Navani's Discovery [Discuss]

[Karger]

Anti-Investature.  So its a thing.  A thing that can be really easily created on a basically industrial scale.  Sure some has been made but what does it do(other then blow up)?  What happens if you make antistormlight and then a radiant tries to use it?  What happens if you convert an entire shard(or at least enough power to ascend with)?  Most interestingly, in my mind, what happens if the power gains sapience as a spren?  Are anti-voidspren going to be a thing in the back five?  What will they even be like?

Edited November 20, 2020 by Chaos
spoiler in title

[Harkain]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Anti-Investature.  So its a thing.  A thing that can be really easily created on a basically industrial scale.  Sure some has been made but what does it do(other then blow up)?  What happens if you make antistormlight and then a radiant tries to use it?  What happens if you convert an entire shard(or at least enough power to ascend with)?  Most interestingly, in my mind, what happens if the power gains sapience as a spren?  Are anti-voidspren going to be a thing in the back five?  What will they even be like?

I think the main issue with the industrial scale is that role of intent. Standard cosmere weirdness but that could mean that you need someone who specifically understands what they're doing or something along those lines. From what I understood the components are currently difficult to obtain on Roshar. Basically I can't imagine them having toooooo much of it in future.

Fairly sure if you had a radiant take in anti-stormlight it would kill both them and they're siren sorta like what anti-voidlight does to a fused. 

I don't think it would be possible to transform a shard considering they're both effectively nearly infinite investiture and that to make the anti investiture you need to isolate it from the shard influence (rhythms).

Issue with having an anti-investiture spren imo would be that unless you could get them away from the type of investiture they're the opposite of they'd be at constant risk of just ceasing to exist. Like if you have an anti-stormlight spren it'd take just one high storm for them to just cease existing. Basically I feel anti-investiture spren would have too unstable of existence to stick around for any length of time, at least on Roshar. 

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Harkain said:

I think the main issue with the industrial scale is that role of intent. Standard cosmere weirdness but that could mean that you need someone who specifically understands what they're doing or something along those lines

Not too difficult.  Destructive interference can be explained to people pretty easily. 

1 hour ago, Harkain said:

From what I understood the components are currently difficult to obtain on Roshar. Basically I can't imagine them having toooooo much of it in future.

Adhesion should be able to create vacuums.  Alternatively you could just go to space.

1 hour ago, Harkain said:

I don't think it would be possible to transform a shard considering they're both effectively nearly infinite investiture and that to make the anti investiture you need to isolate it from the shard influence (rhythms).

That was largely theoretical.  I just kind of wonder.  However slightly more practically what if you got a megaspren(stormfather size)?  Would you have inverted surges?

1 hour ago, Harkain said:

Issue with having an anti-investiture spren imo would be that unless you could get them away from the type of investiture they're the opposite of they'd be at constant risk of just ceasing to exist. Like if you have an anti-stormlight spren it'd take just one high storm for them to just cease existing. Basically I feel anti-investiture spren would have too unstable of existence to stick around for any length of time, at least on Roshar. 

All of your points are true but under proper conditions their manufacture is still very possible.

[Harkain]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Not too difficult.  Destructive interference can be explained to people pretty easily. 

Oh yea, I don't disagree with that. I just wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being more nuances to that than we know about.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Adhesion should be able to create vacuums.  Alternatively you could just go to space.

I'd more so meant it as at least in the current age of Roshar the equipment/conditions needed to make it are hard to get to. I'd say needing a radiant or getting into space are still fairly significant restrictions.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

That was largely theoretical.  I just kind of wonder.  However slightly more practically what if you got a megaspren(stormfather size)?  Would you have inverted surges?

I don't think it'd necessarily invert the surges, impression I've gotten is surges are more just restricted bits of magic systems inherent to cosmere. Like the stuff about what stonewards do being just a restricted form of microkinesis or lightweaving being present on Yolen. What I reckon would be more interested is how would surges driven by the anti-investiture function around the surges of the normal investiture. 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

All of your points are true but under proper conditions their manufacture is still very possible.

I wasn't argue against it being manufactured haha. More so just the idea that they're gonna be able to rapidly create a whoooole lot of it. Imo it'll probably be a relatively rare resource at least within the current cosmere era.

[Wadders]

5 hours ago, Karger said:

Adhesion should be able to create vacuums.  Alternatively you could just go to space.

You could also potentially use a lightweaver to create the tone.

I'm also wondering how the tone could be used when fighting the fused.

[Harkain]

28 minutes ago, Wadders said:

You could also potentially use a lightweaver to create the tone.

I'm also wondering how the tone could be used when fighting the fused.

Thinking on that actually, what would happen if a radiant lightweaver tried to create the tone for anti-stormlight? Would they even be able to in the first place?

[Karger]

5 hours ago, Harkain said:

Thinking on that actually, what would happen if a radiant lightweaver tried to create the tone for anti-stormlight? Would they even be able to in the first place?

Even better would be the tone for anti-Voidlight.  Great sonic attack for the fused.

[Wadders]

So the next innovation they need for the war is amazing speaker systems?!

[Karger]

14 minutes ago, Wadders said:

So the next innovation they need for the war is amazing speaker systems?!

DJ NAVANI WILL END THE WAR!

[Realmatic Shadow]

28 minutes ago, Karger said:

DJ NAVANI WILL END THE WAR!

Not the image I was expecting to have for the end of the war, but now all I can see is Navani using Urithiru as a massive speaker to broadcast the anti-Voidlight tone and take out all of the Fused at once

[The Silverlight Scholar]

I don't know if I should make my own thread for this, but I was wondering, how does the investiture/anti-investiture reaction relate to the idea that energy/matter/investiture cannot be destroyed only changed. When the spheres exploded I thought that perhaps the investiture and anti-investiture changed into a massive amount of heat and that caused the gemstone to crack, causing the loud boom and all the burn marks were from the heat. However, The process was nowhere nearly as physically destructive when the anti-void light was used to destroy Raboniel's daughter. What do you think we would see if we had witnessed the event from the cognitive realm, or perhaps even the spiritual realm? 

[Kingsdaughter613]

58 minutes ago, The Silverlight Scholar said:

I don't know if I should make my own thread for this, but I was wondering, how does the investiture/anti-investiture reaction relate to the idea that energy/matter/investiture cannot be destroyed only changed. When the spheres exploded I thought that perhaps the investiture and anti-investiture changed into a massive amount of heat and that caused the gemstone to crack, causing the loud boom and all the burn marks were from the heat. However, The process was nowhere nearly as physically destructive when the anti-void light was used to destroy Raboniel's daughter. What do you think we would see if we had witnessed the event from the cognitive realm, or perhaps even the spiritual realm? 

It’s something like matter and antimatter destroying each other, I think.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10302-antimatter-and-matter-combine-in-chemical-reaction/ Also, we seem to have found a way to combine those... which may mean you can meld investiture and anti-investiture.

[Gingerbread Man]

Galivar had the original anti storm light sphere though. And the fact that he had help makes me think other people know about anti-investiture already.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Gingerbread Man