Axindweth

[Necessary Eagle]

Anyone have any guesses why a random Terriswoman would be working to bring back Odium? Like, what's in it for her to go to another planet and free the god of hatred? The whole thing is just really strange.

Given the Thaidakar reveal, I guess either Axindweth  or the palace steward opposing her is connected to the Ghostbloods?

[DracostarA]

My theory is that she is connected to the Ghostbloods. Since Ulim mentioned that she was found out by another of 'her kind' and had to leave.

In the 'Lift' interlude we find the corpse of a man with a number of rings missing from his hands, who also owned the Red chicken (likely Aviar) which fought with Mraize's Aviar, and was probably killed by Mraize. So I think this dead Terrisman in Urithiru was the one who exposed her before, and as an enemy of the Ghostbloods Mraize put him down.

[ThurgreatMarshall]

My guess would be the Sons of Honor, not the Ghostbloods. Specifically due to 

1. Eshonai's observation of how much time Axindweth spends with the king.

Spoiler

It was the woman with the rings. Eshonai had thought she might be once-mates with the king, considering how often she spoke with him. But apparently there was no relation.

2. The general Sons of Honor plan to "restore the listener gods"

It's not clear to me who the Steward Terrisman and/or Urithiru Terrisman (TBD if they're the same person) is working with, but Mraize targeting the Urithiru aviar is an interesting point.

[DracostarA]

I agree actually I think I'd missed that @Beltway2A, it makes way more sense.

Regarding the other one I think they are the same person as Lift mentions, but it is also intriguing he has an Aviar in the first place, maybe one that could be a threat to Ghostbloods given they wanted it dead and not captured.

Quote

Yes … thinking about it, she thought she recognized him. One of the old people in the tower. Retired, once an important official in the palace.

 

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Anyone have any guesses why a random Terriswoman would be working to bring back Odium? Like, what's in it for her to go to another planet and free the god of hatred? The whole thing is just really strange.

These are two different questions, though they are related.

1. (Scadrial)
   Spoiler

   We do not really not a special reason for Terris people fleeing their home planet furing the Final Empire, do we?

    

2. Honor and Cultivation support an official religion that fully supports an aristocracy. That is not really attractive to people of that heritage. And at the end of the day Terrispeople need to eat and pay the bills.

[+robardin]

8 hours ago, DracostarA said:

My theory is that she is connected to the Ghostbloods. Since Ulim mentioned that she was found out by another of 'her kind' and had to leave.

In the 'Lift' interlude we find the corpse of a man with a number of rings missing from his hands, who also owned the Red chicken (likely Aviar) which fought with Mraize's Aviar, and was probably killed by Mraize. So I think this dead Terrisman in Urithiru was the one who exposed her before, and as an enemy of the Ghostbloods Mraize put him down.

This was my take as well.

I was also wondering how long ago these Feruchemists had left Scadrial. Are they full Feruchemists, or Ferrings?

Also, if Axindweth "picked up" listener language so quickly by tapping Connection via a metalmind, that metal would have to be duralumin, a metal not known until after the fall of the Lord Ruler (and whose Feruchemical use wasn't known until after the Catacendre, there only being two Feruchemists in the world who were even around the metal enough to fiddle with it in Sazed and Tindwyl).

[Kingsdaughter613]

19 minutes ago, robardin said:

This was my take as well.

I was also wondering how long ago these Feruchemists had left Scadrial. Are they full Feruchemists, or Ferrings?

Also, if Axindweth "picked up" listener language so quickly by tapping Connection via a metalmind, that metal would have to be duralumin, a metal not known until after the fall of the Lord Ruler (and whose Feruchemical use wasn't known until after the Catacendre, there only being two Feruchemists in the world who were even around the metal enough to fiddle with it in Sazed and Tindwyl).

Unless she’s one of the pre-Rashek Feruchemists. Which is possible.

[+robardin]

1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Unless she’s one of the pre-Rashek Feruchemists. Which is possible.

Right, hence my point about having a duraluminmind to tap Connection (if that is how she learned listener language so quickly). It was not a metal known to the Final Empire people.

But she might be descended from Terris folk who managed to worldhop off earlier, which raises very interesting possibilities for Mistborn and general Cosmere questions that often boil down to "but you'd need a full Feruchemist with Era 2 metals/knowledge for that, so, howsaboutthat?"

[Kingsdaughter613]

Just now, robardin said:

Right, hence my point about having a duraluminmind to tap Connection (if that is how she learned listener language so quickly). It was not a metal known to the Final Empire people.

