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Zedseayou

What's Kaladin's secret sauce? [RoW + cosmere]

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I don't think it was ever explicitly explained why Kaladin remained awake through the suppression. Only he, Lift and Venli do of the Radiants in the tower. Lift and Venli have Lifelight/Voidlight weirdness to explain things, but what's up with Kaladin. Ideas:

  • Radiants are particularly attuned to one or other of their Surges, and Kaladin is to Adhesion (which isn't suppressed)
    • Problem: Kaladin hasn't exactly been a prodigy with Adhesion, at least not obviously more so than Gravitation, or compared to other Radiants.
  • Kaladin is especially close to the Fourth Oath, while none of the others are, and this lets him break the suppression
    • I don't love this because there are others with Shardblades (third oath) at the tower I think, and this seems like a very fuzzy boundary. Conscious/not unconscious should be a fairly big separator
  • Kaladin has some special Honor connection stuff going on that we can only speculate about (perhaps via Syl, as one of the original honorspren)

Nothing seems particularly satisfying to me so far. Thoughts?

Edited by Zedseayou
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Just pre-emptive you should probably spoiler tag this or do something along those lines.

My thoughts below + ROW spoilers
 

Spoiler

From memory they pretty explicitly say that it's probably due to Kaladin being close to the fourth oath, which makes sense considering he does actually say it by the end of the book.

That being said I think there is definitely something up with Kaladin that hasn't really been identified yet. My reasons for this are as follows.

  • The classic him being referred to specifically as child of Tanavast not child of Honour by the Stormfather. 
  • Whatever the hell was up with his eyes when he snapped after Teft was killed. (They turned a yellowish Red from memory suggesting some form of investiture corruption or weirdness).
  • At this rate he's probably going to be come the first Windrunner to reach the fifth oath since the fall of Honour, which means he'd be the first fifth oath radiant with Adhesion which is meant to be specially connected to Honour.
  • Just some of the things he's managed to do (when he split the storm during Oathbringer(fairly sure it was Oathbringer) and so on).

 

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Kaladin is almost certainly different from everyone else, including Radiants.  I think it's pretty obvious to assume this from all of the above evidence, and more, especially considering he was the first main character introduced in Stormlight, Brandon's magnum opus.  

 

Nearly every single prediction I made for RoW was completely wrong, except for Kaladin swearing the 4th Ideal, which everyone saw coming, so I don't trust myself to see what's coming anymore.  I could get behind the idea that Kaladin is somehow directly related to Tanavast.  The problem with that theory is that in order for Kaladin to be related to him, there would certainly have to be others.  This seems like a weak theory to me.

 

I'm very curious to know what happened with the red/yellow eyes thing.  "

“His eyes were glowing like a Radiant’s, his face a mask of pain and anguish, but the eyes … she swore the light had a yellowish-red cast to it. Like … like …”

I'm starting to think that during that brief moment of rage and pain, Kaladin had given himself to Odium, similar to Moash.  

 

Honestly, I have no idea what is going on with Kaladin.  

 

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1 hour ago, ShalladinForever said:

I'm very curious to know what happened with the red/yellow eyes thing.  "

“His eyes were glowing like a Radiant’s, his face a mask of pain and anguish, but the eyes … she swore the light had a yellowish-red cast to it. Like … like …”

I'm starting to think that during that brief moment of rage and pain, Kaladin had given himself to Odium, similar to Moash.  

That is what happened. While talking to Taravangian, Odium says that he's angry because he had lost his champlion again. First Dalinar, then Stormblessed.

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Could also be related to his bond with Syl being extremely close (particularly now with her own introspective sadness).

Or it's anticipating Kaladin taking Jezrien's place in the reformed Oathpact.

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3 hours ago, broccoli said:

That is what happened. While talking to Taravangian, Odium says that he's angry because he had lost his champlion again. First Dalinar, then Stormblessed.

My thinking on this was that I believed it referenced Moash's injury.  His strong Connection to Odium and his possession of Jezrien's Honorblade at least made him a strong possibility as Odium's Champion (with some sort of Odium-gifted upgrade, at least).

A key factor in Kaladin maybe not directly connecting to Odium in that scene was that we don't have any hint that his bond with Syl was disrupted.   But, since we get that scene from an external perspective we don't really know.  It certainly seems that, briefly, he received a significant upgrade in terms of his physical speed.  And ripping an enemies head off with a Reverse Lashing isn't really Kaladin's MO.

