Who is Sixteen? [Discussion]

[AirsickHighlander]

1 hour ago, esotericpizza said:

Is it possible that Sixteen is from First of the Sun? They have a number based naming system, but I don't know if they have worldhopping ability at this point in the timeline.

Unfortunately I'm fairly certain they don't, at least not on a large scale. Sixth of the Dusk takes place at the far end of the cosmere timeline, long after everything else, and they get freaked out by

Spoiler

scadrian aliens.

Although, the new chapter shows that

Spoiler

Sixth himself might be aware of an entrance to the cognitive realm, so i suppose it's still possible a few lone travelers may have made it out.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by AirsickHighlander
forgot to include quoted post and spoiler tags

[+robardin]

OK, I read up on the Coppermind wikia about Rosharan date/time keeping and I think my Allomantic Pulser idea has more merit.

My estimate earlier had inadvertently been using an Earthlike calendar, but a Rosharan year has 500 days, divided into 10 months of 50 days each; these are ten five-day weeks at 20 hours per day, and in total is equivalent to 1.1 Earth years. And presumably, being in the Shadesmar of Roshar, the honorspren of Lasting Integrity are using this same system.

So if Sixteen has been in Lasting Integrity for 20 Rosharan months, that would be 2 years = 1,000 days = 62 "pulses" of 16 days. Not as many as I'd figured before. At 5 minutes per pulse, it'd only be a little over five hours of his time so far. Stretch it out a bit to like 7-8 minutes per time slice, and it's still pretty reasonable, he'd have been doing this for about 7-8 hours.

Each "pulse" has him come out of his little hut to "hurry" (not "stroll" or "walk") through the sculpture garden to look for something, either recording data in his notes or comparing against them to look for something, before going back in for another sixteen day time skip. He's not out very long before Shallan grabs him, which if his mission were critical, he'd probably be more upset about making sure he completed his task for this time-slice before running back into his hut.

In fact, maybe his allotted "time slice" to do what he has to do is also preset, like if he's not himself a Pulser, but has has some kind of Allomancy driven device (based on one of those Allomantic "primer cubes")? A device that can Pulse away a pre-programmed 16 days at a time, with a delay setting to give him a short window of time to do some task and return for the next Pulse (or else he's stranded for 16 days). He must have turned it on after arriving, and so can turn it off to leave Lasting Integrity when whatever he's doing is done with, but he also can't stop or adjust the timer without being at the device to do it.

We see that he "hurried" out of his hut through the statue park, and shouted something at Shallan she didn't understand when she grabbed him by the shoulder, then "fled" (ran) back into his home. Perhaps what he shouted was basically "let go of me, I have to get back in there before the Pulser device fires again!"

Edited November 23, 2020 by robardin

[spitfireky]

58 minutes ago, robardin said:

OK, I read up on the Coppermind wikia about Rosharan date/time keeping and I think my Allomantic Pulser idea has more merit.

My estimate earlier had inadvertently been using an Earthlike calendar, but a Rosharan year has 500 days, divided into 10 months of 50 days each; these are ten five-day weeks at 20 hours per day, and in total is equivalent to 1.1 Earth years. And presumably, being in the Shadesmar of Roshar, the honorspren of Lasting Integrity are using this same system.

So if Sixteen has been in Lasting Integrity for 20 Rosharan months, that would be 2 years = 1,000 days = 62 "pulses" of 16 days. Not as many as I'd figured before. At 5 minutes per pulse, it'd only be a little over five hours of his time so far. Stretch it out a bit to like 7-8 minutes per time slice, and it's still pretty reasonable, he'd have been doing this for about 7-8 hours.

Each "pulse" has him come out of his little hut to "hurry" (not "stroll" or "walk") through the sculpture garden to look for something, either recording data in his notes or comparing against them to look for something, before going back in for another sixteen day time skip. He's not out very long before Shallan grabs him, which if his mission were critical, he'd probably be more upset about making sure he completed his task for this time-slice before running back into his hut.

In fact, maybe his allotted "time slice" to do what he has to do is also preset, like if he's not himself a Pulser, but has has some kind of Allomancy driven device (based on one of those Allomantic "primer cubes")? A device that can Pulse away a pre-programmed 16 days at a time, with a delay setting to give him a short window of time to do some task and return for the next Pulse (or else he's stranded for 16 days). He must have turned it on after arriving, and so can turn it off to leave Lasting Integrity when whatever he's doing is done with, but he also can't stop or adjust the timer without being at the device to do it.