But she might be descended from Terris folk who managed to worldhop off earlier, which raises very interesting possibilities for Mistborn and general Cosmere questions that often boil down to "but you'd need a full Feruchemist with Era 2 metals/knowledge for that, so, howsaboutthat?"

Rashek knew of those metals and suppressed the knowledge. We don’t know that they weren’t known at some point. Rather the opposite; Preservation makes it clear that they WERE known at some point. He’s horrified when he realizes that Ruin has managed to suppress the knowledge.

So: the metals were definitely known at one point. They may have been known during Rashek’s time, but they may not.

An ancient Feruchemist from Scadrial’s past could know of those metals. Even if not, odds are they experimented with aluminum and allomantic metals come in pairs... It’s also possible that Zinc could be used to learn faster, especially when paired with Copper.

[+robardin]

3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Rashek knew of those metals and suppressed the knowledge. We don’t know that they weren’t known at some point. Rather the opposite; Preservation makes it clear that they WERE known at some point. He’s horrified when he realizes that Ruin has managed to suppress the knowledge.

So: the metals were definitely known at one point. They may have been known during Rashek’s time, but they may not.

An ancient Feruchemist from Scadrial’s past could know of those metals. Even if not, odds are they experimented with aluminum and allomantic metals come in pairs... It’s also possible that Zinc could be used to learn faster, especially when paired with Copper.

He kept the metals secret and suppressed the Feruchemists' very existence, plus duralumin is an alloy of an already incredibly rare metal for the FE in aluminum (which was "mined from inside the ashmounts", according to Yomen's memoirs as the Last Obligator), so I doubt many Teris stewards got their hands on it to play with Feruchemically.

SA is supposed to take place after the Catacendre in the Cosmere timeline, I believe, so really it's not a question of "where would Axindweth get either duralumin or knowledge of its Feruchemical use" so much as "is she a full Feruchemist or a Connector Ferring?", if you read that scene with her rapid learning of listener language as a use of Connection. (Heck if it's late enough in the Scadrian timeline, she could even simply be using a medallion-like technology.)

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 minute ago, robardin said:

He kept the metals secret and suppressed the Feruchemists' very existence, plus duralumin is an alloy of an already incredibly rare metal for the FE in aluminum (which was "mined from inside the ashmounts", according to Yomen's memoirs as the Last Obligator), so I doubt many Teris stewards got their hands on it to play with Feruchemically.

SA is supposed to take place after the Catacendre in the Cosmere timeline, I believe, so really it's not a question of "where would Axindweth get either duralumin or knowledge of its Feruchemical use" so much as "is she a full Feruchemist or a Connector Ferring?", if you read that scene with her rapid learning of listener language as a use of Connection. (Heck if it's late enough in the Scadrian timeline, she could even simply be using a medallion-like technology.)

True. That’s the point: we don’t when or where she came from. Assuming she MUST be from Era 2 because she ‘might’ have Duraluminum is a pretty big jump.

[+robardin]

6 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

True. That’s the point: we don’t when or where she came from. Assuming she MUST be from Era 2 because she ‘might’ have Duraluminum is a pretty big jump.

I was actually saying the reverse: if you think she has FE era (pre-Catacendre) origins for her Feruchemy, which I personally would, while being off-world on Roshar, then it opens the worldhopper door to resolve a bunch of other open questions in the Mistborn-only discussions which frequently boil down to "but for that you'd need a Full Feruchemist who knows about using Later Metals, and they were all killed by the Inquisitors before they were known about by the Synod".

[Kingsdaughter613]

4 minutes ago, robardin said:

I was actually saying the reverse: if you think she has FE era (pre-Catacendre) origins for her Feruchemy, which I personally would, while being off-world on Roshar, then it opens the worldhopper door to resolve a bunch of other open questions in the Mistborn-only discussions which frequently boil down to "but for that you'd need a Full Feruchemist who knows about using Later Metals, and they were all killed by the Inquisitors before they were known about by the Synod".

Ah. That makes sense. I can’t wait until we can discuss this on the Mistborn forum.

[Karger]

Rings imply Terris but it is equally possibly that this is just a cosmere aware Rosharan with a medallion. The other theory is that it is a sleepless particularly. DS

Spoiler

A true traitor as mentioned. 

One of these works with the GBs.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Karger

[+Oltux72]

14 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Anyone have any guesses why a random Terriswoman would be working to bring back Odium? Like, what's in it for her to go to another planet and free the god of hatred? The whole thing is just really strange.

He is also a god of passion and revolution.

14 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Given the Thaidakar reveal, I guess either Axindweth  or the palace steward opposing her is connected to the Ghostbloods?

