Alpharho

[Part 2 spoilers] Names in The Letter

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This new letter is good for Shard names. 4 new ones in two chapters, holy crap.

Invention, Whimsy, Mercy, and Valor

Invention seemsto fit in a creation quadrant along with Preservation and Ruin. Valor seems awfully close to Honor in my mind, so I'm curious what the differences will be as far as Intent goes.

I'm still digging into part 2, but I was so shocked at how many names we're getting.

Edited by Alpharho
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12 minutes ago, Alpharho said:

This new letter is good for Shard names. 4 new ones in two chapters, holy crap.

Invention, Whimsy, Mercy, and Valor

Invention send to fit in a creation quadrant along with Preservation and Ruin. Valor seems awfully close to Honor in my mind, so I'm curious what the differences will be as fast as Intent goes.

I'm still digging into part 2, but I was so shocked at how many names we're getting.

I didn't spot any other shards on my read through but you might have better luck than me. Sanderson really did just kinda go "hey, have some shard names".

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Spoiler

I came here just to talk about Invention, because that's litterally where I am in RoW right now. Im spoiling this just because if someone looks at my profile They'd find 'Invention' on it. 

Any thoughts on why Harmony might not be able to contact Invention?

On a unrelated note, I wonder how advanced Invention's shard world might be, if Invention does have a shard world. 

 

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6 minutes ago, eltruT said:
  Hide contents

I came here just to talk about Invention, because that's litterally where I am in RoW right now. Im spoiling this just because if someone looks at my profile They'd find 'Invention' on it. 

Any thoughts on why Harmony might not be able to contact Invention?

On a unrelated note, I wonder how advanced Invention's shard world might be, if Invention does have a shard world. 

 

Also using a spoiler
 

Spoiler

Tbh it could really depend on how the Shardic intent manifests. I could really imagine it as just being inventing anything rather than just things that work, are practical or the best option.
Part 5 ROW spoilers so using another spoiler.
 

Spoiler

We know it's not necessarily gonna be the scientific process of invention because Navani describe the mix of stormlight and lifelight as the Rythmn of Science, implying that if combined the Shardic intent would be Science.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Harkain said:
Spoiler

Tbh it could really depend on how the Shardic intent manifests. I could really imagine it as just being inventing anything rather than just things that work, are practical or the best option

 

Quote

Yeah, I really am interested in how Harmony's conversation with Invention went, and what holding the shard of Invention does to a vessel. I suppose we will have to wait to learn more about Invention, though I do want to know why Krhiss doesn't mention Invention in Arcanum Unbounded. 

 

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Tue quotes themselves:

Quote

Endowment at least responded to my overtures, though I have not been able to locate Invention again following our initial contact.

Whimsy was not terribly useful, and Mercy worries me. I do think that Valor is reasonable, and suggest you approach her again. It has been too long, in her estimation, since your last conversation.

...

That said, the most worrying thing I discovered in this was the wound upon the Spiritual Realm where Ambition, Mercy, and Odium clashed - and Ambition was destroyed. The effects on the planet Threnody have been ... disturbing.

Other Shards I cannot identify, and are hidden to me. I fear that their influence encroaches upon my world, yet I am locked into a strange inability because of the opposed powers I hold.

Let's stack these up against previously unknown Shards. We had four old clues:

Quote

Pagerunner

Four clues you've given over the years about unknown Shards:

1) One that wants to hide and survive.

2) One that's not on a planet, but not Ambition

3) One that Hoid would have taken

4) One that would have been used for Rithmatist

I'm not looking for a new clue. I'm wondering if there's any overlap between the clues. Are these four separate Shards? If not, which hints apply to the same Shard?

Also, since clue #3 was from before Ambition was revealed, was Hoid going to take Ambition? He certainly is an ambitious individual.

Brandon Sanderson

I'll tell you this--those aren't necessarily four different shards. But I do have to RAFO which one Hoid might have taken.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 27, 2018)

We've got a potential "Ingenuity" and "Wisdom/Prudence":

Quote

Questioner

If you were entrusted with a Shard of Adonalsium, which Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Ummm... Heh heh heh... maybe Ingenuity. 