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13 hours ago, Zedseayou said:

I don't think it was ever explicitly explained why Kaladin remained awake through the suppression. Only he, Lift and Venli do of the Radiants in the tower. Lift and Venli have Lifelight/Voidlight weirdness to explain things, but what's up with Kaladin. Ideas:

  • Radiants are particularly attuned to one or other of their Surges, and Kaladin is to Adhesion (which isn't suppressed)
    • Problem: Kaladin hasn't exactly been a prodigy with Adhesion, at least not obviously more so than Gravitation, or compared to other Radiants.
  • Kaladin is especially close to the Fourth Oath, while none of the others are, and this lets him break the suppression
    • I don't love this because there are others with Shardblades (third oath) at the tower I think, and this seems like a very fuzzy boundary. Conscious/not unconscious should be a fairly big separator
  • Kaladin has some special Honor connection stuff going on that we can only speculate about (perhaps via Syl, as one of the original honorspren)

Nothing seems particularly satisfying to me so far. Thoughts?

Kaladin isn't well-practiced at Adhesion as a Physical Surge, but his natural abilities as a leader certainly suggest an affinity for Spiritual Adhesion/Connection. Definitely not like a Bondsmith, but it certainly seems that he's somewhat unique in that regard. - the Heavenly Ones, for instance, are completely fascinated with his accomplishments.  And, given the praise directed toward Kaladin and Navani, I don't get the impression that the Fused have particularly high opinion of most mortals.

And we know he's been close to the 4th Ideal for awhile (all the swirling Windspren and whatnot).  I don't think the Sibling means that anyone at the 3rd Ideal can resist the Tower's suppression.  They mean that someone really near saying the 4th Ideal could.  And that may be unique to Windrunners because only one of their Surges is suppressed (which is why the Windrunners, in general, were less sedated than the other Orders).

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I believe Raboniel speculates it’s because he’s close to the 4th ideal, so he has more resistance than the rest, but not enough to be immune. 

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22 hours ago, Harkain said:

Just pre-emptive you should probably spoiler tag this or do something along those lines.

My thoughts below + ROW spoilers
 

  Hide contents

From memory they pretty explicitly say that it's probably due to Kaladin being close to the fourth oath, which makes sense considering he does actually say it by the end of the book.

That being said I think there is definitely something up with Kaladin that hasn't really been identified yet. My reasons for this are as follows.

  • The classic him being referred to specifically as child of Tanavast not child of Honour by the Stormfather. 
  • Whatever the hell was up with his eyes when he snapped after Teft was killed. (They turned a yellowish Red from memory suggesting some form of investiture corruption or weirdness).
  • At this rate he's probably going to be come the first Windrunner to reach the fifth oath since the fall of Honour, which means he'd be the first fifth oath radiant with Adhesion which is meant to be specially connected to Honour.
  • Just some of the things he's managed to do (when he split the storm during Oathbringer(fairly sure it was Oathbringer) and so on).

 

  • Yeah, as far as I know, Kaladin's the only character who is called as 'Child of Tanavast' and 'Son of Tanavast' and BS himself confirmed it had some cryptic meaning behind. I don't think that he could be descended as Tanavast's bloodline because that would just be any mundane fantasy trope- slave soldier, becomes hero, becomes a revered figure and then becomes a god. But this has to kept in mind- will he somehow be able to reassemble Honor? Help to splinter Odium? 

 

  • Even I was terrified when he went on full berserker mode of anguish-radiant rage, and his eyes started glowing...I think this was the moment Odium wanted to corrupt his soul because if I recall correct, Odium/Rayse wanted to have Kaladin as his champion and there were fracture in his soul which could be expanded so that Odium could Connect...but also, I remember Odium mentioning that they (Vyre/Moash) has to do something about Kaladin since he was a 'bigger problem than anticipated' and 'will continue to do so' so, they have to 'deal with him'. And Odium foresaw something/s about Kaladin which clearly rattled him. 
  • Vyre keeps repeating a single line that Kaladin 'can't be killed' because he's 'Stormblessed, the force of storms' and 'you cannot kill a storm'. IIRC, this line was repeated...more than 10 times in book. 
  • Which brings us back to part that Kaladin has some influence over highstorms, as proved by him deflecting in whole windspren-archangel manner which made Syl surprised. Earlier I thought he made a pressure vacuum using Adhesion but then Syl said that this was something she never recalled of having which means this could be something else? 