We see that he "hurried" out of his hut through the statue park, and shouted something at Shallan she didn't understand when she grabbed him by the shoulder, then "fled" (ran) back into his home. Perhaps what he shouted was basically "let go of me, I have to get back in there before the Pulser device fires again!"

Are there any known Pulsers besides Marasi at this point? If SA 1-5 takes place before MB Era 2 Sixteen would be easy to spot in the books.

[+robardin]

11 minutes ago, spitfireky said:

Are there any known Pulsers besides Marasi at this point? If SA 1-5 takes place before MB Era 2 Sixteen would be easy to spot in the books.

She can't have been the first Pulser in Scadrian history, yeah? Could be anybody.

And like I surmised, if Sixteen is from the Southern Continent, he might even be armed with technology to do the Pulsing rather than doing it himself, which would further explain both the extremely regular periodicity of his appearances and his apparent urgency in hurrying out and then dashing back into his little hut.

Or an agent, Scadrian or not (but from another world appearing "Shin" to Shallan, but not Nalthis as she's just seen the caravaners from there and considered them having a distinct appearance), aligned with a worldhopping group like the Seventeenth Shard who has access to cross-Cosmere technology. Riino the Elantrian also appeared "Shin" to Kaladin, after all.

That's another possibility, I guess: Selish technology powering the right Aon could probably duplicate a cadmium bubble effect?

Edited November 23, 2020 by robardin

[danex]

My personal theory is that they are a Kandra of some sort, but I do like that pulser theory. 
My evidence is this:
The number 16, while being important Cosmere-wide, has always been extra prevalent on Scadrial. 
Kandra can go a very long time without needing food.
Kandra cannot create hair. Sixteen is bald. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Dannex

[spitfireky]

Just now, robardin said:

She can't have been the first Pulser in Scadrian history, yeah? Could be anybody.

And like I surmised, if Sixteen is from the Southern Continent, he might even be armed with technology to do the Pulsing rather than doing it himself, which would further explain both the extremely regular periodicity of his appearances and his apparent urgency in hurrying out and then dashing back into his little hut.

The idea that Sixteen is Scadrian (even Northern or Southern) works even more when you consider that the number sixteen has significance on the planet, too, since Preservation maybe modeled the sixteen metals from Ado..

[Hurricane_Privileged]

My gut feeling is Sixteen is Szeth's father. We got a lot of talk of him this book from Szeth -most likely setting up the next book, im guessing- but I still have this feeling that we have seen Szeth's father already

[Misterakko]

Ah.. totally wild guess here. We know that shards can create avatars of theirs and send them to other worlds. We don't know much more than that, AFAIK. We also know that Harmony is getting interested in the rest of the Cosmere - he's corresponding with Hoid, after all. So, could this be an avatar of his? His vessel was bald and pale, after all. And, being a shard, he would be somewhat insensible to time and possibly not needing to eat and drink and that other thing which happens after eating and drinking.

And the notes? After all, we don't know how Hoid and Harmony are corresponding. Maybe they have a dead drop in Lasting Integrity.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Misterakko
Typo.

[+Bzhydack]

Another wild theory:

He is Ashynite.

All humans on Roshar are descendents from Ashyn Humans, and Shin are changed least, so they will share similar look with Ashynite.

Also, he is bald and looks sick. Could be Incubator with some Ashynite disease related to time.

What he is doing? No idea.

[bmcclure7]

On 11/19/2020 at 0:25 PM, GudThymes said:

Anyone have thoughts or theories for who this random Shin man in Lasting Integrity is?

Mine is Tanavast as a Cognitive Shadow.

 A kondra and a  Avatar of the survivor. Tanavast  was not shin. 

 

On 11/29/2020 at 2:12 PM, Misterakko said:

Ah.. totally wild guess here. We know that shards can create avatars of theirs and send them to other worlds. We don't know much more than that, AFAIK. We also know that Harmony is getting interested in the rest of the Cosmere - he's corresponding with Hoid, after all. So, could this be an avatar of his? His vessel was bald and pale, after all. And, being a shard, he would be somewhat insensible to time and possibly not needing to eat and drink and that other thing which happens after eating and drinking.

And the notes? After all, we don't know how Hoid and Harmony are corresponding. Maybe they have a dead drop in Lasting Integrity.

 I actually think it's an avatar of the survivor. 

