[Spoilers Sixth of the Dusk Sequel] New weapon on First of the Sun

[Alpharho]

Brandon's new reading had some amazing easter-eggs. Most notably, a violet-glowing radiant in full plate summoning a shard-rifle. He had a roughly bird-shaped glyph on his armor and asked about local laws. So I'm assuming a far-future Skybreaker.  

Also very interesting was a ship taking off from a steel landing platform with no sound.

It seems that both Scadrial and Roshar, or some factions with their powers are vying for control of the Aviar.

[Jozomby]

+1 to the skybreaker, also because of the flying.

I wonder if the box used with the shard gun was some sort of ammo pack, to get over the issue with the spren needing to stay in a single piece.  Maybe physical bullets, or maybe just investiture.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Jozomby
grammar

[Honorless]

For those who're curious but haven't found it yet, here you go:

It's at the 3:5:20 mark

 

Hmm... delicate metal work embellishments, are the spacesuits Shardplate? The burning on contact could be the Surge of Division but it could also be a Brassmind perhaps. The launchpad is made entirely out of steel, the main spacecraft is in orbit. That sounds like mechanical Allomancy but could also be a fabrial. Decreasing weight by Feruchemy would also be useful. Feruchemy allows tapping Connection for language, they are probably using that as well. Huh, lots of people with Eelakin names are in the Mainland companies, makes sense I suppose, but I expected far fewer. First of the Sun now has electricity and modern industry & machinery (that rely on the Ones Above in one way or another) and medicine but oh no... Kokerlii is dead! The Ones Above waited before distributing medicine.

Another Aviar ability: sounds like it allows one to see light outside of the visible spectrum. There's also security Aviar, no idea what ability they grant though.

Also an error in the beginning: the First of the Sun natives did find out that the Ones Above were human already: when one of them (supposedly) choked on food and died.

There's another group of visitors from another world here. They're wearing... a seamless metal suit, that sounds even more like Shardplate, but more sleek & modern. It's glowing "violet-blue", later expanded to "sky blue and deep violet" (Willshaper? Elsecaller? Windrunner? Skybreaker? Multi-Order or mixed with Voidbinding like Renarin?

[RoW spoilers]

Spoiler

Radiant Order using different Light?

Also, something to keep in mind: not all cultures had names for all colours irl). They're tall, like Rosharans. A glyph like a bird in flight... that sounds like a few of the Radiant Order glyphs but can't narrow it down more.

So the Ones Above are Scadrians?

[Mistborn + Stormlight incl RoW spoilers]

Spoiler

Also the Ones Above used the word "masters", which makes me think of the Ghostbloods. Probably not the Set, they should be dealt with by era 3, I think. They l could also just be South Scadrians. Of course I could just be overthinking and it's just Elendel Basin Scadrians, their masters are just their employers and/or various noblemen.

And the Rosharans are acting at cross-purposes with them. Sixth thinks this man is not human, which could be true, not all Rosharans are humans. This could be a Singer in Envoyform to speak their language. "You have only one gem with which to bargain", heh, definitely Rosharan. So, a Knight Radiant, are they policing space or something? That would still have been in their own interests, maintaining power & monopoly, ah, nope, they are outright conquering other planets, competing with the Scadrians. Scadrians are expanding, with various vassal worlds, ooh! "Elevations & status" huh... sounds like some Vorin things might've survived till the space age. That escalated fast! Oh my god, Shardguns are a thing (what will the bullets be made of?) or is that a fabrial, but then how did it manifest from nowhere? What was that pack? Bullets or Investiture to power the Shardgun or both? Hmm... asking about laws, could be a Skybreaker. He seems to be using the Surge of Gravitation. "This alien arrived without a ship but didn't seem to need one to travel the stars. He had flown down from the sky under the power of, he assumed, his strange and magnificent armour."

I don't think these are like humans and Singers, Honor aligned and Odium aligned, as the second alien seems to confirm they're from different worlds. Though I suppose if Roshar and Braize were being counted as different or something... and the steel platform could be a fabrial thing than mechanical Allomancy but I'm going with the simplest explanation on this

First of the Sun has to choose between the two alien overlords...

Sak showed Dusk a decades aged Vathi's corpse dressed in the uniform of the Ones Above, decorated with patches and award medals. The most prominent patch reads "Vathi, Colonial Governor of the occupied planet, First of the Sun", others for valor, for putting down rebellions. Also interestingly, Vathi's Aviar, Mirris could sense Sak's visions. Haha, Dusk doesn't recognize the medallion of the first man to explore Patji, the interaction between them is funny and so them. Dusk wants to find other weaker Shardworlds (their own system has others!) and join forces. He intends to do so via "the Darkness", the Cognitive Realm. They've sent expeditions into the Perpendicularity before too, none returned. So, their Cognitive Realm is hazardous, it's not just the Silverlight scholars stumbling straight into Patji from the Cognitive Realm and getting attacked by the mind-hunting creatures.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Honorless
added liveblogged reactions; edited for clarity; additional thoughts; cleared up typos

[Aon Tia]

@Honorless thanks for the video link. You are no sun sphere, you are a glowing gemheart !