Spoilers: 

Spoiler

When Kaladin speaks 4th Ideal, he makes a huge column of windspren which completely block the highstorm. Hundreds of windspren met the storm and blew it freaking back! Like you FREAKING BLEW A HIGH-FREAKING-STORM BACKKKKK, KALADIN?! 

  • To add, Syl does mention that there are a lot of things Radiants were never able to discover about their powers due to constant wars. But Kaladin seems to have extreme control even during rage that he brandizes Reverse Lashing-Full Lashing combo to ripp Pursuer. That was terrifying to read. 
  • But I would be wrong if I don't admit that there are a lot of things about Kaladin that is not 'normal' for any Radiants. For example, his spidery senses while creeping in silence through Urithiru. 
  • Cryptics were clearly wary of him, as Elhokar mentioned the 'shadows go away' whenever only Kaladin appears. (In WoR)
  • He's always symbolized with storms, something not even Dalinar has been mentioned.                                        

 

  • BS mentioned  his fundamental Stormlight Archive scene/moments he has been waiting to write was in WoR, Book 4 and 5, then 8 and 10. 
  • WOR- Kaladin Speaking Third Ideal and gaining Shardblade. 
  • RoW- It was mentioned that the scene takes place from Chapter 105 to 110. Earlier I thought it was Navani and Sibling thing but it had begun way before. The scene he wanted was Kaladin swearing 4th Ideal and gaining Shardplate, like defeating Pursuer then having people chant 'Stormblessed' with glorysprens around then finding Teft dead then falling into darkness then snapping and going whole beast-mode to bludgeon Pursuer and two more Heavenly Ones, then jumping to storm, then having SFTV live Connection with Tien and then swearing. This must be that scene. 
  • So, its natural to assume that in 5th book we could possibly see Kaladin swearing 5th Ideal.  

 

I also think being 'far enough into oaths' doesn't explain much because even Teft came close to 4th Ideal but remained uh, unconscious until Lift woke him up. Although I don't know if Oaths also have individual levels themselves but even in that case Kaladin seems to be fluctuating, plummeting down and down as grief, depression and fatigue caught up which meant he should be 'bumped down into oaths'...don't know what else to think about. 

Also, there is hinting of some Cosmere futuristic stuff dealing with our certain special character. 

Spoiler

Questioner

Could a Windrunner fly into space?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it actually wouldn’t be that hard, because Windrunners can control pressure, also. And as long as you have Stormlight, you don’t have to breathe. It’s harder for a Skybreaker. Windrunner… As long as you don’t run out of Stormlight, you could travel between planets as a Windrunner if you have enough Stormlight. Wouldn’t be too difficult. Kaladin could probably do it.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020)

Adonalsium knows what's gonna happen next. 

 

Edited by Ramona Tehradin
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I personally think it was because he was closer then Teft to the fourth ideal at the time.  Remember the scene where Teft summons the a blade through supreme effort?  It could just be something like that.

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3 hours ago, Karger said:

I personally think it was because he was closer then Teft to the fourth ideal at the time.  Remember the scene where Teft summons the a blade through supreme effort?  It could just be something like that.

Teft was very close to swearing the fourth then - he would have been forgiving himself.

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14 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Teft was very close to swearing the fourth then - he would have been forgiving himself.

Exactly.  At the fourth ideal you could push through.  Kaladin was healing.  Teft was not quite there yet.  However later developments pushed him past Kaladin.

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If you want another event to throw on the "Kaladin is special" pile:

A huge focus of this book was development of anti-light techniques with the potential to kill spren or other cognitive entities.  Previously spren have been able to be captured, "enlightened" by Sja Anat, or made into deadeyes by a broken Nahel bond.  Utterly killing a spren though seemed only possible via Nightblood (and whatever horrors Ishar has been up to).

But Kaladin killed a spren using Sylblade back in Oathbringer when they were rescuing Gavinor from the palace!  He and Syl seemed surprised, but then the event got pushed to the side and was never brought up again!

Quote

Kaladin reacted with swift, immediate rage. He growled, seizing the Sylblade from the air, forming a small dagger from mist. He drove the dagger forward and caught one of the spren, pinning it to the wall’s wooden paneling. He had never known a Shardblade to cut a spren before, but this worked. The thing screamed in a soft voice, a hundred hands coming from its shape and scraping at the Blade, at the wall, until it seemed to rip into a thousand tiny pieces, then faded.

