said:

(This I mentioned in another Thread) 

• Even I was terrified when he went on full berserker mode of anguish-radiant rage, and his eyes started glowing...I think this was the moment Odium wanted to corrupt his soul because if I recall correct, Odium/Rayse wanted to have Kaladin as his champion and there were fracture in his soul which could be expanded so that Odium could Connect...but also, I remember Odium mentioning that they (Vyre/Moash) has to do something about Kaladin since he was a 'bigger problem than anticipated' and 'will continue to do so' so, they have to 'deal with him'. And Odium foresaw something/s about Kaladin which clearly rattled him. 
• Rayse/Odium failed to claim Dalinar, lost the Tower and Stormblessed. 
• Vyre keeps repeating a single line that Kaladin 'can't be killed' because he's 'Stormblessed, the force of storms' and 'you cannot kill a storm'. IIRC, this line was repeated...more than 10 times in book. 
• Which brings us back to part that Kaladin has some influence over highstorms, as proved by him deflecting in whole windspren-archangel manner which made Syl surprised. Earlier I thought he made a pressure vacuum using Adhesion but then Syl said that this was something she never recalled of having which means this could be something else? 
• To add, Syl does mention that there are a lot of things Radiants were never able to discover about their powers due to constant wars. But Kaladin seems to have extreme control even during rage that he brandizes Reverse Lashing-Full Lashing combo to ripp Pursuer. That was terrifying to read. 
• But I would be wrong if I don't admit that there are a lot of things about Kaladin that is not 'normal' for any Radiants. For example, his spidery senses while creeping in silence through Urithiru. 
• Cryptics were clearly wary of him, as Elhokar mentioned the 'shadows go away' whenever only Kaladin appears. (In WoR)
• He's always symbolized with storms, something not even Dalinar has been mentioned.   

For all I know, he might become a grander character traversing through Cosmere. 

 

I agree that there is lot of things about him that are not normal even for Radiant.

On the one hand he struggle more than any other radiant, he had the hardest punch of life (with Dalinar close) and the most Lilit situation. On the other he recover from all in the crazy and totally heroic ways. In this book there is this part were Dalinar thought something like he has faith in Kaladin even if he seems to have 0 options.

Also Vyre/Odium seems to see a big threat in him, because they put input in make him fall and also they give to him much more importance than to Janash (while she is already 4th ideal and he o my 3th)

And finally, how many times he is call son of Tanavast/Honor? I think more than any other character.

And laterally, the only Herald who really can not Come back is Jezrien, so maybe there is something like Kaladin is taking his place...

[AlejandroTeodoro]

On 21/11/2020 at 1:16 AM, Child of Hodor said:

The “you can’t kill a storm” being repeated over and over in this book makes me think someone will try to do just that with either the Everstorm or the Stormfather. 

If El cans develop anti-Stormlight and use it against Dalinar’s spren before the contest that would be a huge blow to his chances. 

The Everstorm needs to be dealt with somehow. 

I hope it’s not possible to kill StormFather with anti-stormlight just putting a knife in the Storm. It’s look such a cruel and simple solution, and also probably would kill the whole Roshar since high storm are crucial for the continent

[Mason Wheeler]

On 11/20/2020 at 4:22 PM, The-only-game said:

Would be awesome but too similar to Mistborn I think.

Yes, it would be a shame if something in this series -- in which we have heavy political intrigue and plotting between multiple factions, magical devices whose powers are influenced by specific metals, an entire human-adjacent species being hijacked to serve as pawns to an evil god of destruction, principal characters ascending to pick up the powers of Shards whose Vessels have died, solid material falling from the sky on a regular basis which needs to be cleaned away so it doesn't build up, and a backstory involving people using magic so powerful it can influence entire planets for the worse -- were to show up that resembles some element from Mistborn! 

[StormingTexan]

I agree there is something about Kaladin. Even not considering the berserker mode he also was only one of two (we pretty much know why Lift was) that remained awake after the tower was corrupted. It is easy to dismiss this as "he was close to the 4th ideal" but I think with everything else it further contributes to the theory he is something else besides a KR. 

[Subvisual Haze]

Kal's already practicing the job of being a Herald thanks to Moash forcing him spend his dreams on Braize being tortured.

[NameIess]

I just figured that that it was "natural" in so much as Kaladin's years of combat training, nahel bond, and rage can be considered natural.

[Subvisual Haze]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:56 AM, AlejandroTeodoro said:

And finally, how many times he is call son of Tanavast/Honor? I think more than any other character.