@Alpharho thanks for making this post and sorta confirming an old theory of mine. I have argued before that not just Scadrians, the ones above could be Rosharans also. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by The Traveller

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

Another Aviar ability: sounds like it allows one to see light outside of the visible spectrum. There's also security Aviar, no idea what ability they grant though.

Likely the Tin and Pewter equivilents.

[Truthless of Shinovar]

Considering TOA are Scadrian, I’m very curious to see what Harmony thinks of all of this. I can’t see him encouraging it, but certainly not prohibitions it either.

Also, what connection hack is that Skybreaker using?? I really want to know...

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Considering TOA are Scadrian, I’m very curious to see what Harmony thinks of all of this. I can’t see him encouraging it, but certainly not prohibitions it either.

Also, what connection hack is that Skybreaker using?? I really want to know...

1. Harmony may have become Discord, or been Shattered by this time

2. Dawnshard, Bondsmith Honorbalde, eating a purelake fish, Nightwatcher? Eating Hoid?

[Eternal Khol]

8 hours ago, Honorless said:

it's not just the Silverlight scholars stumbling straight into Patji from the Cognitive Realm and getting attacked by the creatures.

I though this was always implied/stated.

otherwise, people could just walk up to the Perpendicularity In the Cognitive realm and then go through it and theyd already be safe to collect Aviar (since the area around the pool shields minds) and grab a bunch of Aviar and then skedaddle, In just a few minutes.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Jozomby]

Given how many creatures here have close ties to the cognitive realm (mind hunting) I wouldn't be surprised at all if the cognitive realm here was seriously wonky.  Maybe these creatures reflect on the other side as well (as full monsters, rather than the normal floating lights) or maybe there's something else happening.  But the cognitive and physical seem unusually close here.

[Experience]

I'm guessing the scadrians were at least misting(s) because it said the platform had to be made of steel, so they flew with steelpushing. Maybe.

[Eternal Khol]

On 11/18/2020 at 3:09 PM, Experience said:

I'm guessing the scadrians were at least misting(s) because it said the platform had to be made of steel, so they flew with steelpushing. Maybe.

And i bet they have a iron landing plate on the ship in space that the mini ship Pulls on for trajectory?

or maybe they use aluminum to somehow isolate the pushing along one specific plane? Kinda like the new discoveries with pairing fabrials on Roshar(so the ship doesn’t end up Pushing horizontally or anything?)

i dont know if thats at all possible. Someone more knowledgeable will have to expand.

 

all of this... is so far out of my league lol

Edited November 24, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Karger]

On 11/18/2020 at 7:24 AM, Honorless said:

Hmm... are the suits Shardplate?

They fairly definitely an analogous concept.  However we have no proof that the suit or the weapon is an actual set of plate.  An Elantrain for example could probably make a suit given the time.  I actually think the fact that the man wearing the suit is over seven feet is a much better indication of a Rosharan origin.  Going along with the fact that he summons a sprengun(or equivalent) and cares deeply about laws I think we can tentatively confirm that he is a era four skybreaker(ish).

On 11/18/2020 at 7:24 AM, Honorless said:

violet-blue" later expanded to "sky blue and deep violet

Could just be some kind of shardplate upgrade.  The right alterations to make space travel easier.

On 11/18/2020 at 7:24 AM, Honorless said:

The launchpad is made entirely out of steel, the main spacecraft is in orbit

Steel indicates scadrain or at least scadrain tec(although metals are fairly universal so this is less certain).

On 11/18/2020 at 7:09 PM, Experience said:

I'm guessing the scadrians were at least misting(s) because it said the platform had to be made of steel, so they flew with steelpushing. Maybe.

Southern tec probably allows them the power even without having it in their DNA.

On 11/18/2020 at 4:15 PM, Jozomby said:

Given how many creatures here have close ties to the cognitive realm (mind hunting) I wouldn't be surprised at all if the cognitive realm here was seriously wonky.  Maybe these creatures reflect on the other side as well (as full monsters, rather than the normal floating lights) or maybe there's something else happening.  But the cognitive and physical seem unusually close here.

D(if he were verbose)   "Father I have mastered your physical trails.  You may catch me one day.  I will now pass through you into your mind."

P "You thought that my playground was bad?  Who is a sweet boy..."