Sofia signing (March 28, 2017)
Quote

Paleo

In May, in Germany, you told me that... or I asked whether Wisdom was a Shard, and you said it was or something like it, and that wisdom was close to an intent of a Shard, and you also told me that it has realized that survival isn't necessarily the most important thing for it. I wanted to ask whether it has realized that over time or was it from the get go?

Brandon Sanderson

Over time.

Paleo

Okay, so then naturally, my next question: Is it the survival Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Paleo

And then somebody actually came up with another good probable name. Is Prudence close?

Brandon Sanderson

Prudence sounds an awful lot like a Shard name. That's some excellent theorizing there.

Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

Invention seems pretty well-aligned with Ingenuity. It also sounds like Invention is hiding, which makes me think it's also Clue 1 and Clue 2 (survival-Shard and not-on-a-planet). Clue 3, Hoid's Shard, I suspect would be Whimsy. (I'd also bet it's the kite magic planet.) I haven't read Rhythmatist, so I don't know if Valor/Mercy/Whimsy would fit for there, either.

I think it's also notable which Shards weren't named in the letter. If you don't count Honor and Cultivation (which I don't think were explicitly named in the letter), you've only got three Shards not named, the hidden Shards. The most conspicuous is Autonomy, which I think ties in to the "encroaches" of Trell. I don't think anything else fits Prudence, so I'll tentatively label that as another Shard. Which leaves only one true unknown.

 

Oh, and one last thing. We get two clues about Cultivation. The first is a name, from the Alethi glyphs page: Korravellium Avast, She Who Brings the Dews at Dawn. Which may not be a Vessel name; it seems a little long, more like the Elithanithelitheia that I don't remember how it's spelled off the top of my head. But the other Light glyphs on the page mention Tanavast and Rayse in their descriptions, so it's gonna be something close to that. And second is the line from Hoid in Chapter 80 about dragons:"I know of just one on Roshar, and she prefers to hide her true form."

 

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1 hour ago, Pagerunner said:

I haven't read Rhythmatist, so I don't know if Valor/Mercy/Whimsy would fit for there, either.

I have read it, inventedness would fit very well for it. If not that then Whimsy or a dishardic world. There really couldn't be a better fit for the world than either of those two.

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Guys, if the thread says part two spoilers, you can't do full book stuff. I will temporarily suspend users who do this, including in this thread. That is very disrespectful. You would need to tag them as other people have done.

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7 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Clue 3, Hoid's Shard, I suspect would be Whimsy. (I'd also bet it's the kite magic planet.)

We have more than one WoB that says the shard Hoid would have taken up was Endowment. 

Whimsy is very ambiguous, if it means capricious then it is a terrifying shard. 

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On 11/17/2020 at 9:26 AM, Alpharho said:

 Valor seems awfully close to Honor in my mind

I felt the same but checking into it I found that the definition of Valour is not what I was expecting;

Quote

great courage in the face of danger, especially in battle.

So it does seem to be a very distinct thing in comparison to what I first thought the term meant. 

Also it has made me think about a thing mentioned in another epigraph in part 2 (hidden as a spoiler just to be safe.)

Spoiler

If memory recalls the author of the letter recommends approaching Valour again as they may help against Odium. If the above definition is it's intent then yeah it makes the most sense that out of all the shards Valour would be the most willing to jump in heads on.

 

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What about Mercy?

Spoiler

Apparently she was present during the confrontation between Odium and Ambition. Seemed like Ambition fled to her after Odium ripped chunks of power off her, then they both faced Odium together.

Harmony said that they worried him, perhaps damaged by Odium? Or as worrisome a Vessel as Ambition?