The other three red spren streaked away in a panic. In his hands, Kaladin felt Syl tremble, then groan softly. He released her, and she took the shape of a small woman. “That was … that was terrible,” she whispered, floating over to land on his shoulder. “Did we … just kill a spren?”

“The thing deserved it,” Kaladin said. Syl just huddled on his shoulder, wrapping her arms around herself.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 813).

I think the language about ripping the spren into pieces is purposeful, recalling other shatterings.  I think it's also noteworthy that Kal is ticked off here.  Despite being connected to Honor, Kaladin can also become incredibly passionate about things (which theoretically is of Odium).  It can range from "good" passion in defending his men or holding back that highstorm, to a more vengeful passion shown here and when he has his yellow-red eye glowy berserker state in RoW.  Either way, when Kaladin is emotionally keyed up, he seems capable of special things.

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51 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I think it's also noteworthy that Kal is ticked off here.  Despite being connected to Honor, Kaladin can also become incredibly passionate about things (which theoretically is of Odium).  It can range from "good" passion in defending his men or holding back that highstorm, to a more vengeful passion shown here and when he has his yellow-red eye glowy berserker state in RoW.  Either way, when Kaladin is emotionally keyed up, he seems capable of special things.

I think Odium's later rant to Taravangian about how he'd lost his champion, AGAIN, meant that Vyre's biggest goal at Urithiru was to push Kaladin to give in to Odium (with suicide, removing him from the board, being the fallback outcome). That Kaladin once again Leveled Up and found his own path was very frustrating for him.

So Kaladin's eyes being yellow-red when he went HAM on all those Fused, was that him almost falling to Odium? If so, what pulled him back from the brink? It's like he didn't "surrender" to Odium - to "give him his pain - instead, he embraced his pain and used it like a mini-Thrill. And make no mistake, he went terrifyingly berserker, as you put it.

I just went back to read it and when The Purs -- er, the Defeated One went to try to slit his throat with a carapace dagger, from Venli's POV, Kaladin "let loose a howl that seemed to vibrate with a hundred discordant rhythms" -- was that the Rhythm of War?

And then he rapidly used Navani's fabrial to decapitate Lezian with a Reverse Lashing, pushed past Leshwi who was trying to console or to congratulate him, and then casually killed two other Heavenly Ones who tried to stop him going after the one who had flown off with his father. So quickly and casually that the narrative doesn't even give any action description to the first one.

"He landed facing a Heavenly One who tried to block his path. ... He left that Heavenly One broken and dying, then tore through the upper chambers."

No Shardspear. No Gravitation. No Stormlight healing to speak of, as by that time the Sibling's corruption had been so advanced that healing from an injury that normally would be instantaneous had taken ten minutes. Just Adhesion, a surgical scalpel, and that "Flying Fist of Fury" fabrial. Yet Regals and Fused alike flee before his terrible visage, or fall like chaff before him.

Edited by robardin
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Syl is the Ancient Daughter. Honor lives in the hearts of men. Honor was splintered. She was the first splinter created by Honor. She is the "daughter" of Honor, not the Stormfather. She can return from death (Kaladin's dark days with Moash did kill her - without making her a deadeye).

So Kaladin's secret sauce could be that constant investiture from the first splinter of Honor is connecting him every more tightly with Honor - who already lives, albeit splintered, in the hearts of Rosharans. He is Stormblessed. Who knows how much investiture Honor gave up in creating Syl? Shards can invest tremendous amounts of power without even using splinters (ie Scadrial shards). 

Note how Kaladin inspires loyalty in all around. How he draws adoration and almost veneration. From his days in Amaram's army to the events of RoW, he is different than the other radiants in his role as a figurehead. He awakens the hearts of Rosharans. He seems very similar to the heralds and fused in this regard. It may even become self-reinforcing.
 

Spoiler

That the phrase "honor lives in the hearts of men" could hurt Kalak so badly is perhaps because it reminds him of where his surgebinding powers come from - given by Honor contingent on the oathpact, which he broke. Breaking an oath can sever a nahel bond. Violating the oathpact probably did something similar. The heralds did not go mad from the torture on Braize - they went mad from each betrayal of the oath restarting the cycle of desolation. And so did honor.



My theory can be summed up thusly: Kaladin is essentially Syl's mini-herald. His powers extend beyond the Nahel Bond. 