 

On 11/23/2020 at 9:55 AM, Dannex said:

My personal theory is that they are a Kandra of some sort, but I do like that pulser theory. 
My evidence is this:
The number 16, while being important Cosmere-wide, has always been extra prevalent on Scadrial. 
Kandra can go a very long time without needed food.
Kandra cannot create hair. Sixteen is bald. 

 I also think that he is a kandra  and an avatar of the survivor. 

[+Oltux72]

13 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Another wild theory:

He is Ashynite.

All humans on Roshar are descendents from Ashyn Humans, and Shin are changed least, so they will share similar look with Ashynite.

Also, he is bald and looks sick. Could be Incubator with some Ashynite disease related to time.

That makes an extreme amount of sense.

13 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

What he is doing? No idea.

Writing reports? They could have one in every city.

50 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 I actually think it's an avatar of the survivor. 

Surprised  by an amater assassin and then running away?

[bmcclure7]

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That makes an extreme amount of sense.

Writing reports? They could have one in every city.

Surprised  by an amater assassin and then running away?

I should elaborate.   I think he is using emotional allomance  To take control over kondra agents through out the cosmere.  I believe that 16 is one such  I don't believe That the survivor was controlling him at that particular point. 

[+Oltux72]

57 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

I should elaborate.   I think he is using emotional allomance  To take control over kondra agents through out the cosmere.  I believe that 16 is one such  I don't believe That the survivor was controlling him at that particular point. 

A Kandra who has centuries of experience letting himself be surprised by an amateur? And why would a Kandra draw attention to his arcane powers? And why would a Kandra look foreign? Or alternatively, if the Kandra is an avatar of Kelsier, why does he look like an old, bald man?
And if Kelsier wants an agent in Lasting Integrity why does he not send a trader or an official delegation?

The problem with Sixteen is not only that you have to find somebody who is capable of this feat, but also somebody who does not care or must disregard that his feat is blowing his cover. I mean sure, this could be Cultivation's youngest son, who has a drug problem, waiting for mommy to bail him out, but why the disguise? Is he so broke that he cannot afford food? But why let Shallan surprise him?

 

[bmcclure7]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

A Kandra who has centuries of experience letting himself be surprised by an amateur? And why would a Kandra draw attention to his arcane powers? And why would a Kandra look foreign? Or alternatively, if the Kandra is an avatar of Kelsier, why does he look like an old, bald man?
And if Kelsier wants an agent in Lasting Integrity why does he not send a trader or an official delegation?

The problem with Sixteen is not only that you have to find somebody who is capable of this feat, but also somebody who does not care or must disregard that his feat is blowing his cover. I mean sure, this could be Cultivation's youngest son, who has a drug problem, waiting for mommy to bail him out, but why the disguise? Is he so broke that he cannot afford food? But why let Shallan surprise him?

 

Who do you think it is?

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

Who do you think it is?

I guess it is an Elantriann, just based on the baldness, but I may just as well be wrong.

[bmcclure7]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I guess it is an Elantriann, just based on the baldness, but I may just as well be wrong.

 I would say Elantriann too if it wasn't for the 16 days

[GroundPetrel]

I can buy kandra, Elantrian, or Pulser; my first thought was Elantrian, personally.  

[Honorspring]

Could be a dragon

[Whatsit4]

What if the name Sixteen is a mistranslation from another language and only sounds like Sixteen to Shallan? 

When his name is first mentioned it is in Quotes and says that is what he calls himself, (RoW Ch 75 Page 864).  What if he is using that to his advantage to give himself cover for why he only shows up every 16 days. It also give the Honor Spren a reason to be amused by him rather than suspicious..

 I am trying to find how to pronounce 16 from glyphs and to see if any other characters names sound similar to it. I think it would be pronounced Jesash or if he is being tricky and said his real name backwards Hsasej.   I used the glyphs section in the Coppermind  (glyphs article, numbers section) to come up with this. I haven't been able to find any name that starts with J, Y or H that might sound similar to it though, yet.

I wonder if Sixteen is studying the statues because they are made of stone but seem to have clothes rippling in the breeze. Is this realated to Ars Arcanum about Stoneshaping and it's Connection? 

The other thing I am considering are the Ten Esscences that relate to 1 and 6.This is because the individual numbers make up the sound of the full number, based on the example of 1173 in the coppermind..

