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Zedseayou

What's Kaladin's secret sauce? [RoW + cosmere]

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Oh wait, just in case there weren't more stuff...there are more stuff. 

Wit's special interest in Kaladin seems to be having more than just stories to inspire. Of course, whatever Wit does its for a reason so its natural to assume that each part of the story has something to do with Wit's past experiences. We can ponder upon the fact that Kaladin is the only character whom Wit has spoken three stories, something no other character in SA was bested upon. Added to that, the Trailman's flute was given to Kaladin for a reason and it was returned to him again for a reason....And Wit coming in to Braize where Kaladin was tormented by Odium through his Connection with Moash to give in. Wit did say that it wasn't fair for Odium and then went on to propel Kaladin. 

This brings us to being Son/Child of Tanavast theory. 

We all know that Tanavast was present during which Adonlasium was splintered and then he accepted the Shard of Honor and Ascended to it. Wit was also present and seems to having kinship with Tanavast and I guess it all connected one way or another. Maybe Wit sees a fragment of his former friend in face of a special hero who seems to inspire thousands through his honorable selfless embodiment. 

This Son/Child of Tanavast means a lot more than people give credit for, something we need to investigate since the time of Splintering. 

Edited by Ramona Tehradin
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4 minutes ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

Maybe Wit sees a fragment of his former friend in face of a special hero who seems to inspire thousands through his honorable selfless embodiment. 

I did just notice again a line in chapter 111:

Quote

You don’t particularly like anyone, Dalinar noted.

Not true. There was a human who made me laugh once, long ago. I was somewhat fond of him.

The Stormfather presumably has some of Tanavast's memories, so I assumed that this meant our lovely Wit :)

Edited by Zedseayou
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Was Son of Tanavast confirmed to be a unique title for Kaladin?

I always assumed it was a term for humans/Radiants/Windrunners.

(first because he sort of adopted them, second because he led them, and the third because they were the 'closest' to him)

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On 11/19/2020 at 9:44 PM, dgreene196 said:

My thinking on this was that I believed it referenced Moash's injury.  His strong Connection to Odium and his possession of Jezrien's Honorblade at least made him a strong possibility as Odium's Champion (with some sort of Odium-gifted upgrade, at least).

A key factor in Kaladin maybe not directly connecting to Odium in that scene was that we don't have any hint that his bond with Syl was disrupted.   But, since we get that scene from an external perspective we don't really know.  It certainly seems that, briefly, he received a significant upgrade in terms of his physical speed.  And ripping an enemies head off with a Reverse Lashing isn't really Kaladin's MO.

I agree with others, Odium was looking at Kaladin as his next champion. At the very least he was converting Kaladin to his side. This quote, which I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is, almost states it:

Quote

“He wants me, as he wanted Moash,” Kaladin said. “If he keeps pushing, he’ll have me. So I have to go.”

 

Edited by Nef
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2 hours ago, Sylveris said:

Was Son of Tanavast confirmed to be a unique title for Kaladin?

I always assumed it was a term for humans/Radiants/Windrunners.

(first because he sort of adopted them, second because he led them, and the third because they were the 'closest' to him)

Yes. It's unique for only Kaladin. Brandon confirmed it during Stuttgart signing. Dalinar, Venli and Eshonai are called Son/Child of Honor, Son/Child of Odium but only Kal is called Tanavast. 

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2 hours ago, Nef said:

I agree with others, Odium was looking at Kaladin as his next champion. At the very least he was converting Kaladin to his side. This quote, which I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is, almost states it:

 

He failed. People have been speculating that Kaladin will give in and all, but I don't think they forget that way before, Kaladin was alone and now, just like he used to help people...there are others to help him. That is the importance of their Surge, to bind the knights together. 

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No disagreement here, Odium more or less mentions that he failed to Dalinar.

I think Kaladin swearing the 4th oath was a really big step in his management of his depression/anxiety. It means he's not going see peoples' deaths as a failure.

Also his bond with Syl, it has strengthened so that they're more able to use each other as support. Its almost turning into a healthy marriage, with good communication/sharing of feelings.

Odium's pathway to "converting" Kaladin was through his depression. With what we saw in RoW, I would be surprised if that path ever opens again. Sure Kaladin will always have his ups and downs (he mentions as much), but not to the extent to be exploited by Odium.

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On this same topic, I realized that the strange stuff about Kaladin has the same place in my thoughts as the strange stuff about Shallan. Stuff like: the red hair which is supposed to be a sign of singer ancestry on Roshar, something about her was able to entice a Cryptic to bond her after she'd already killed one, her mental split thing is some weird magical version of dissociative identity disorder that we haven't seen in other lightweavers so its her own thing. There's something strange about those two that is unrelated to the normal investiture stuff we see on Roshar.

Edited by seriodor
removing some erroneous information
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19 minutes ago, seriodor said:

On this same topic, I realized that the strange stuff about Kaladin has the same place in my thoughts as the strange stuff about Shallan. Stuff like: the red hair which is supposed to be a sign of singer ancestry on Roshar, something about her was able to entice a Cryptic to bond her after she'd already killed one, her mental split thing is some weird magical version of dissociative identity disorder that we haven't seen in other lightweavers so its her own thing, also her memoize ability, which the wiki says is a resonance of her lightweaving, but we never see other lightweavers use it. There's something strange about those two that is unrelated to the normal investiture stuff we see on Roshar.

We see another Lightweaver use the memorize resonance in RoW. Stargyle uses it when giving his report to Dalinar on Ishar's camp. 