Edited by Golstar
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54 minutes ago, Golstar said:

Syl is the Ancient Daughter. Honor lives in the hearts of men. Honor was splintered. She was the first splinter created by Honor. She is the "daughter" of Honor, not the Stormfather. She can return from death (Kaladin's dark days with Moash did kill her - without making her a deadeye).

So Kaladin's secret sauce could be that constant investiture from the first splinter of Honor is connecting him every more tightly with Honor - who already lives, albeit splintered, in the hearts of Rosharans. He is Stormblessed. Who knows how much investiture Honor gave up in creating Syl? Shards can invest tremendous amounts of power without even using splinters (ie Scadrial shards).
 

  Hide contents

That the phrase "honor lives in the hearts of men" could hurt Kalak so badly is perhaps because it reminds him of where his surgebinding powers come from - given by Honor contingent on the oathpact, which he broke. Breaking an oath can sever a nahel bond. Violating the oathpact probably did something similar. The heralds did not go mad from the torture on Braize - they went mad from each betrayal of the oath restarting the cycle of desolation. And so did honor.

 

I don't know where you're getting the idea that Syl was Honor's first splinter. We know she was among the very few Honorspren that the Stormfather created. Perhaps being pre-recreance does connect her more strongly to Honor, but I don't think she's more invested than other Honorspren.

Spoiler

Are you implying that Kalak is a surgebinder here? Because when we see him, he doesn't have any Honorblade, and as far as we know only Nale can surgebind without one.

 

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To add something to the list of weird Kaladin stuff: he's really really fast. He killed a dude in full shardplate because he's just that fast. He nonchalantly merced the pursuer and a few heavenly ones like it was nothing. At first I figured he's just that fast, but that does't seem right now. 

Edited by seriodor
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On 19/11/2020 at 11:07 PM, Ramona Tehradin said:

Cryptics were clearly wary of him, as Elhokar mentioned the 'shadows go away' whenever only Kaladin appears. (In WoR)

I assumed that this would have been the case with any Windrunner because of Cryptic/honorspren politics - there were no others at the time that Elhokar could have interacted with

1 hour ago, Prymalfire said:

I don't know where you're getting the idea that Syl was Honor's first splinter. We know she was among the very few Honorspren that the Stormfather created. Perhaps being pre-recreance does connect her more strongly to Honor, but I don't think she's more invested than other Honorspren.

I realise I suggested that Syl was special in the OP but I'm realising now that it's odd for her to be surprised by the things that Kaladin is doing, since even if her previous Radiant hadn't done them presumably some of the other pre-Recreance honorspren Radiants could have. It seems as though whatever is happening now is at least partly new.

On 20/11/2020 at 0:38 PM, robardin said:

I just went back to read it and when The Purs -- er, the Defeated One went to try to slit his throat with a carapace dagger, from Venli's POV, Kaladin "let loose a howl that seemed to vibrate with a hundred discordant rhythms" -- was that the Rhythm of War?

This isn't how the Rhythm of War is described by Navani and Raboniel, right? It's two rhythms that aren't discordant if played correctly together. The eyes do suggest that some Odium-effect is part of the answer, though.

On 20/11/2020 at 11:48 AM, Subvisual Haze said:

But Kaladin killed a spren using Sylblade back in Oathbringer when they were rescuing Gavinor from the palace!  He and Syl seemed surprised, but then the event got pushed to the side and was never brought up again!

I totally forgot about this and don't know what to think of it. It certainly seems like it should be a bigger deal if the Radiants can kill voidspren. I'm not sure if having some kind of link to Odium would necessarily be able to achieve this, either.

The problem I currently have with these minor threads pointing at a connection to Odium is that Rayse says that it's only via Moash that Rayse can send visions. Plus, Odium thinks he's lost Kaladin as his champion. Of course, he could be lying/mistaken, but I still don't know where/how such a connection could have happened.

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On 20/11/2020 at 0:38 PM, robardin said:

No Shardspear. No Gravitation. No Stormlight healing to speak of, as by that time the Sibling's corruption had been so advanced that healing from an injury that normally would be instantaneous had taken ten minutes. Just Adhesion, a surgical scalpel, and that "Flying Fist of Fury" fabrial. Yet Regals and Fused alike flee before his terrible visage, or fall like chaff before him.

 

28 minutes ago, seriodor said:

To add something to the list of weird Kaladin stuff: he's really really fast. When he goes into berserker mode he is really really fast. He killed a dude in full shardplate because he's just that fast. He nonchalantly merced the pursuer and a few heavenly ones like it was nothing. At first I figured he's just that fast, but that does't seem right now. 