I agree with Paleo & Pagerunner that the Wisdom/survival/hiding Shard is the same, possibly the same as the one not on a planet,

Spoiler

as Harmony was not able to contact them again

 

So counting: Ambition, Devotion, Dominion, Honor, Cultivation, Odium, Endowment, Preservation, Ruin, Autonomy, Invention, Whimsy, Mercy, Valor, that leaves two Shards unknown to us.

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2 hours ago, Honorless said:

What about Mercy?

  Hide contents

Apparently she was present during the confrontation between Odium and Ambition. Seemed like Ambition fled to her after Odium ripped chunks of power off her, then they both faced Odium together.

Harmony said that they worried him, perhaps damaged by Odium? Or as worrisome a Vessel as Ambition?

 

Quote

The big thing I'd like to know about this is how Khriss doesn't know about it. Like, how many shards does she know? Does she know Mercy even exists? Also, I would guess that Mercy was, you know, merciful towards odium even though the vessel probably wasn't. 

 

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My primary response was along the lines of, "Four Shard reveals? Are you for real, Brandon?!" I mean it's been... how long, exactly, since the last Shard reveal, and now he gives us four? Wow! It seems to me that this is probably the book that is packed with the most information about the Cosmere in general so far, other than - maybe - Arcanum Unbounded.

Spoiler

This is my intake on the info:

Mercy was present at Ambition's Splintering. That's significant. Arcanum Unbounded did say that Ambition's Splintering did happen, but at a different place. The fact that it didn't say any more than that about the event definitely made me wonder if there was something else, and obviously I'm not the only one. I hadn't wondered if there was another Shard involved. I probably should have.

One thing I'm wondering - and it seems like I'm not the only one - is if Invention is the one who doesn't inhabit a Shardworld. This could be why Harmony couldn't find them again. That, however, raises another question: how is he communicating with the other Shards? Brandon did say that somebody is clouding information from him. 

Quote

Paladin Brewer (paraphrased)

I assume Sazed does not know the metal used in Lessie's spike because it's off-world, but Odium seems aware of Sazed/Harmony. Why is this?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Odium has a lot more knowledge that Sazed, he has had the power longer, and there are forces purposely trying to limit Harmony's knowledge.

Calamity San Antonio signing (Feb. 26, 2016)

How do the Shards communicate with one another? Vin and Ruin could speak directly to each other, but that was because of Preservation and Ruin both being Invested in the same area. They obviously can't communicate from anywhere, or Harmony would have been able to find Invention again. We know that Harmony has kandra worldhoppers about to gather information, and that the letters are somehow being delivered by some sort of worldhopper postal system. The Shards could use that, but I don't feel like they would need to. Maybe they have to bring their focus to some point in the Cosmere, and if another Shard is also focussing there, they can communicate? I dunno...

Harmony mentioning his contact with other Shards does bring up another thing I have always wondered about. How do the other Shards see him? We know Odium is angry with Sazed for holding two Shards and is frightened by him. If we are right about Trell on Scadrial being an Avatar of Autonomy - which we may be wrong about, but there is a mountain of evidence supporting that - then Autonomy probably isn't fond of him, worrying about the eventual space travel that we see in Sixth of the Dusk. Autonomy could be the one limiting his knowledge.

Mercy worries Harmony. What I want to know about Mercy is what about them worries Harmony. Their involvement in Ambition's Splintering, their actions, or just their attitude towards Odium, or towards Harmony? Also, if Odium was successfully able to kill both Devotion and Dominion at the same time, why didn't he finish off Mercy after killing Ambition?

Endowment, it implies, is willing to talk to Harmony, so that's something. Maybe she will be willing to fill him in on certain things.

Valor, according to Harmony, seems reasonable. One thing about her that seemed interesting to me: she felt that she wanted to have a conversation with Hoid. A lot of the other Shards, it seems, have had rocky histories with him: he said himself that he and Cultivation didn't get along (for some reason he calls her "Slammer"), and that he had a grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Endowment, judging by her letter, doesn't seem to care for him very much. When he stole the bead of lerasium in Secret History, Preservation almost seemed to have an "of course he would do something like that" attitude. This makes me wonder at what kind of person Valor's Vessel is.