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9 minutes ago, seriodor said:

also her memoize ability, which the wiki says is a resonance of her lightweaving, but we never see other lightweavers use it.

Pretty sure what Stargyle does is an analogue of Memory:

Quote

The Lightweaving created a view from above, surveying a shoreline landscape. An army camped along the shore, though it didn’t have much discipline. Large groups of men around campfires, no real uniforms. A variety of weapons. Ishar’s troops seemed to have good numbers, however, and they were well-equipped. Their success on the battlefields in this region made Dalinar careful not to underestimate them. They might not have proper uniforms, but these were battle-hardened veterans.

“Here, Brightlord,” Stargyle said—and the image began moving, as if in real life. “I can keep it all in my head, so long as I focus on the colors.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(emphasis mine)

The special thing that Shallan does that none of the other Lightweavers seem to do?

Quote

They led her through the streets quickly, the hood still on. Shallan took over, as she had an incredible—likely supernatural—ability to sense and memorize direction. She mapped their path in her head. Sneaky little cremlings; they led her in a large double loop, ending at a location near where they’d emerged from the cellar.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

This felt so out of place that I made a thread on it:

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/93234-why-does-shallan-have-geolocation/

WRT Kaladin, however, it seems clear that there's some sort of connection (if not Connection) between him and Odium. First is his supernatural talent in combat - now that we know Honor + Odium = War, this feels a lot more telling. Also, Kaladin's passion is one of his main traits:

Quote

“How about this?” she said, holding his eyes. “I promise, solemnly and by the tenth name of the Almighty, that I mean no harm to Adolin or his family. I mean to prevent a disaster. I might be wrong, and I might be misguided, but I vow to you that I’m sincere.”

He stared into her eyes. So intense. She felt a shiver meeting that expression. This was a man of passion.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 839). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Quote

Passionate, with an intense, smoldering resolve. A leashed anger that he used, because he had dominated it. And a certain tempting arrogance. Not the haughty pride of a highlord. Instead, the secure, stable sense of determination that whispered that no matter who you were— or what you did— you could not hurt him. Could not change him.

He was. Like the wind and rocks were.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 936). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Kaladin is certainly not the only one to exhibit passion, but he seems to exemplify it better than virtually anyone. One could also argue that he induces it better than anyone (both in his enemies and his allies) - people are in awe of him, in fear of him, inspired by him - no one is neutral when it comes to Stormblessed.

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5 minutes ago, Seloun said:

The special thing that Shallan does that none of the other Lightweavers seem to do?

This felt so out of place that I made a thread on it:

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/93234-why-does-shallan-have-geolocation/

Huh, you're right about Stargyle also using a version of it. As to her geolocation, I think it was kind of indicated from some of Jasnah's chapters that supernatural positional awareness was an Elsecaller resonance. Like how she knew exactly where she was after she made it back from Shadesmar. Maybe Shallan is Invested enough as a Radiant of the third ideal for her to get some overlap with the Elsecaller resonance, similar to how they can both Soulcast.

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I think he may be a small sliver of honor because that would explain pretty much all the little things that are weird about his abilities.

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Odiums connection to kaladin might not be strong enough without Moash. In mistborn Ruin could speak to crazy people but he needed them to be pierced to controll them properly. 

We also se a significant difference between kolossos and kandra in their ability to resist the controll.

So maybe Kaladin has been using miniscule amounts of odius investiture but his much greater connection to Honor has been protecting him for direct control. 

Another version could be that Kaladin is using Odius investiture by "binding" it with his own Honor.

There's plenty of ways this could work out and Brandon has managed to get this far in his foreshadowing without painting himself into a corner. 

 

I do like the idea of Kaladins awesome sauce being his passion and thus his connection to Odium, it rhymes well with my own idea of the SA endgame being ten (?) Pseudo shards made from a combination of the three Rosharan Shards.

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4 hours ago, Djerf said:I do like the idea of Kaladins awesome sauce being his passion and thus his connection to Odium, it rhymes well with my own idea of the SA endgame being ten (?) Pseudo shards made from a combination of the three Rosharan Shards.

Yeah in that moment i think it had soemthing to do with the rythm of war

but I personally think cultivation has been manipulating characters to take up each shard in the cosmere on roshar, and I think kaladin is either honor or if salient is honor then valor

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On 11/19/2020 at 0:30 AM, Zedseayou said:

Kaladin is especially close to the Fourth Oath, while none of the others are, and this lets him break the suppression

  • I don't love this because there are others with Shardblades (third oath) at the tower I think, and this seems like a very fuzzy boundary. Conscious/not unconscious should be a fairly big separator

 

There could definitely be other things going on. But I think this boundary between oaths might be slightly more defined. In chapter 60 we see Venli try to swear an ideal that is not ready to be accepted. She could say the words, but didn't grasp the meaning behind them (Command with no Intent).

And Dawnshard spoilers:

Spoiler

The Lopen experiences the same thing in chapter 17 of Dawnshard

I think Kaladin is in the exact opposite situation. His ideal is ready to be accepted he just hasn't said it (Intention waiting for a Command). I think this is what is granting him the fourth ideal level passive powers protecting him from the fabrial, but not the active ones. Just like he had the passive power to heal before he actually spoke the first ideal, but only got the active powers when he swore it. Such a late bloomer.

I think Teft's fourth ideal wouldn't have been accepted before the occupation, so he went unconscious. But it would have been accepted when he was fighting Moash because the Intent was there, so he could summon Phendorana as a Shardblade.

Edited by LeahAstonished
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