Honestly, when I read this at first I thought it was really dumb writing. I definitely didn't think it made sense that Kaladin could hold his own against Heavenly Ones without Gravitation, even confined in the tower, given how hard the battles in Part One were. If something else is going on that would alleviate this worry somewhat.

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I've been kicking this (crackpot) theory around for a bit, and this seems like the best place to bring it up - could Kaladin have dragon blood?

 

I know, it's a bit of a long shot, but "Son of Tanavast" implies a connection to the vessel. I'm not sure if Tanavast was a dragon, but if he was doinking cultivation, then there's still an excuse for dragon blood.

 

I don't really LIKE the idea, mostly because it would be a weird cosmere shoe-horn to pull a lineage from Yolen into a main character's backstory, but Roshar is becoming increasingly cosmere-aware, so it isn't impossible.

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8 hours ago, Zedseayou said:

I assumed that this would have been the case with any Windrunner because of Cryptic/honorspren politics - there were no others at the time that Elhokar could have interacted with

9 hours ago, Prymalfire said:

That is a plausible theory but then as far as I know, Cryptics tend to remain away from prying eyes which could mean they should've stayed away from Dalinar/Shallan or even Renarin who'd already bonded to Glys by that time but Elhokar only mentions that when Kaladin comes, the shadows go away. Again, there might be nothing to this or there must be some politics stuff as you've just mentioned. 

11 hours ago, Golstar said:

Syl is the Ancient Daughter. Honor lives in the hearts of men. Honor was splintered. She was the first splinter created by Honor. She is the "daughter" of Honor, not the Stormfather. She can return from death (Kaladin's dark days with Moash did kill her - without making her a deadeye).

See, we know Stormfather created Syl and nine others and only Syl survived. Earlier, Syl being related to Honor would've been discarded but we do realise that Stormfather...either has been lying about a lot of things or isn't aware of a lot of stuff. For example, he constantly nagged that humans killed spren and started recreance but in RoW we realised its spren-humans together who made that decision together. So I grow wary of Stormfather's revelation now a days...and remember when the Honorspren were accusing Adolin that Stormblessed tried to kill Syl, I do remember that honorspren mentioning 'the most precious of our kind...Ancient Daughter'. You theory must not be discarded. 

8 hours ago, seriodor said:

To add something to the list of weird Kaladin stuff: he's really really fast. He killed a dude in full shardplate because he's just that fast. He nonchalantly merced the pursuer and a few heavenly ones like it was nothing. At first I figured he's just that fast, but that does't seem right now. 

He's natural with grace. BS said a lot of Spiritual Realm Connection might manifest in weird ways. 

On 11/21/2020 at 1:18 AM, Subvisual Haze said:

But Kaladin killed a spren using Sylblade back in Oathbringer when they were rescuing Gavinor from the palace!  He and Syl seemed surprised, but then the event got pushed to the side and was never brought up again!

Quote

Thanks for mentioning this! I had completely forgotten! yeah, nobody bothered to invest more into this.

Edited by Ramona Tehradin
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I spotted one more possibly strange Kaladin thing. When he swears the fourth Ideal, the text is this:

Quote

“I accept it, Stormfather! I accept that there will be those I cannot protect!” The storm rumbled, and he felt warmth surrounding him, Light infusing him. He heard Syl gasp, and a familiar voice, not the Stormfather’s. THESE WORDS ARE ACCEPTED.

Isn't that strange? No explicit acceptance is given when he says the second Ideal, but at the third Ideal the Stormfather clearly is the one to say THESE WORDS ARE ACCEPTED. Now, it's clearly "a familiar voice, not he Stormfather's"? I'd assume some unknown fragment of Tanavast, or Tien, but could be a lot of options...

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8 minutes ago, Zedseayou said:

I spotted one more possibly strange Kaladin thing. When he swears the fourth Ideal, the text is this:

Isn't that strange? No explicit acceptance is given when he says the second Ideal, but at the third Ideal the Stormfather clearly is the one to say THESE WORDS ARE ACCEPTED. Now, it's clearly "a familiar voice, not he Stormfather's"? I'd assume some unknown fragment of Tanavast, or Tien, but could be a lot of options...

It was Dalinar.

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1 minute ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

It was Dalinar.

Oh, of course. He even says so pages later. That seems significant re: his connection to Honor, but not this thread. Whoops

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