Whimsy (judging by the name, the Vessel was probably a rather eccentric person, if that was what they wanted their Intent to be; I wonder what the magic system would be like). Could this be the Survival Shard? The other three mentioned - Valor, Invention and Mercy - don't seem to fit this like Whimsy does, but that's just me. Especially considering Harmony saying "Whimsy was not very useful," in that he could be referring to being "useful" as willing to fight Odium. However, one other important thing to note: was, not is. Is Whimsy dead? It could be Harmony referring to a past conversation, but words were specific: "was not very useful," not "did not seem very useful to me." This may be me just reading into this too much, but you have to admit, Whimsy being dead could very well be the case. Maybe they were another Shard that Odium killed before being imprisoned in the Rosharan System. Of course, however, there are still two remaining Shards, and the Survival Shard could be one of them. Or it could be Invention, if Invention is the one that doesn't inhabit a world. That Shard and the Survival Shard could be one and the same.

Another thing I wonder: does Harmony know anything about Frost?

And finally: Harmony is the one who seems willing to help Hoid. Frost is worried about interference. Endowment isn't worried. Autonomy doesn't care. The other Shards Harmony mentions are all unconcerned. Is it out of stubbornness? Personal biases? Distrust of Hoid? Or do they know something that Harmony doesn't? And, if that is the case, is Hoid's concern because he - in turn - knows something they don't?

Phew! That was much longer than I intended. Kinda like Brandon's books. (Cue canned laughter)

 

Edited by The White Wolf
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Rithmatist is not in the cosmere

 

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1 hour ago, phattemer said:

Rithmatist is not in the cosmere

 

Initially it was supposed to be.

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12 hours ago, Honorless said:

What about Mercy?

  Reveal hidden contents

Apparently she was present during the confrontation between Odium and Ambition. Seemed like Ambition fled to her after Odium ripped chunks of power off her, then they both faced Odium together.

Harmony said that they worried him, perhaps damaged by Odium? Or as worrisome a Vessel as Ambition?

I agree with Paleo & Pagerunner that the Wisdom/survival/hiding Shard is the same, possibly the same as the one not on a planet,

  Reveal hidden contents

as Harmony was not able to contact them again

 

So counting: Ambition, Devotion, Dominion, Honor, Cultivation, Odium, Endowment, Preservation, Ruin, Autonomy, Invention, Whimsy, Mercy, Valor, that leaves two Shards unknown to us.

I'm inclined to think that Mercy helped Odium. I'm getting serious "euthenasia superfan" vibes from her. It would be a perfect twist on what is normally a virtue.

The one that is hiding I feel like must be Invention, because Sazed said he hasn't been able to find him...seems like an intentional "he's hiding" thing.

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Quote

Valhalla (paraphrased)

Did Odium Splinter all the Shards for the same reason?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. Some Shards he Splintered because he feared the Shard itself, and some Shards he targeted because he feared the Vessel. He was working his way down his list in order of the Shards and Vessels he felt would be most dangerous to his plans until he got stuck on Roshar.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2016)

Bet Whimsy is last on the list, lol

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22 hours ago, Honorless said:

Bet Whimsy is last on the list, lol

I still can’t get over the fact that whimsy is an actual intent for a shard. Highlight of the book.

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Invention...

My soul is broken. Innovation is so much more suited to the Intent. 

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On 11/20/2020 at 7:20 AM, Innovation said:

Invention...

My soul is broken. Innovation is so much more suited to the Intent. 

Oooooof

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5 hours ago, Dreamspren said:

Oooooof

A shardic-sized F :(

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Hey just so you guys know, I asked the questions about the survival shard and the shard not on a planet. They are NOT the same shard. I was very clear with Brandon. They are two seperate shards. I think the one that wants to hide is perhaps Invention. Whimsy seems interesting as a shard, kinda like it would enjoy being different from the others. I think that is the Shard not invested in a planet.

Edited by Dawnshard
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