 

Here is what I think is going on.  This is in the far future of the cosmere and the various groups are encountering a problem or set of problems.  The military and industrial complex that allow you to defend your homeland from this tend to make people think much more imperially.  After all if you are protecting a group of people then they should probably help pay you for it.  Then they should adopt parts of your culture and there messy internal politics are really just getting in the way of this protection so lets get rid of those as well.  Pretty soon you have a bunch of imperial powers.  However imperial powers need a lot of communication to run effectively meaning eventually you get rebellions as dissident groups become better at communicating both with each other and the public.  Rebellions weaken empires and make them more susceptible to other empires. In the end the surviving empires mitigate this by creating essentially a code of conduct for how colonization is done.  As such the ones above are forced to follow certain guidelines at least officially so that they can rationalize what they are doing.  The Ones strike me increasingly as corporate types.  They expect results, they expect them now, and they only care about rationalizing enough so that no legal action can be pressed against them. 

RoW full spoilers.

Spoiler

I think that Odium is loose again.  I think Taravangian will loose yet win in such a way that he can send agents into the cosmere even though he generally looses roshar.  Roshar's radiants figure out what went down and although they spend the back five containing various plans of Taravangian he still is not stopped entirely.  Now many years later his time is up.  He is free of the pact and can start causing problems again.  Only the cosmere's empires can really stand against him but in doing so they play into his hands.  Dusk will find the allies he seeks.  They will deliver his world and in a few centuries it will end up serving Odium.  Taravangian's plan at its finest.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Karger

[Frustration]

30 minutes ago, Karger said:

The Ones strike me increasingly as corporate types.  They expect results, they expect them now, and they only care about rationalizing enough so that no legal action can be pressed against them. 

This gives me the question, is this an East India company type thing or has a company actually taken over all of Scandrial?

I think it's the first, because a governing body would not need to follow rules like that(Maybe) but also makes more sense as we have actual precedent.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Frustration

[Karger]

13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

This gives me the question, is this an East India company type thing or has a company actually taken over all of Scandrial?

Given that they are answerable to a legal authority they actually care about and that cooperate governments are strikingly ineffective I think the first considerably more probable.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Given that they are answerable to a legal authority they actually care about and that cooperate governments are strikingly ineffective I think the first considerably more probable.

Agreed

Might I purpose the Scandrian East Cosmere Company?

Although makes me wonder, becasue I don't see any connection between the Skybreaker and a commpany, the way he speaks sounds far more imperial, closer to Cyrus or Alexander or Julius Ceazar, than a buisness man.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Frustration

[Karger]

54 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Although makes me wonder, becasue I don't see any connection between the Skybreaker and a commpany, the way he speaks sounds far more imerial, closer to Cyrus or Alexander or Julius Ceazar, than a buisness man.

I think Roshar(I suppose he could be from elsewhere) is more of a traditional military empire and he is an empowered representative of said empire.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Karger

[Frustration]

10 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think Roshar(I suppose he could be from elsewhere) is more of a traditional military empire and he is an empowered representative of said empire.

Likely it's not like Brandon to do the smae thing twice.

[Jozomby]

Quote

The voice had an unnatural cast to it; not an accent, like someone from a backwater isle. But a kind of... unnatural air.

Perhaps a stretch, but this has me wondering if this alien in the armor is a singer speaking to the rhythms.

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, Jozomby said:

Perhaps a stretch, but this has me wondering if this alien in the armor is a singer speaking to the rhythms.

Quite possibly,

Which favors the idea that it is a singer

the other options are it being an Alethi or Horneater or maybe Aimian.

[HSuperLee]

This post got me to listen to the reading and man I'm excited for Era 4. Its going to be so interesting seeing all these technological additions to the magics coming about.

I think we're all agreed on the skybreaker part, and if I were a betting man my money would be on a singer or hybrid, what with the "distorted" voice. What's interesting is that while the Scardrian East Cosmere Company idea seems likely, we could probably also apply that logic to the Rosharan. Now, I've not read RoW, but it seems to me that we can't assume Roshar will be an entirely united planet in Era 4. I know in sci-fi planets seem to become a single government once they reach space age, but I feel like Sanderson will subvert that and be somewhat more nuanced. With that in mind, I don't know that we can say the radiant represents Roshar or even just the skybreakers.

I'm also wondering, why a skybreaker? They don't exactly seem like they'd make good diplomats. The reasons I can think of is that they have access to gravitation, and thus can travel through space more subtly than a ship could. Especially if the color of the stormlight is off because the radiant has some function in the plate that makes it's investiture more difficult to detect (basically, purple = stealthmode.) So why a skybreaker over a windrunner? Maybe just because of their experience with law being useful for detailing a contract or something. But that still feels off. Wouldn't an elsecaller be the more logical choice? At least if they can actually teleport off a planet. Or why not send someone with the skybreaker, some order that would be better fit for negotiations. But the whole situation just makes me suspicious that maybe a skybreaker was sent because its the only one the group they were working with had to send. 

