Necessary Eagle

All this time, we've been asking the wrong questions about bonding multiple spren

35 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Topgoon said:

Dual-wielding will only be the start of it. The applications are quite insane IMO. With two living, bonded sprens, Shallan can form:

  • a proper shard bow. One spren as the bow, the other as the arrow. The arrow automatically comes back.
  • a shard sword-and-shield (or net and trident like a gladiator)
  • more far-fetched, but if she can add mass to her light weaving (like in OB), can she form a double wielding the other blade?

 

 

1. We know that dead shardblades can be thrown, but do we have confirmation live ones can be? If so, could the arrow also slightly home towards it's target?

2. This would just be very effective, net runs into the above problem though.

3. This would be incredible. I need to see this.

Also, while Brandon RAFOd shard-guns a while ago, that was in relation to a single shardblade. I imagine that even if one spren cannot form a shardgun, two might.

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4 hours ago, valoglav said:

Hi everyone, I sign up because I have an idea forming in my mind, but I'm not sure if there are some facts that would prove me wrong.

Is there possibility that Testament is the Helarans blade? If he did something to influence Shallan to break her oaths, so he could get the blade? 

Welcome!

I can’t think of anything that directly invalidates this theory. It seems out of character for the Helaran we know, but we mostly know him through Shallan.

Also, the sword was lesser known (as Shallan wanted to sketch it for her inventory of blades). This could mean it was new, or it could mean it was known but not in detail, or she could have just been lying about that to have a reason to get close to Amaram.

Mai from my knowledge it *could* be, but I wouldn’t put my money on it.

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I assume that we've never seen Shallan summon Testamentblade because she's supposedly hear the screaming - and the blade we've seen since WoR has been Pattern. 

I'm a little confused as to what ideal Shallan is at now. If she had Pattern during WoR (3rd ideal), is she on her fifth ideal at this point? 

  • 4th ideal: murdering her mother and letting her father take the blame - there are theories that Shallan actually had Shardplate in OB during the Battle of Thaylen Field
  • 5th ideal: murdering her spren 

I personally suspect that she has 1 more ideal to go, since that would likely lead to the absorption of Radiant, and it makes sense narratively (her big climax in book 5). Hence why I feel like I'm losing count.  

Edited by Topgoon
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On 11/20/2020 at 10:06 AM, Harrycrapper said:

My theory is that the way they imprisoned Bo-Ado-Mishram affected more than the Sibling. You're right that there had to of been broken Oaths before the Recreance considering how easy it was for Shallan and Kaladin to break and nearly break theirs respectively. It's extremely unlikely that all the spren only ever bonded people that went to the Radiants and recieved instruction in how to best go about their bond. I suspect that the imprisonment also made spren more vulnerable to broken oaths. 

Yes. The Epigraphs suggest that Mishram is very, very important to Roshar. Further, the that Raboniel was "unmaking " the Sibling suggests that the other Unmade could be pre-Odium spren similar to Stormdaddy and Nightweirdo 

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7 hours ago, Blacksmithki said:

1. We know that dead shardblades can be thrown, but do we have confirmation live ones can be? If so, could the arrow also slightly home towards it's target?

2. This would just be very effective, net runs into the above problem though.

3. This would be incredible. I need to see this.

Also, while Brandon RAFOd shard-guns a while ago, that was in relation to a single shardblade. I imagine that even if one spren cannot form a shardgun, two might.

Spoiler

Shardguns have been somewhat confirmed now. And they’re as awesome as speculated.

 

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8 hours ago, Topgoon said:

4th ideal: murdering her mother and letting her father take the blame - there are theories that Shallan actually had Shardplate in OB during the Battle of Thaylen Field

If this is 4th, what are you calling 2nd and 3rd?

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1 hour ago, Govir said:

If this is 4th, what are you calling 2nd and 3rd?

They probably are referring to "I'm terrified" (soulcast goblet into blood) and "I killed my father" (going into Shadesmar in front of Jasnah), at the end of WoK. There's some relevant theorising in this thread: 

 

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5 hours ago, Zedseayou said:

They probably are referring to "I'm terrified" (soulcast goblet into blood) and "I killed my father" (going into Shadesmar in front of Jasnah), at the end of WoK. There's some relevant theorising in this thread: 

 

Yes, that's roughly what I'm thinking. 

Basically, if the blade Shallan used to kill Tyn was Pattern, then she was already at the 3rd ideal at the time and those 2 are the likely truths that got her there. But there's a chance that was Testamentblade (hence the 10 heartbeats), and somehow because of Shallan's previous bond, she doesn't hear the screaming. 

This revelation is essentially going to lead to another reread lol. I remember being so hyped by Shallan saying "10 heartbeats" in TWoK because of how amazing it'd be if she had a shardblade. Then we learned about Pattern and my head exploded. Now, it's happened again. I suspect chapters like "the Hidden Blade" will have totally new meaning now after RoW.

 

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1 hour ago, Topgoon said:

Basically, if the blade Shallan used to kill Tyn was Pattern, then she was already at the 3rd ideal at the time and those 2 are the likely truths that got her there.

That’s an excellent point that I didn’t think of. And just reinforces the oddity I found with Shallan’s Ideals. In my previous rundown in this thread, she wouldn’t have been at the Third Ideal with Pattern at the time she killed Tyn or used it in the chasm.

Has anyone ever flat out asked Brandon, what are Shallan’s Ideals / truths? Which probably now needs to be specified to “What are Shallan’s Ideals she has spoken to Pattern?” Which is vague enough to hopefully not spoil people who aren’t in the know.

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13 hours ago, Govir said:

That’s an excellent point that I didn’t think of. And just reinforces the oddity I found with Shallan’s Ideals. In my previous rundown in this thread, she wouldn’t have been at the Third Ideal with Pattern at the time she killed Tyn or used it in the chasm.

Has anyone ever flat out asked Brandon, what are Shallan’s Ideals / truths? Which probably now needs to be specified to “What are Shallan’s Ideals she has spoken to Pattern?” Which is vague enough to hopefully not spoil people who aren’t in the know.

I don't think anyone has asked where she is on her ideals but I could most certainly be wrong. I think that she's only at her 4th, seeing as we know that for the 5th ideal at least in the case of the skybrackers they become a reflection of their ideals/order. But the Lightwevers could be different as they swear by truths instead of ideals, so I'm too sure what they would become the embodiment of. Was Shallan at the 3ed or 2nt with Testament? and did it really take her 10 heartbeats to some the blade she used to kill Tyn? This would tell us if she used Testaments corps or Patternblade

Edited by Starlight
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