Yet Ulim knew that he was smuggled into Roshar and expected to go to the Listeners. And that was part of Odium's plans. So do you want to argue that the gem he was hidden in was stolen by the Ghostbloods who subsequently were nice enough to do exactly what the original owners wanted to do in the first place?

[Kingsdaughter613]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

He is also a god of passion and revolution.

Yet Ulim knew that he was smuggled into Roshar and expected to go to the Listeners. And that was part of Odium's plans. So do you want to argue that the gem he was hidden in was stolen by the Ghostbloods who subsequently were nice enough to do exactly what the original owners wanted to do in the first place?

Yeah... Kell would never be on board with that. 
 

Stick the gemstone in a very obvious place, like a lamp, where no one thinks to look? Oh, totally. Keep it for study? Sure. Sell it? Why not?

Do something someone ELSE wants done...? Yeah, not happening.

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Do something someone ELSE wants done...? Yeah, not happening.

OK, we agree. So, wild theory time.

Quote

We killed you.

Why is this relevant? Odium had or has an ally.

We also learned that Ambition, Odium and Mercy met in battle. And Mercy worries Harmony. So:

She does not work for Odium. She works for Mercy and Mercy cooperates with Odium. Why a Shard called Mercy would take in refugees is kind of obvious, as is a motivation for people to flee

(Scadrial)

Spoiler

from The Final Empire. Castration and execution are kind of great motivators.

Quote

Rings imply Terris but it is equally possibly that this is just a cosmere aware Rosharan with a medallion. The other theory is that it is a sleepless particularly. DS

Named Axindweth ? With no reason to use a meaningless alien alias?

Edited November 19, 2020 by Oltux72
Forgot to answer Karger

[ALAKA]

19 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

from The Final Empire. Castration and execution are kind of great motivators.

Named Axindweth ? With no reason to use a meaningless alien alias?

Now that you mention it, why does she use a Terris name - surely she should want to stay under the radar? Obviously if she did we the readers wouldn't be able to get excited, but what's her motive?

@Beltway2A Sons of Honor or just maybe a generic Odious agent? Though she is close to Gavilar so SoH?

[+Oltux72]

2 minutes ago, ALAKA said:

Now that you mention it, why does she use a Terris name

Sometimes the easiest explanation is best. That is her true name.

2 minutes ago, ALAKA said:

- surely she should want to stay under the radar? Obviously if she did we the readers wouldn't be able to get excited, but what's her motive?

She is staying under the radar. Any name she gave would be foreign to a Listener. And among the Alethi she would be well advised to pose as an immigrant. She looks odd. So why take the risk of messing up your names or not reacting with natural speed to an assumed name? General fieldcraft is avoiding unnecessary lies.

[ALAKA]

6 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Sometimes the easiest explanation is best. That is her true name.

She is staying under the radar. Any name she gave would be foreign to a Listener. And among the Alethi she would be well advised to pose as an immigrant. She looks odd. So why take the risk of messing up your names or not reacting with natural speed to an assumed name? General fieldcraft is avoiding unnecessary lies.

Yeah - agree entirely that that is her name - was just wondering why she uses it - and that sounds reasonable. Does she explicitly look odd BTW? 

[Necessary Eagle]

8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Yet Ulim knew that he was smuggled into Roshar and expected to go to the Listeners. And that was part of Odium's plans. So do you want to argue that the gem he was hidden in was stolen by the Ghostbloods who subsequently were nice enough to do exactly what the original owners wanted to do in the first place?

Sorry, just... not understanding how what you said follows from what I said?

[+Oltux72]

11 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Sorry, just... not understanding how what you said follows from what I said?

Ulim ended up where he was supposed to end up. Axindweth helped with that. That rules out her being a Ghostblood. Had the Ghostbloods captured a void spren, they would not give it back.

The steward may be a Ghostblood. But there is no evidence for that.

[Necessary Eagle]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Ulim ended up where he was supposed to end up. Axindweth helped with that. That rules out her being a Ghostblood. Had the Ghostbloods captured a void spren, they would not give it back.

We don't know that. I would have said that bringing back Odium would be out of character for Kell, but I would have said leading the GB was out of character as well. Clearly there's a lot going on behind the scenes we have no idea about.

[+Oltux72]

2 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

We don't know that. I would have said that bringing back Odium would be out of character for Kell, but I would have said leading the GB was out of character as well. Clearly there's a lot going on behind the scenes we have no idea about.

We got an interaction between Mraize and the occupiers. They were not friendly.

[Necessary Eagle]

Just now, Oltux72 said:

We got an interaction between Mraize and the occupiers. They were not friendly.

They captured Lift and gave her to them. They weren't respectful about it, but they were working together in some way.