Lots of Spoilers for Warbreaker and Mistborn Era 2 particurlly,.with these theories though

Spoiler

1 = Jes: Inhalation Gemstone- Sapphire,
Inhalation with makes me think of breath. Vasher/Zahel says at the end of Warbreaker the Returned can change their form when he talks Vivenna about the royal locks. He also doesn't appear Shin as a ardent. I don't know which one of the Returned it could be though or What Endowment would want with the Honor Spren. 

6 = Shash (-ash): Blood, Gemstone: Garnet
Blood makes me think of Bleeder/Paalm. Since SA 1-5 is before Mistborn Era two it might be a stretch. But I like this one a lot! The biggest hole is that AFAIK she is not referring to herself as Bleeder at this time so the blood and bleeder connection is a moot point.
 

However:
A Kandra agent does make a good case though. It fits with the number 16 and the Kandra guesses others have made. A Kandra can be controlled by Harmony directly at this point too. Harmony also talks about trying to create a sword that can defend and protect in the epigraphs. Would studying the Honor Spren and their garden help him in this effort somehow. A Kandra could be an Allomancer or Feruchemist or even a compunder since all they would need an an allomantic spike or two. Which fits with other theories above.

Since it is before Mistborn ear two Could Autonomy/Trell/Bavadin have noticed this Kandra during these trips? This agent is out of the direct protection of Harmony in the Rosharan Cognitive ream,.and therefore could open to influence of other Shards. Would Autonomy have been driven to intervene at the direct control of another being by a Shard? Could this be how Paalm starts to become Bleeder later?

Also since Kelsier is the head of the ghostbloods and is most likely still making Hemelurgic spikes, and we know he has avatars, the 16 days may make sense. This is due to two reason I can think of. 1) Kelsire can only control the kandra for a short period of time across such large distances. 2) short times every 16 days prevent Harmony from taking contorl back from Kelsier. It could also be the revers with Harmony in control and Kelsier or other shards trying to gain control.

 

 

[Waffles]

Honor has 10s going on

10 heralds, 10 honorblades, 10 surges, etc.

Odium has a 9s theme. 9 passions, 9 voidbringer sects, 9 unmade (odiums 10th day 10th hour thing gives me many questions)

I'm unclear what cultivations number is but if I had to guess it would be 5, based on the 5 levels of oaths. Though I think it would be hinted at by horneater chapters in the books texts

Warbreaker note:

Spoiler

 Endowment is very clearly #5 so lol

the 16 motif is stands out as the direct influence of the 16th shard whatever that shard is. If anyone knows the numbers for various other shards we could possibly rule them out if they arent 16 or a pair doesnt add/multiply up to 16.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Waffles
9 unmade also and whoops

[Kingsdaughter613]

52 minutes ago, Waffles said:

Honor has 10s going on

10 heralds, 10 honorblades, 10 surges, etc.

Odium has a 9s theme. 9 passions, 9 voidbringer sects, 9 unmade (odiums 10th day 10th hour thing gives me many questions)

I'm unclear what cultivations number is but if I had to guess it would be 5, based on the 5 levels of oaths. Though I think it would be hinted at by horneater chapters in the books texts

Warbreaker note:

  Hide contents

 Endowment is very clearly #5 so lol

the 16 motif is stands out as the direct influence of the 16th shard whatever that shard is. If anyone knows the numbers for various other shards we could possibly rule them out if they arent 16 or a pair doesnt add/multiply up to 16.

 

 

16 is Scadrial’s number. Also the Cosmere’s as a whole.

[Waffles]

7 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

16 is Scadrial’s number. Also the Cosmere’s as a whole.

that lends credence to it being an allomancer doesnt it?

[Kingsdaughter613]

5 minutes ago, Waffles said:

that lends credence to it being an allomancer doesnt it?

Or Kandra. I think we can eliminate Koloss though...

[Voscaia]

Weird theory based on a discussion over in the Mistborn section:

Sixteen is Spook in a chromium bubble biding his time for Era2...

Flame on!

[Honorspring]

On 1/13/2021 at 2:30 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

16 is Scadrial’s number. Also the Cosmere’s as a whole.

Or possibly the host of Adonalsium, separated from his power. So far we have not seen any effects from the Dawnshards which we know are the weapons used to "kill god himself". But wouldn't killing a god and removing his power basically be the same thing? And after being permeated with the infinite power of all 16 Shards, I think it would be reasonable to assume that the host, if left alive after the shattering, would be immortal, bound to a strict regimen based on the events of his "death", and why he was so scared when confronted by Shallan because he's terrified of conflict after having been reduced to a human