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

What's interesting is that while the Scardrian East Cosmere Company idea seems likely, we could probably also apply that logic to the Rosharan.

We discussed it but I doubt Brandon would do the same thing for both worlds, and besides his "You can earn rank and Honor." or some such, really seems more Imperial, at least to me.

7 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

Now, I've not read RoW, but it seems to me that we can't assume Roshar will be an entirely united planet in Era 4. I know in sci-fi planets seem to become a single government once they reach space age, but I feel like Sanderson will subvert that and be somewhat more nuanced. With that in mind, I don't know that we can say the radiant represents Roshar or even just the skybreakers.

Possible, and something I'd really like to see.

8 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

I'm also wondering, why a skybreaker? They don't exactly seem like they'd make good diplomats. The reasons I can think of is that they have access to gravitation, and thus can travel through space more subtly than a ship could. Especially if the color of the stormlight is off because the radiant has some function in the plate that makes it's investiture more difficult to detect (basically, purple = stealthmode.) So why a skybreaker over a windrunner? Maybe just because of their experience with law being useful for detailing a contract or something. But that still feels off. Wouldn't an elsecaller be the more logical choice? At least if they can actually teleport off a planet. Or why not send someone with the skybreaker, some order that would be better fit for negotiations. But the whole situation just makes me suspicious that maybe a skybreaker was sent because its the only one the group they were working with had to send. 

If it is an imperial system it is likely to be highly centralized and so people who can't disobey, like someone who would be stranded on an alien world, would naturally be given higher status, or be given more critical missions. Additionally they couldn't take someone with them(Maybe) because you would need shardplate to survive out their which can't be lashed. They probbably have spacesuits but to last the full journey would be beyond them. Additionally the culture might favor someone who follows a rigid code at all times.

[Pattern]

On 18.11.2020 at 5:22 AM, Jozomby said:

+1 to the skybreaker, also because of the flying.

I wonder if the box used with the shard gun was some sort of ammo pack, to get over the issue with the spren needing to stay in a single piece.  Maybe physical bullets, or maybe just investiture.

My (outlandish) guess for the ammo pack is it contains Shades from Threnody. Just to get the shade gun into play. Sprengun shoots shades at enemy. Yay!

22 hours ago, HSuperLee said:

Especially if the color of the stormlight is off because the radiant has some function in the plate that makes it's investiture more difficult to detect (basically, purple = stealthmode.)

RoW:

Spoiler

The blueish-violet color created Warlight vibes in me.
Might be I only imagined it while reading (must have been around the 20-hour-mark, so slight haluzinations can't be ruled out) - so some rereading Navani's Rhythm of War notebook chapters is in order for me now.

On the other hand, plate of different orders glow in different colors, don't they? Skybreaker's should be grey-ish though.

[Karger]

On 11/20/2020 at 4:44 PM, HSuperLee said:

I'm also wondering, why a skybreaker? They don't exactly seem like they'd make good diplomats. The reasons I can think of is that they have access to gravitation, and thus can travel through space more subtly than a ship could. Especially if the color of the stormlight is off because the radiant has some function in the plate that makes it's investiture more difficult to detect (basically, purple = stealthmode.) So why a skybreaker over a windrunner? Maybe just because of their experience with law being useful for detailing a contract or something. But that still feels off. Wouldn't an elsecaller be the more logical choice? At least if they can actually teleport off a planet. Or why not send someone with the skybreaker, some order that would be better fit for negotiations. But the whole situation just makes me suspicious that maybe a skybreaker was sent because its the only one the group they were working with had to send. 

I think it might be a trust thing.  Given the large number of possible temptations and risks involved in having an agent abroad having someone who you know will stick to protocol, never put you in a situation where you are in legal violation, and will complete the mission with exactness would be valuable. 

[teknopathetic]

So how did they solve the problem of getting Radiants off world? We have multiple WOBs saying a Radiant would eventually be pulled to much if they went too far on the physical and/or cognitive realms. We also know through WOB that spren in gems would also be pulled in the same way.

My weird idea? Roshar is gone and whatever gods remain are in space now. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by teknopathetic

[Karger]

1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

So how did they solve the problem of getting Radiants off world? We have multiple WOBs saying a Radiant would eventually be pulled to much if they went too far on the physical and/or cognitive realms. We also know through WOB that spren in gems would also be pulled in the same way.

I don't know if traveling through the PR would work the same way for a CS.  Either way they must have solved it somehow.