He's the only character to be called the Son/Child of Tanavast by the Stormfather.  And what's more the Stormfather has called him that once in every single book (thanks ebook search!).  Son/Child of Honor seems a more generic title that multiple characters are given (including Kaladin).  

I think it comes down to the difference between the Honor shard's pure intent (follow rules, keep oaths, letter of the law etc.), and how Tanavast the person expressed that intent.

Quote

“Did he … care about what we felt?” Dalinar asked. “Honor, the Almighty? Did he truly care about men’s pain?”

He did. Then, I didn’t understand why, but now I do. Odium lies when he claims to have sole ownership of passion. The Stormfather paused. I remember … at the end … Honor was more obsessed with oaths. There were times when the oath itself was more important than the meaning behind it. But he was not a passionless monster. He loved humankind. He died defending you.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 1039). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 I think the point is that Kaladin as a person reminds the Stormfather of Tanavast.  Not just honorable, but also passionate.

[Eingradd]

2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

He's the only character to be called the Son/Child of Tanavast by the Stormfather.  And what's more the Stormfather has called him that once in every single book (thanks ebook search!).  Son/Child of Honor seems a more generic title that multiple characters are given (including Kaladin).  

I think it comes down to the difference between the Honor shard's pure intent (follow rules, keep oaths, letter of the law etc.), and how Tanavast the person expressed that intent.

 I think the point is that Kaladin as a person reminds the Stormfather of Tanavast.  Not just honorable, but also passionate.

I was thinking it might be more literal, that Kaladin and one of his parents (probably Hesina, if I had to guess) are descendants of Tanavast. We know that Tanavast and Cultivation's Vessel were lovers, so they could have born a child. I don't know if we know what happens if two vessels bearing a shard mate, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the child either bearing no investiture or a mixture of both shards, and said line growing weaker over the generations.

Spoiler

Considering Lift was also one of the two people left awake when Urithiru was taken, and her reason for remaining awake was speculated to be due to her drawing upon Lifelight, Cultivation's light, this might also explain why Kaladin was left awake, if feeling extremely weakened; he has ties not only to Honor with his Nahel Bond, but also from Cultivation as an ancestor. I also suspect that the reason she was able to awaken Teft by using Regrowth was because she was using Lifelight, not Stormlight..

I haven't really put a lot of thought into this though, this is just my initial thinking. I also recall people speaking of Kaladin before he bonded with Syl as though he was an incredible warrior, though the battle at the opening of Way of Kings where he participated in Amaram's army was likely when Syl was already watching him.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Eingradd
Slight formatting issues, changed "parent" to "ancestor"

[Ailvara]

9 minutes ago, Eingradd said:

I was thinking it might be more literal, that Kaladin and one of his parents (probably Hesina, if I had to guess) are descendants of Tanavast. We know that Tanavast and Cultivation's Vessel were lovers, so they could have born a child. I don't know if we know what happens if two vessels bearing a shard mate, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the child either bearing no investiture or a mixture of both shards, and said line growing weaker over the generations.

  Hide contents

Considering Lift was also one of the two people left awake when Urithiru was taken, and her reason for remaining awake was speculated to be due to her drawing upon Lifelight, Cultivation's light, this might also explain why Kaladin was left awake, if feeling extremely weakened; he has ties not only to Honor with his Nahel Bond, but also from Cultivation as an ancestor. I also suspect that the reason she was able to awaken Teft by using Regrowth was because she was using Lifelight, not Stormlight..

I haven't really put a lot of thought into this though, this is just my initial thinking. I also recall people speaking of Kaladin before he bonded with Syl as though he was an incredible warrior, though the battle at the opening of Way of Kings where he participated in Amaram's army was likely when Syl was already watching him.

There've been WOBs for both. Lirin and Hesina are Kaladin's biological parents. The second one, IIRC it implied that his abilities are augmented due the Connection to Syl through Spiritual Realm which of transcends time.

[Valigus]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:41 PM, Ailvara said:

There've been WOBs for both. Lirin and Hesina are Kaladin's biological parents. The second one, IIRC it implied that his abilities are augmented due the Connection to Syl through Spiritual Realm which of transcends time.

So then maybe the question that needs to be asked is what will kaladin become in the future that gives him these insane powers, what in the future will allow him to deflect high storms, channel the power of what seemed to be the rythm of war to go into a super rage and probably take on heralds etc...

 

i think cultivation has been setting many of the characters up to ascend as shards and that kaladin will become odium, honor, war, or more likely valor 

or he may become a herald like entity

Edited December 26, 2020 by Valigus